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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    don't know about that - have 2 cars (both V6 and very quick by almost any standard) and I get the engines wound up to maybe 5 grand or so - almost every time I'm on that short hwy entrance ramp and need to be able to get from 30 to about 80 in a hurry.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    My wife has a 300 hp Aviator. She's never gone beyond 50% throttle - EVER. When I do it she starts screaming about the gas gauge or thinks we're about to wreck. The AVERAGE driver is scared of their vehicle and scared of acceleration.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'd bet you are the exception rather than the rule, however. I applaud you for it though. You USE the engine you bought, so you aren't constantly driving around with an extra liter of displacement under the hood.

    Personally, for the few times I need to really move, my '06 4-cyl pleases ME in how quickly it takes off (as far as 4-cylinder's go, the 2.4L in my 2006 Accord is darn quick relatively). I drive from the suburbs to downtown Birmingham, drive to work through city streets (over a small mountain) and back to school at night, before driving back home.

    I filled up my car yesterday - 13.7 gallons on 411.2 miles. That's 30.01 MPG in a midsize car that is as fast as I've ever needed or wanted, and is only 1 MPG shy of the highway rating in my much slower 1996 Accord, which averages between 26 and 27 MPG in the same commute. I am MORE than pleased. I'm glad you are too, cap'n.:)
  • I remember when I bought a "typical" economy car back in October 1970, a 60HP (yes, that's right 60 screaming horses!) front-wheel drive car - a Simca 1204. I got along just fine on compact and short freeway entrance ramps, as I actually accelerated through the entire entrance ramp, and entered the freeway at close to the prevailing speed. On the other hand, large Detroit iron with multiple times the HP of the Simca would lag behind or putter along on the entrance ramp - until they reached the freeway, and then it was pedal to the metal.

    In many cases, the driver, and the driver's technique and skill along with the car's handling, is more important than raw HP.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Well I did say "most" not "all"...besides don't you need to get over 6000 rpm to hit max HP :) ;) .

    BTW, the not wanting high rpms is not limited to V6 drivers, as was stated most are deathly afrain of high rpms. I get my 4 cylinder to redline from time to time, when I want maximum acceleration...but I am quite sure most do not ever come close.
  • I'm not saying people shouldn't buy V6's. I was just complaining about how irresponsibly most people drive when they have some power under the hood.

    Interestingly, mostly of these jack*** drivers will be in mid-size $25K to $40K cars. You'll notice most people driving expensive 300 to 400 HP German cars drive safely and courteously. Guess they feel they have nothing to prove.

    I'll be shopping for a car in the next few months and will probably get a V6. Personally, I'm happy as long as my avg fuel economy is above 20 MPG, and having the extra power for hills and passing definitely gives peace of mind.

    The smooth and quiet power delivery is nice too, although some newer 4cyls are very smooth/quiet as well.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The smooth and quiet power delivery is nice too, although some newer 4cyls are very smooth/quiet as well.

    Yes they are. I'd put my 2.4L 4-cyl in my Accord (2006) up against the 3.5L V6 in the Aura/G6/Impala or the 3800 in the Lucerne when comparing smoothness and bet the Accord would win. Mine sounds smoother and more turbine-like than the coarse pushrods from GM, despite having only 4, large bore cylinders to the 6 of the GM V6.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the not wanting high rpms is not limited to V6 drivers, as was stated most are deathly afrain of high rpms
    well, maybe so, but some of these engines, the 2GR Toyota and about any of Honda's 4 bangers can and do sound and feel good at those high rpms. Perhaps it is those engines that feel like 'somethin' is gonna blow' that perpetuate this adversion that you are talking about?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Yep. 99% of my driving involves sub-3000 driving (unless I'm cruising at 80 mph, which I do for most part :P). Entering freeways or high speed passing will always see hitting redline, which is a lowly 6300 rpm in my 98 Accord. But it is fun while it lasts (and that isn't for very long). I've estimated that car to go from a rolling 40 to 85 mph in 9-10 seconds.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    reminds me of my 1970 Buick Opel Kadett - 1100 cc's and also about 60 hp.
    Didn't feel it was dangerous or anything at the time (at that age I was just happy to have wheels), also 60hp and remember really having to row thru the gearbox to get anything out of it, FE if I remember right was unremarkable (in the 20s). My how far we've come - because now my Altima 3.5 will return better FE than that Opel AND blow the doors off of many of those 'muscle' cars of that time at better than double the FE...
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    would submit that 99% of everybody's driving is below 3000 rpm - even those who have the 4 bangers. 70mph on these V6s is usually closer to 2000rpm, and the 4s a few hundred higher. Only on harder acceleration are any of us ever going to see anything above even 5 grand, and as you say, it doesn't last long when you do.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    "I'll be shopping for a car in the next few months and will probably get a V6. Personally, I'm happy as long as my avg fuel economy is above 20 MPG, and having the extra power for hills and passing definitely gives peace of mind.

