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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • bug4bug4 Posts: 370
    Certainly can't blame you for testing the full limits of a car on a test drive. But, you fella's are the exact reason I refuse to buy a new car that has even been test driven. Kudos to dealerships that have special cars dedicated to test driving. That's the best of both worlds . . you get to really test the car, then hop into your new car that has never been abused!
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    Why not try passing them?

    Uh, because it's illegal on a two lane road with double yellow lines! And it's also very dangerous when the roads are very hilly and winding. Kind of makes it hard to see if someone is coming the other way. Nice try though.

    Oh I forget, you just can't what with your lame duck engines Enjoy those taillamps.

    Sorry. Don't drive the 6 anymore. Want me to try and pass you with my Mustang GT? Don't worry, you'll only see the taillamps for a second or two then they'll just be little red dots on the horizon. Tends to make the feeling of embarassment easier to deal with when it doesn't last long to begin with. Oh, and I'll even perform that pass with my wife, two boys, and some groceries in the car too. :P
  • "Uh, because it's illegal on a two lane road with double yellow lines! And it's also very dangerous when the roads are very hilly and winding. Kind of makes it hard to see if someone is coming the other way. Nice try though"

    Even if you did try; you wouldn't be able to.

    "Sorry. Don't drive the 6 anymore. Want me to try and pass you with my Mustang GT? Don't worry, you'll only see the taillamps for a second or two then they'll just be little red dots on the horizon. Tends to make the feeling of embarassment easier to deal with when it doesn't last long to begin with. Oh, and I'll even perform that pass with my wife, two boys, and some groceries in the car too."

    I thought we were discussing mid size cars. As for the GT, sure its a powerful car, but its not a part of this discussion. if you do wnat to get into that game, I could take you in your GT with your wife et al in my 330i, your choice of switchbacks. As for taillamps, mine glow progressively, so you will get a chance to observe them. Cmon, this is just 'mine is bigger than yours' stuff. Concentrate on midsize cars.
  • "Well stated, and I fully agree. It seems that some others can't say the same though... "

    Easy preaching - difficult to practice when it comes to oneself. Aren't you the one who called the Camcords 'coma inducing' after clubbing them togehter? Do you think they handle alike? How can you club their ride/handling togehter?
  • 'They may be minuscule to you, but not to me, and to the many other auto journalists and drivers that have tested the Accord and the 6 back-to-back"

    Most testers have said the difference is in favor of the 6 (a majority of them call it small and then pick the Accord as the overall winner). I have never said anything different and have conceded that to the 6.

    However, does that mean that the Accord is a boat and coma inducing?
  • "wow...7 consecutive posts in a row! that's got to be a record...someone's feathers must have been ruffled "

    Just haven't been able to post/view my favorite forum for a long time so checked in last night.

    I have nothing against you being happy with your car for whatever reasons you choose, and I fullt respect your choice. However, when someone comes back and calls one of the cars I loved, a 'coma inducing' car (not directed at you); sure it does get to you. And then I have someone bragging he can pass an Accord in a Mustang GT. Wow, what a revelation!

    Well, good to be back.

    I
  • However, when someone comes back and calls one of the cars I loved, a 'coma inducing' car (not directed at you); sure it does get to you. And then I have someone bragging he can pass an Accord in a Mustang GT. Wow, what a revelation!

    Hey, as they say: "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."

    And yeah, I may have bundled the CamCord as coma-inducing, but then again, it's MY OPINION. The Camry (SE not included) surely fits that description. And while I have yet to try out a '08 Accord, I doubt that the larger (and heavier) car can improve on the '03-'07, let alone the excellent handling (IMO) the late '90's had before that.

    So maybe "coma-inducing" is a little harsh, but I haven't taken any shots to the 6 personally...
  • bug4bug4 Posts: 370
    I guess each car gets pegged with a stereo-type. But, some of those stereo-types seem to be born out by the consumer reviews for the Camry and Accord. Take a look -- new Camry owners seem to focus on interior amenities, size and comfort. Of course, so do Accord owners. But, Accord owners also seem to note such things as steering response, engine power, ride and handling quality. Interesting . . . .
  • Even if you did try; you wouldn't be able to.

