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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    The stripped Accord VP on carsdirect in my zip code comes in at $17,958 with automatic. That is still $2000 more than I, and many others, paid for Mazda6i sport value automatic (which is much better equipped...about like the Accord SE).
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    I drove this before I drove a Civic stickshift, and haven't gone back to another since then.

    Being a manual tranny enthusiast I'd like to address this one. :D

    Every car we've bought in the past 11 years, 4 total, has been a stick. By far the worst shifter was in our '96 Civic (EX with VTEC) so I hope Honda has improved them since then. It had to be connected to the transmission with rubber bands. I have no other explanation for it. I'm sure the Civic you drove was much better than a truck but it was not a good experience for me.

    Actually I take that "by far the worst" comment back. The shifter in our '98 ZX2 was a bit rough too but not rubbery like the Civic's.

    Since then the cars we've bought have gone up in status I guess you could say. The Mazda6 shifter was pretty nice but it's clutch was tricky. Our Mustang's Tremec T56 is like heaven compared to any of the others however.

    Given the press the Accord shifters have received I don't doubt that the shifter is nice. Let's just be careful of how much praise we give to Honda transmissions though. I personally don't feel their track record is as stellar as we're sometimes made to believe and I'd bet others would agree. Besides, for about the same price of a loaded Accord you can get a MAZDASPEED6 with, from what I've read again, a shifter that's hard to beat.

    I do applaud Honda for offering an MTX with the V6 in the Accord though. Not many mfrs do that these days and it gives guys like me hope for the future. My kids are still small and fit in the Mustang just fine. Someday that will change and I'd like to have something great to fall back on at that time. :blush:
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    A manual transmission in a sedan?

    No thanks.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    I like the Gen 5 Accord too, it's my 2nd favorite after the Gen 3, and was more adventurous than the Gen 4 or Gen 6.

    I almost bought a Gen 5 LX coupe, but it was a little pricey and I leased a Mystique instead. Then right after I leased the Mystique, Honda put big lease incentives on the Accord. :cry:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Then right after I leased the Mystique, Honda put big lease incentives on the Accord.

    Go figure. The Mystique treated you well though, I imagine?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    That is interesting. But I have a correction to make to your Fusion price. I used your link and zip code, and after adding ABS and Trac Ctl, Moonroof, Heated Leather, the top-end sound system with Satellite Radio, the price was:

    Target Price with selected options: $23,385

    copied and pasted from CarsDirect. Not sure what options you left off of the Fusion, but the Accord has all of the above standard (I selected the AudioPhile sound system because Edmunds' stereo evaluation ranked that system below the Accord EXV6's standard system).

    $25,164 - $23,385 = $1,779.

    For $1,779 you get 23 horsepower, a smoother sounding engine, a more curvaceous interior without controls that can be found in many other models, Stability Control, and the best resale in its class.

    Of course, for someone who drives their car 20 years, doesn't want stability control, likes square interior designs and a more growling engine and don't mind lowest horsepower in the class (which is still plenty), the Fusion might just be money well-spent!

    It is all about personal taste and how you perceive the car. Scape asked me earlier to "quit trying to convince everyone that the Accord is cheaper than the Fusion."

    I've never said that, and if I have, please show it to me. What I'm trying to do is just encourage people to read the Honda Accord Prices Paid forum. People report prices, often times, their initial quotes. When there are high prices, such as $27,500 for an Accord V6 with Navigation, other buyers will step in and tell them they can do better.

    Of course an intial offer is going to be higher than one you negotiate, because some people are still convinced that Hondas go for near sticker price. Once people learn that they aren't, and enlighten the dealer to the knowledge they hold, the negotiation process takes a turn for the better (for the consumer).

    I've read that forum regularly, and the people getting the best prices are doing something very simple. Just bouncing internet quotes from one dealer to another until the best possible price is reached. No traveling from dealer to dealer is involved!
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The 4th gen Accord was the last generation that was 4cylinder only. Later generations became larger and heavier, to accomodate the V6 engines. The 4th gen Accord handled better than many sports cars. The 5th gen had a lot of style in it's profile, but I think the front and rear ends looked better on the 6th gen. Every generation had it's highs and lows.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The gain in weight was only about 100 pounds from Gen IV (2,738 lbs) to Gen V (2,855 lbs). That's the difference in one small person riding with you. Not too much heavier considering the added side-impact protection and extra airbag the Gen V added to the Gen IV.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The added weight was only one factor. The 5th gen also had a shorter wheel base, longer body, and softer suspension. They are all small increments, but they do add up.
  • exshomanexshoman Posts: 109
    A manual transmission in a sedan?

