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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • I looked at Subaru's and it turned me off with the Premium fuel in the turbo 4. Premium gas is 40 cents more a gallon. I could understand premium gas in a performance car like the 300 HP Subaru but not in a family sedan.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,616
    i didn't see a subaru in the video. i doubt if i could fit in the back seat of a Leg.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,616
    normal service interval is 5k, "special" service schedule is 3k.
    i'm ok with 5k, since the tires get rotated and i think they last a lot longer that way.
  • i doubt if i could fit in the back seat of a Leg.

    Yeah, thankfully I don't have to sit back there so I wouldn't really know. That and I seem to associate with a lot of "vertically challenged" types so issues like the height adjustable seat and visibility are more important than rear seat leg room.

    While not particularly on topic, ours is a body style not even offered by the Fusion, a wagon. I am content with a 165hp, manual transmission, AWD, 20k wagon that gets 25 city and 30 hwy. Oh, and 2500lbs of towing capacity for those times when you need to carry a little extra (something the current Fusion can't do at all).
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,616
    that's the last tradeoff i want to make with 2 teenage drivers. to me, subaru turbo's are deathmobiles for teenagers and there is plenty of local evidence to back that up.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Unfortunately so are Honda's and CTS'. Teenagers don't need a turbo, unfortunately to get into trouble. But that really wasn't the point. If you are buying a car for a teenager, no car is really safer than the other, as some of the unfortunate accidents that received national headlines in the last few years, proved.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,616
    we share cars in my family. i have no need for a sub 6.0 0 to 60 car, so i am not buying one. the fact that my kids don't have something like that to drive is a good thing.
    if you don't think safety between different vehicles is not a variable, i guess we are going to disagree.
    my kids usually drive a 4wd explorer v8 with a big sound system, a good combination for them between what they want and what they need.
    a 4wd subaru turbo with a big sound system would be a bad thing.
  • that's the last tradeoff i want to make with 2 teenage drivers. to me, subaru turbo's are deathmobiles for teenagers and there is plenty of local evidence to back that u

    I think you are confusing the Legacy GT with the Subaru Impreza WRX STI. The turbo on the Legacy is smooth and linear.
  • my kids usually drive a 4wd explorer v8 with a big sound system

    Oh good a truck with high center of gravity...at least with that V8 they can't afford to drive it too much anyway. :P
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    My friends child was a passenger in a truck based SUV, similiar to the explorer and wound up upside down and having to be extracated by the jaws of life. If you think your kids are safe, in a big truck based SUV you are sadly mistaken. I'd rather have then driving a Legacy with a turbo with good handling. As you said we can agree to disagree.
  • oldcemoldcem Posts: 309
    I understand. I searched out a bit farther, because I travel for business a lot. I have no problem shopping cars in Lexington, Ky., Pittsburgh, Pa, or Richmond, Va.. In 03, I bought a new car in Lexington, KY. because they beat the local dealer by $6500. Drove about 170 miles out to get it. The Aura is a great car, but, the ones around you are no bargain. The Sonata sounds like your best choice. I looked at a new one in March, but, the best deal I could get was $2K higher than the Saturn.

    Good Luck
    OldCEM
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    While not particularly on topic, ours is a body style not even offered by the Fusion, a wagon.

    That is only because the market tells them it is likely more profitable to call the wagon a "crossover", which they chose to name "Edge".
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    The Edge is roughly a half-ton heavier than the Fusion. It's no more a "Fusion wagon" than the CR-V is a "Civic wagon."

    If it were, I'd own one.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    That is true, you trade in some fuel economy for sub 6 second performance and handling.

    I don't see where you're getting the sub 6 sec performance for the V6 but I'll at least give you the handling. MT estimated 6.5 secs to 60 but I couldn't find an actual test anywhere. However the AWD Fusion is quite a bit less expensive to buy than a V6 Legacy so I would expect nothing less from a car that starts at around $32k. In fact, I would expect much more.

    I do like the Legacy but the AWD Fusion is not far behind in performance and is a much better bargain all around. The blown I4 Legacy models are a different story though.
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    Umm, there is no such thing as a V6 or an I4 in the Legacy. . .
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Do a search for 0 to 60 times.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Ah, but the CR-V is a Civic wagon...which is not meant to be taken literally. What I mean that it is more profitable to make and sell "crossovers", like the Edge and CR-V, than it is to sell conventional wagons of similar size. (This could be changing with the high gas prices)

    The Edge substiutes for the would-be Fusion wagon. The CR-V does the same for the would-be Civic wagon.

    An example...buyers were willing to pay substantially more for a Ford Escape than they were for a Focus wagon. This despite the greater cargo capacity of the Focus Wagon.