    The smooth and quiet power delivery is nice too, although some newer 4cyls are very smooth/quiet as well. "


    I agree with autoritiker's comments. Also, I live next to a busy street, and cars are always accelerating from the S curve when they pass by my driveway. When a 4cylinder Accord passes, you can definitely hear the engine winning. When a 6cylinder Accord passes, you hear nothing. I like that. The V6 engine makes the Accord feel and sound more luxurious, and more like a high-end car. While I definitely like (and use) the passing/merging power, there are other reasons that the V6 appeals to me.
  • My Aura XR is turning 1800 RPM at 70 MPH 2000 at 80 MPH and I am getting 30 MPG (910 miles on 30.08 Gal.) at 80 MPH. It sees the 7000 RPM red line every once in a while too.

    Hypothetically speaking, we are cruising at 80 MPH down I-5 through the central valley of California, side by side, my engine is turning 2000 RPM, What does your Honda's Tach. indicate?

    We come to the Grapevine and I drop to 5th and continue at 80 MPH up that 15 degree hill turning about 2700 RPM. What gear are you in, and are you still beside me going 80 MPH?
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    Here's some excerpts from a review from a European newspaper, the not very famous (in America) Belfast Telegraph.

    The revamped Mazda 6 is a real revelation: lighter and more agile, yet supple and serene.

    So here I am on a road I know well, in the hills and mountains just north of Nice. It's the kind of road that proves there's still enjoyment to be had from driving, and – if the car's not worthy of it – frustration can set in. It doesn't have to be some mega-money supercar, compromise-free sports car or honed hatchback for everything to gel; it simply has to be designed and engineered to work with the driver's commands and instincts, to involve the driver in the whole dynamic process.

    This new Mazda 6 does exactly that, to a wholly remarkable degree. It feels like an Alfa 159 should, or like a BMW 3 series would if it were, like the Mazda, front-wheel drive. It has the precision, fluidity, light-footedness and sixth-sense responsiveness that used to mark out the Peugeot 405 nearly two decades ago. Mazda has been annoying us for several years with the puerile "zoom-zoom" slogan, but the reality really matches the hype.

    All this driver-pleasing responsiveness would soon turn sour if the Mazda made a meal of poor road surfaces, but it proves supple and serene over bumps and waves. Quiet, too, with little roar from the road and engines – all three versions sampled – which are smooth, almost inaudible at idle and restrained when revved.

    It's clear, then, that huge thought has gone into how this car feels to drive. There's a Mazda philosophy here that is close to the one Peugeot used to follow. It says that a car's nose should be keen to turn and in doing so must load up the outside rear wheel, making the car feel "pointy". If you then ease the accelerator, the car's cornering line should tighten, but in a controlled, progressive way.

    This makes for great economy of effort on the part of the driver with great reward, because the driver is using the accelerator as much as the steering to guide the car. It makes a good Mazda feel vital, but never scary. And should the tail want to break free of grip when you brake hard on a tightening corner, there's the standard-fit ESP to rein it in. The brakes, too, have a natural, progressive response, and the gearshift has precise, satisfying movements.

    All three versions are designed to look Japanese, celebrating their origin instead of trying to hide it behind a cloak of Europeanism. There are references to swords, mist-shrouded mountains and attention to tiny details, all of which has the scent of baloney. It's a good-looking car, though, with a strong Mazda personality thanks to its bulging front wings and trademark front grille.

    There are some good details here. The horseshoe-shaped wind deflectors ahead of the front wheels are a simple aid to the Mazda 6's excellent aerodynamics (it has a drag coefficient of 0.27). Inside, there's a feeling of soft-touch quality that would befit a premium car.