    I didn't realize you had some special one-off turbo-charged JATO powered version, because if you are talking about the EX 5spd manual I have been driving for the last few months, I think you are having a memory issue after driving your BMW too much.

    As fun as this bench racing "mine is bigger than yours" conversation is, its really not supported either way. In fact, it puts me to sleep almost as fast as the Accord.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Weight adds up quickly for a lot of reasons. It has little to do with physical size of the vehicle itself (which goes by EPA definition). Even a Rabbit can tip the scale around 3200 lb. Saturn Aura goes to 3630 lb and it will be safe to assume it will weight even more if there were additional options to be added.

    Compared a base Accord with MT (LX) with fully featured four cylinder version with AT (EX-L/NAV) might make for a good example. The curb weights:
    Accord LX (MT): 3230 lb
    Accord EX-L (AT): 3433 lb

    That is a whopping 203 lb difference. Just by looking at the spec sheet, I can account for almost 75% of it.
    Larger Wheels: 60-70 lb
    AT versus MT: 60-70 lb
    Moon roof/NAV: 30-35 lb

    Besides these, and while safety features are standard and there is no difference, there is in terms of NVH handling (noise insulation, potentially more advanced engine mount), tweaks to chassis for additional rigidity etc.

    One might think that going from 16” wheels on LX to 17” wheels should not make for a big difference. But it does. In fact, Accord’s new 17” rim is wider (17x7.5) to accommodate P225/50/R17 tire than the 17” rim used in last year’s Accord (17x7) that accommodated P215/50/R17 tire. Equipped with OEM tires, each of the new size weighs 7-8 lb more, and that adds up to 30 lb for that small increase. It might be at least twice that compared to the smaller rim (16x6.5) in LX trim.

    Cars today are also far safer than before. And safety goes beyond just hitting a wall. Complex ways are being devised to accommodate everything from offering greater safety to pedestrians to being able to make colliding vehicle more compatible.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    Translating this whole situation into the midsize segment and getting a little closer to on topic, the Fulans (and 6s to some degree) are in the same neighborhood weight and size wise as that Five Hundred

    The difference in weight between a Ford 500 (when it was still named that and had the 3.0 see this link for the weight: link title) and an automatic Mazda6 w/ leather and moonfoof is 340 pounds, which to me is not in the same neighborhood.

    And to me, the engine in the Mazda6 sounds very smooth with a touch of a growl to it (although not as smooth as the Accord or Altima v-6's). Perhaps what you were hearing was different tuning in the 500 or maybe the engine laboring to carry much more weight? Mazda did tweak the engine a bit too, so perhaps that's why your descriptions don't really match what I've experienced. I mean, someone could say that after driving a Honda Pilot they should diss the TL just because their engine and chassis are similar, but I think that criticism would be misplaced because the weights are so different.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    May be getting a little touchy here but I don't ever recall saying or even implying that cars that shared similar platforms were necesarily identical. In fact I said something about a few more inches (stretching) and some different suspension (tighter) pieces talking about the differences betwen the Fulan and 6, Another good example of this might be the M35 and Altima/Maxima which are all FM platofrm cars that even use the same base engine, but the M35 specifically is quite a different car isn't it?
    As long as you seem to be getting on GM for simply relabeling what exactly do you think Ford is doing with the Milan or Chrysler is doing with the Charger. Etc. Etc. IMPO I think the Milan is a far better looking ride than the Fusion, simply replacing some taillights and junking the 'razor blades'. Not to mention the interior which struck me as an upgrade (as in typical for the Mercury nameplate) Again IMPO I think the car to own from FoMoCo in this size class has to be the Lincoln MK if for no other reason than the engine - if only it wasn't so overpriced.
  • "Hey, as they say: "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."

    And yeah, I may have bundled the CamCord as coma-inducing, but then again, it's MY OPINION. The Camry (SE not included) surely fits that description. And while I have yet to try out a '08 Accord, I doubt that the larger (and heavier) car can improve on the '03-'07, let alone the excellent handling (IMO) the late '90's had before that."

    Did you read my full post about taking the heat or racing the Mustang? I can damn well stick to my guns in my 330i; GT or no GT. And remember, there is always a faster car out there, no matter what you drive.