    No thanks.


    I'll take my sedan with a manual, thank you very much... :)

    Just because a car has 4 doors doesn't mean you can't have some fun with it.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    The reason you get a basic model(and the same VP with automatic is only $600-800 or so more) is that the chassis, suspension, brakes, and engine are all the same as the other models, or very close(the VP is missing a rear swaybar, but that's easy to add back in for a couple of hundred dollars - bolts right in).

    You can get the same shifting, engine, and driving experience as the 4 cylinder EX for a silly low price.

    Now, the clutch isn't fantastic. I'd rate it as good, though, or close to what you get in a typical European entry-level sport sedan. Definately a step up from everything else in this price-range, though. Not rubbery, not clunky. Smooth and adequate.

    That's worth $500 more right there in my book. And the automatic isn't bad, either - Honda makes nice autos. Far better than Hyundai or GM that's for sure.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Yet another person jumps and and shows you that Honda Accords are generally $2-3,000 more than a like optioned Fusion and you still don't believe it?
    "For $1,779 you get 23 horsepower, a smoother sounding engine, a more curvaceous interior without controls that can be found in many other models, Stability Control, and the best resale in its class. "

    a smoother sounding engine.. a more curvaceous interior.. All this in this paragraph is your opinion. You had better have higher resale value, YOU PAID MORE upfront..

    About the only thing Honda/Toyota are riding on right now is PAST reputation. As consumers start to figure out you don't have to pay the high prices Honda/Toyota demand it is going to mean bad news for these automakers in the future. I visit about 6 other forums each day. I can tell you I run across at least 1 or 2 people that have decided to change to either a Nissan/Mazda/Hyundia/Subaru or some other brand other than an Accord or Camry. Granted, it doesn't show on the sales charts. But these are NOT repeat buyers and that cannot be good for reputation.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    These are advertised prices of Accords from a very large auto dealer that holds about 5-8 different models/dealers.

    2007 Accord VP $18,209
    2007 Accord SE $20,088
    2007 Acccord SEV6 $21,648
    2007 EX-LV6 25,278 leather,moonroof,alloys NO NAV

    Another large dealer

    Accord Vp $18,188
    Accord LX 4cyl 5spd $19,588
    Accord SE $20,089
    Accord EX-LV6 - $25,278 NO NAV

    As we all know these are leaders and are the lowest price you are probably going to get from the dealer. Want the dealer names/numbers let me know and I'll e-mail them to you. Edmunds frowns on listing dealerships names/numbers.

    I also noticed Nissan is being very agressive with pricing of the new Altima. Altima 2.5 S for under $20,000 (automatics).. Very interesting..
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    One of the things that seem to negatively affect resale values seems to be how much a new car is discounted. Now that the Accord has discounts higher than I can ever remember would suggest that those who currently own an Accord will now have worse resales than before. I would think the coupes would be hit the worst since the styling differences between the current and next generation are the most dramatic with the next gen looking really good. Since most of the styling on the new sedan still appear to be on the sedate side like the current model, I doubt the style differences will result in a extra hit in negative resale.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    It is all about personal taste and how you perceive the car. Scape asked me earlier to "quit trying to convince everyone that the Accord is cheaper than the Fusion."

    Yes, and many people's personal taste would be that the Fusion (or Milan or Mazda6) is a better looking car, and/or the base radio is fine and/or they don't want a moonroof and/or ...

    I would not have any interest in these loaded up V6 models, myself. I only even looked at the pricing of them, because I was surprised at how small a difference someone was finding in CA. To me 200+ HP is overkill for these cars, the 150 or so in the I4s is adequate and I don't want things like leather seats and moonroofs.

    I do understand that you have not claimed Accord is cheaper. The new one does look to be a better looking car (to me) than the current one. I did not give the current one much consideration because of the combination of it's unappealing appearance and price of at least $2000 more than other cars I liked.