    If there were a conventional Fusion wagon, they would not be able to price it at $4k more than the sedan as they do with the Edge.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,616
    the fusion is actually longer, has a much larger turning circle than the explorer, and can't hold 7 people but i don't hold that against it.
    my personal experience has been that suv's are pretty safe in big collisions.
    i do feel the fusion gets more respect than the focus that it replaced, i. e. other cars pulling out from side streets/parking lots in front of you or cutting you off on the highway because your vehicle is smaller.
    speaking of Legs, i have a story. One time i was driving my kids to their after school lessons in my suv. It was still light, but getting towards dusk. a few cars ahead of me was an outback wagon. a cadillac shot out of a driveway from the left, realized there was a car in the lane, braked hard but hit the subie in the left front. the subie went off the travel lane to the right and hit a telephone pole. the driver's door popped open and the driver fell into the road in front of me.
    my kids eyes were huge and i was so nervous, it took me 3 times to dial 911.
    i think the caddie driver saw my suv, but not the car in front of me, it was black.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,616
    my kids don't pay for gas unless they are working(summer). not having to pick drop them off and pick them up from after school stuff is worth it.
    both my kids now drive with the gas mileage readout displayed.
    i told them i would appreciate 16+.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    Do a search for 0 to 60 times

    I searched Edmunds, C&D, and MT. None of them had a tested time, just estimates. If you have a link then post it, otherwise I really don't care. The Legacy V6 is overpriced IMO. Nice car, but we can do better at that price point.
  • the fusion is actually longer, has a much larger turning circle than the explorer, and can't hold 7 people but i don't hold that against it.

    Well, if you really want to be technical, with a payload of 1100 lbs, the Explorer can't hold 7 people either, unless they are quite svelte.
  • I searched Edmunds, C&D, and MT. None of them had a tested time, just estimates. If you have a link then post it, otherwise I really don't care. The Legacy V6 is overpriced IMO. Nice car, but we can do better at that price point.

    I don't there are reviews for the Legacy with the flat 6 because I don't think its a model that gets a lot of attention. Everyone either goes for the Legacy with the flat 4 or the flat 4 turbo.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Overpriced is in the eyes of the beholder, as you know. In my opinion the top of the line Legacy is the nicest car in the bunch and the fastest. With the turbo and AWD, it will blow the other vehicles away. But that really isn't the point, it's what you feel comfortable with at the price point you want with the features you want. Some people will trade fuel economy for performance, others won't. I've seen 0 to 60 times of about 5.7 for the turbo floating around the 'net. The Legacy comes with two engine choices, you pick the one you like.

    It's all about choices.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Well, if you really want to be technical, with a payload of 1100 lbs, the Explorer can't hold 7 people either, unless they are quite svelte.

    That is the funniest thing to me about SUVs, the minimal payload capacity of them. I once pointed out that our Windstar had a payload capacity of 1800 pounds to a guy whose SUV had an 800ish pound capacity...where's the utility? where's the sport? it is a vehicle, though.

    As for safety the data I have seen shows that for any particular weight range, they are not really any safer than cars for the occupants, while being far more dangerous to the rest of us on the road.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    I've seen 0 to 60 times of about 5.7 for the turbo floating around the 'net. The Legacy comes with two engine choices, you pick the one you like.

    That's great and all, but the discussion focused on the 6 cylinder model, not the blown 4. There are actually 3 engine choices if you count the blown 4 and NA 4 as two separate engines.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    Well, if you really want to be technical, with a payload of 1100 lbs, the Explorer can't hold 7 people either, unless they are quite svelte.

    The standard payload of the current gen Explorer is 1460 lbs. 4X4 models are 1510 lbs or higher depending on the engine.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    That's great and all, but the discussion focused on the 6 cylinder model, not the blown 4. There are actually 3 engine choices if you count the blown 4 and NA 4 as two separate engines.

    You are right 1+1+1=3.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,616
    there is a word that describes the 1100 lbs payload: underrated. :D
    i was pretty happy with how the fusion performed with 4 people plus luggage
    on it's one long trip, so far. first of many i think.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    You are right 1+1+1=3

    Some would think 2 though, and there's nothing wrong with that IMO, so I understand where you were coming from. ;) I was actually kind of surprised to see the various powertrain options for the Legacy though. I think there were like 5 or 6 because you can get the same engine with a 5-speed OR 6-speed MTX. Seems a little crazy!

    In all honesty though, I will replace our leased Explorer with something that has AWD come next Spring when the lease is up. I truly wish more of these mid-sizers had AWD. I like the Legacy OK, but I'm not in love with it. The Fusion is nice on the outside but the inside is a turn-off to me now. So unless the '10 Fusion wows me I'lll be getting another SUV or a CUV. I like the Sable too, but I don't want to buy a dead duck. :sick:

    Give me an AWD Mazda6, Altima, Accord, or a nicer Fusion and I'll be happier. Especially the 6.
  • checking back in...added a new post to the 16-20K sedan thread. Realized that the Accord and the comparison/suggestions on this thread were taking us in the wrong direction. Started our search with the Matrix and maybe a Scion..and was lead into the Sonata from the Elantra/Civic. Wrong way in terms of size. Thanks to all for the input.
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