    Secondly, you still haven't answered my question - do you think the camry and accord drive alike? And really, when you say an accord is 'coma inducing' with respect to the Mazda 6; you really are in la la land.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I will madmit to never driving the V6 6, but I do understand that there is a degree of 'refinement' there perhaps is missing in the Ford.
  • "I didn't realize you had some special one-off turbo-charged JATO powered version, because if you are talking about the EX 5spd manual I have been driving for the last few months, I think you are having a memory issue after driving your BMW too much.

    As fun as this bench racing "mine is bigger than yours" conversation is, its really not supported either way. In fact, it puts me to sleep almost as fast as the Accord."

    Sorry, a stock Mazda 6 (4 or 6 cyl versions) does not show a set of heels to a comparable Accord. At least not yet. Maybe once the 3.7 Mz6 comes in. Secondly, I was not bench racing; just got someone boasting of a GT in a midsize comparison. As I said before, there will always be a faster car out there; so it makes sense to stay on course if you are comapring similar cars. Third, if an Accord puts you to sleep, anything short of an M3 of RS4 will wake you up; let alone a Mz6
  • Secondly, you still haven't answered my question - do you think the camry and accord drive alike? And really, when you say an accord is 'coma inducing' with respect to the Mazda 6; you really are in la la land.

    Okay, fine, you win! The almighty Accord is superior to every other vehicle out there, from a Ferrari to Yugo...

    Heaven forbid someone in this discussion have an opinion that's NOT in praise of the Accord and Camry, or they be accused of being in "la la land", despite the fact that my hard-earned $$$ goes to buy what I prefer to drive!

    And for the record, I NEVER said that the Accord and Camry drive alike, they IMO don't handle as well as the 6. Whether or not it's "coma-inducing" or not is something for ME to judge FOR MYSELF. If you don't agree, then fine, but stop taking everything so personally and let it go already! :sick:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    And yeah, I may have bundled the CamCord as coma-inducing, but then again, it's MY OPINION.

    We are all entitled to our opinions here. I will agree with you on this one. Maybe I am a bit bias, since I own a Mazda6 4cyl 5-speed, but, I surely do not find it dull, or lacking in the power department. With the say it is geared, especially at higher speeds, the car responds and handles better overall then any in its direct class, IMO. Now, if the 4cyl and V6 are not enough for some, thats why there is a 270hp 280tq engine in the Mazdaspeed6 that is anything but dull...
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    And for the record, I NEVER said that the Accord and Camry drive alike, they IMO don't handle as well as the 6.

    Not to but in to your heated debate, but, it is not a matter of opinion that the 6 handles better then the Accord and Camry, it's a fact, whether he likes it or not :shades:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    May be getting a little touchy here but I don't ever recall saying or even implying that cars that shared similar platforms were necesarily identical. In fact I said something about a few more inches (stretching) and some different suspension (tighter) pieces talking about the differences between the Fulan and 6

    It really sounded like you were talking about the companies (Ford and Mazda) in general, not just talking about the Mazda6 and Fusion/Milan. I now understand what you were trying to say.

    post #7199 "if Ford and Mazda are different companies then why are they producing cars that except for a few inches and some suspension bits are otherwise identical"

    Look at the Saab 92X /92AeroX and Subaru Impreza/WRX..those are relabeled vehicles. Most GM vehicles have been and are relabeled. I was not just picking on GM, I was commenting on what someone said. The "Big 3" in Detroit are known for
    "rebadging" vehicles.

    Again IMPO I think the car to own from FoMoCo in this size class has to be the Lincoln MK if for no other reason than the engine - if only it wasn't so overpriced.

    I think the MKZ is right on par with others in its class in terms of price. I have sat in one, but, never driven. I have heard some pretty good things.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    thought we were discussing mid size cars.

    The Mustang is classified as a mid-sized coupe and therefore competes with, or at least did before, the Accord coupe. If one is fair game then the other has to be too.

    As for the GT, sure its a powerful car, but its not a part of this discussion. if you do wnat to get into that game, I could take you in your GT with your wife et al in my 330i, your choice of switchbacks.

    You might want to rethink that. Unless you have a new 335i, and not a 330i, then you're sadly mistaken. Even a new Accord V6 is faster than your 330i to 60. Handling wise the GT and 330i are pretty much even. I think your thinking of the last gen Mustang or something. I think the new Camry and Accord could even give those a run for their money now.
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