    Gadgetry abounds. At night, a wave of light passes through the controls on the centre console on start-up, simulating a heartbeat, and some versions play (annoyingly) the three "zoom-zoom-zoom" notes on switch-off. The cross-functional network controls on the steering wheel handle all sorts of functions, including trip computer, stereo, sat-nav and air-conditioning, and Mazda claims a young person can master them in minutes. Older people, it concedes, might need up to a day.

    Those more senior souls will also hate the small odometer display, the difficulty of reading it made worse by the orangey-red used for all the digital read-outs. As Mazda expects most buyers to be over 50, that's a problem. "I can't read it, either," says Hajime Matsumura, project leader for the Mazda 6, with surprising frankness. But that's the only significant fault with his car, which otherwise might just be the new class leader. Surprised? So am I.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    forgot a picture...(again this is the Euro Mazda6, which may or may not look like the one we'll see here)

    image
  • would submit that 99% of everybody's driving is below 3000 rpm - even those who have the 4 bangers. 70mph on these V6s is usually closer to 2000rpm, and the 4s a few hundred higher. Only on harder acceleration are any of us ever going to see anything above even 5 grand, and as you say, it doesn't last long when you do.

    I typically stay under 3k on my daily commute but I have been getting in the mid-30s in my mixed hwy/city driving. I do like to leave it in 3rd from time to time getting on the freeway. The 2.2 in the old Accord and the 2.4 in the new one both seem to do a fine job. While I can't say I am pleased as punch with my '07, its FE and power have never been on my complaint list.
  • Great find, zzzoom6.

    It has the precision, fluidity, light-footedness and sixth-sense responsiveness that used to mark out the Peugeot 405 nearly two decades ago.

    Ahh, my father owned one of those 405s back when Peugeot was still in the states. It was a fun-to-drive car, and handled better than some "sports" cars of the day. If only it wasn't in the shop all the time (as most 405s were).

    It's clear, then, that huge thought has gone into how this car feels to drive.

    Too bad this feeling will be lost to MOST midsize sedan buyers.

    Inside, there's a feeling of soft-touch quality that would befit a premium car.

    I just hope this also translates to the cars we receive stateside as well.

    Those more senior souls will also hate the small odometer display, the difficulty of reading it made worse by the orangey-red used for all the digital read-outs. As Mazda expects most buyers to be over 50, that's a problem. "I can't read it, either," says Hajime Matsumura, project leader for the Mazda 6, with surprising frankness.

    First of all, I'm guessing that most buyers in the US will be below the age of 50, not above. Secondly, I prefer the orange-red display at night, since it's easier on my eyes than the horrendous green that I used to deal with. I guess we'll see how "difficult" it really is to read when the examples hit the showrooms.

    But that's the only significant fault with his car, which otherwise might just be the new class leader. Surprised? So am I.

    I'm not... :P
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    Well, in my 2003 Accord V6 I recall I'd be at about 2500 RPM at 80 MPH in top gear (5th gear in Auto).

    If hypothetically speaking, no one got in my way and I was able to maintain 80 MPH all the way up the grapevine, I don't believe a downshift would have been necessary; just a little extra press on the gas is all.

    The Aura XR seems to have excellent choices for 5th and 6th gear ratios..... Do you find most of the gears to be about 700 RPM apart at the same speed?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    My 1998 Accord turns about 3000 rpm at 80 mph (2300 rpm at 60 mph). Interestingly enough, a 2007 Civic I drove recently turned 2500 rpm (and we recorded 39.2 mpg at the end of 309 miles in a little more than 4 hours of driving (average driving speed was 75-76 mph).
  • If hypothetically speaking, no one got in my way and I was able to maintain 80 MPH all the way up the grapevine, I don't believe a downshift would have been necessary; just a little extra press on the gas is all.

    Not many cars have the torque to pull an overdrive gear up the grapevine. Even normal high gear is a struggle for many if they are not at or near the torque peak when they hit the bottom of the grade.

    I think 6th is about 7-800 RPM below 5th (high gear). 3-4 are pretty close together, about 600 RPM but the rest are closer to 1000 RPM

    Anyone with a Honda I-4 want to divulge there RPM's at 70/80 MPH?
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