    Same deal with the Altima. It is pricier than some of the other choices and I don't happen to like the way it looks, so I did not give it much consideration...in addition I found the seat to be uncomfortable.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I can tell you I run across at least 1 or 2 people that have decided to change to either a Nissan/Mazda/Hyundai/Subaru or some other brand other than an Accord or Camry. Granted, it doesn't show on the sales charts. But these are NOT repeat buyers and that cannot be good for reputation.

    So obviously just as many (or more) people are changing from these other brands to Accord/Camry. These are potential repeat buyers down the road. People are realizing that Camry/Accord are worth the extra initial cost.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Yes, and many people's personal taste would be that the Fusion (or Milan or Mazda6) is a better looking car, and/or the base radio is fine and/or they don't want a moonroof and/or ...

    Exactly what I said. :) My perfect car is certainly not yours, or elroy's, or pat's, etc...

    I do understand that you have not claimed Accord is cheaper.

    Thank you. If only everyone else would quit putting words in my mouth! :) Accord are in fact more expensive. I'm through responding to the person who keeps trying to skew what I've said. Your post hsa both credence AND substance. How refreshing! :shades:

    The new one does look to be a better looking car (to me) than the current one. I did not give the current one much consideration because of the combination of it's unappealing appearance and price of at least $2000 more than other cars I liked.

    I certainly agree that the new model appears (at least at this point) to have more style than the current 5-year old model. Of the top 3 high-points I've found out of my 06 Accord, exterior style wouldn't be one of them (although I think it is nice looking, it isn't "beautiful"). The best attributes I've found were:

    Interior design/ergonimic layout. The inside looks like a car costing more, to me.

    Powertrain. I have the 2.4L, and that engine is so sweet all the way to redline! Lots of pep, and fuel economy that belies its size and pep.

    Suspension tuning. This one surprises me (in a good way) the more miles I drive in it. The Accord had the right balance of sporty handling and smoothness on the bumpy interstate for my tastes. Tauter than most midsizers, but softer than the Fusion and 6.

    Since I spend most of the time INSIDE and DRIVING the car, these were three very important attributes to me. Lots of standard safety features were a bonus.

    (I won't mention the individual features of the car, because just about all of those are available on other models in the class as well, so there would be no point).
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    I also noticed Nissan is being very agressive with pricing of the new Altima. Altima 2.5 S for under $20,000 (automatics).. Very interesting..

    fairly hard to find one more than $100 or so under 20k. without options or destination, the invoice is almost 19100. just the freight charge will put it at 19700. add in floor mats and splash guards (which i've never seen a car without) and your up to 20k. Not very agressive to me.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Just because a car has 4 doors doesn't mean you can't have some fun with it.

    Shifting gears is fun?

    Maybe in a S2000 or a 330i OK, but in my daily driver - no way.
  • tallman1tallman1 Posts: 1,874
    Maybe in a S2000 or a 330i OK, but in my daily driver - no way.

    I realize that I'm in a minority considering how few manuals are sold but I wouldn't want to be without one. And that includes driving in heavy traffic! :)
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    I think it depends on what your daily drive is. if your daily drive involves stop and go city traffic, then I'd rather have an auto. ridding a clutch for 45 min without ever reaching 3rd is a pain in the [non-permissible content removed].

    In general though, I think a stick is always more fun to drive
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    2007 Accord VP $18,209
    2007 Accord SE $20,088
    2007 Acccord SEV6 $21,648
    2007 EX-LV6 25,278 leather,moonroof,alloys NO NAV

    Another large dealer

    Accord Vp $18,188
    Accord LX 4cyl 5spd $19,588
    Accord SE $20,089
    Accord EX-LV6 - $25,278 NO NAV
    ****
    Cars Direct Pricing - WITH AUTOMATIC AND DELIVERY INCLUDED!.
    Accord VP - CarsDirect Price: $16,883
    Accord LX - CarsDirect Price: $18,246
    Accord SE - CarsDirect Price: $18,884
    Accord LX V6 CarsDirect Price: $22,054
    Accord EX V6 CarsDirect Price: $23,762

    This completely blows a hole in the "too expensive" argument. Cars Direct isn't even as low as you can haggle, either. Perhaps you should shop around more? These are selling for significantly less than MSRP.

    Also, Cars direct adds the delivery into the price, and these all included automatic.
    Your dealer: Accord LX 4cyl 5spd $19,588
    Cars Direct: Accord LX 4cyl 5spd $16,928 (comparable price, since those weekend ads almost never include delivery) Even with delivery, it's $17,523. $2000 LESS.

    Accord VP 5Spd : CarsDirect Price: $16,161
    http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?zipcode=91107&acode=USB70HOC011A0&restor- - e=false

    No haggling, guaranteed price. If your dealer is quoting a dime more than Cars Direct, shop elsewhere.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    I really liked the ride and handling on the Mystake. Also it was a 5-speed stick with ABS and traction control, a very rare combination on a moderately-priced I4 car in 1995. But it was in the shop many times for various glitches and recalls. And the residual was ridiculous. So I didn't buy it after the 2-year lease ran out.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Maybe the other brands are GM, Ford & Chrysler.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I've always heard similar things about that car (the Contour, anyways). Based on what I've read (I've never driven one), the Contour offered dynamics similar to the Fusion, which is a good thing if you actually ENJOY driving :).

    A 5-speed manual with ABS and traction control is a big deal to find on a 4-cylinder car NOW, much less 1995. What a find!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    Yes, although one of the things that always impressed me about the Gen 3 Elantra was that it offered that same combination (stick, ABS, traction) at a very low price point.

    Maybe the reason the Contique had such a good blend of ride and handling was that it, like the Focus, was designed to be a "world car", e.g. sold in Europe also, in this case as the Mondeo. I liked the way the Mystake drove so much that I almost bought a V6 model when they were being phased out, because I saw some offered (loaded) for around $12k. But then I thought about all the shop time. Plus I never found a V6 5-speed in a color I liked, at the closeout price. :blush:
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    This completely blows a hole in the "too expensive" argument.

    Hmm...does this completely blow a hole in the Honda does not put incentives on the Accord and lower the resale value arguement too :surprise: . Isn't it a sign of a problem with future resale value for the Accord when (based on 4 cyl SE) it is discountred more than a Fusion in CA? The Accord SE is selling at about $3500 below MSRP, while the Fusion is at about $2300 below MSRP.

    There must be some sort of dealer incentive in CA, In my zip code, the Accord SE Automatic shows up at $19,946 on cars direct. The comparable Fusion SE with AT and ABS is at $18,349 and the comparable Mazda6 SVE with AT is at $17,840.

    It's not a "too expensive" argument (at least not from me), that would be a subjective judgement. The fact is the Accord costs more than a Fusion or Mazda6, to some it is worth the extra cost to others it is not. I'd have passed on the Accord, even if the price were the same as a Mazda6. However, if the Accord were $2000 less than the 6, then I would have surely given it more consideration than I did.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Isn't it a sign of a problem with future resale value for the Accord when (based on 4 cyl SE) it is discountred more than a Fusion in CA?

    Well, considering the Accord's resale is best-in-class and that rebates are being offered only now that it is due for a complete overhaul, I'm gonna say it sure doesn't seem to be a problem. I'm not trying to sell my Accord at the moment, so I'm not going to talk about something in detail that I really don't know about for sure.

    Those selling their Accords (2003-2007) should feel free to chime in and fill us in though. I'd be interested to know if the rebates are making that big of a difference in resale.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Cars.com established the Lifestyle Awards to recognize which vehicles were best suited for the lifestyle needs of today's car buyers. After an exhaustive analysis, the 2007 Honda Accord was named the Best New Car for Small Families. According to Cars.com, "The Accord is the most well-rounded midsize sedan — the class of choice for families who want out of SUVs and their high fuel costs. The Accord has it all: good gas mileage, predicted reliability, quality, comfort, resale value and crash-test results. It's even a little sporty. The four-cylinder should do the trick for most buyers, and the optional V-6 will please the rest. The Accord is a best-seller, and for very good reasons."
  • csandstecsandste Posts: 1,866
    Have a four cylinder Optima, and IMHO, this is the only compelling deal with Kia. Unless they are REALLY discounted, I'd buy the Sonata if I was interested in a V-6. There is very little power difference between the six and four with the Optima. All you get is an older engine that is more complicated, has a timing belt, and uses more gas. If you want fancy, Kia does put a four into the EX. I was able to get an LX with after market leather (which looks very good), and seventeen inch Michelins for sixteen grand. Other than power seats it gives up little compared to the EX.
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