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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Personally, I think an SUV buyer would never consider a Prius anyway, because they're not getting that "lord of the world" feeling from it.

    Anyway, Prius should be more properly compared to compact sales, not midsize. Unless you're willing to say that all midsizers are overpriced because they're so much more expensive than the Versa. Like Versa and Elantra, Prius is not a legitimate midsize car: it makes it to that EPA designation due to interior volume technicalities, but dimensionally they're compacts or subcompacts(the Prius is narrower than any compact out there, in fact). By dimensionally I'm looking at length, width, wheelbase, legroom, hip room, etc.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    For someone looking for mid-sized interior room (espcially a lot of rear leg room) and who doesn't mind having a car that is smaller outside and has less power than other mid-sized sedans, then the Versa comparison is valid. You compare cars that meet your needs, I'll compare cars that meet my needs, and in fact each buyer will do that comparison relative to his/her own needs and wants. For example, some people might not like a mid-sizer like the Accord because it's TOO big outside. I've read those kinds of complaints in Town Hall and elsewhere. Likewise, some (like you) find a car like the Prius too small for your needs.

    Personally I look first at interior room when determining whether a car is the "right size". The smaller the car is on the outside, the better I like it. The fact that a car could have a compact exterior and mid-sized interior is actually a big plus for me.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    I am confused as to why an SUV buyer would pick the Camry, or any car for that matter. Wouldn't they buy an SUV?

    Then you didn't read my original comment. A Camry or Fusion would be more "plush" than a Prius. Therefore someone coming out of an SUV for FE purposes would choose one of them over a Prius every time I say.

    Personally I find a hatchback a lot closer to an SUV than a sedan.

    I agree with that. However not everyone who bought an SUV bought it for the for the "U". They bought it because it's a nice safe comfortable ride. Again, if they are willing to step down to a mid-sized hybrid sedan, I still wager they would go for the more comfortable models.

    Anyway, who are you to tell someone that their reason for buying a car isn't valid--even if it's only because they want to make a statement about their "greenness"?

    More valid to the argument. Try to keep up backy! :P
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    IMO, many long time SUV drivers are happy with a decent mid-size sedan that gives 50% or more, better mpg, hybrid or not, compared to their SUV. They're not giving up much in size for typical everyday use. After the fuel price spikes this past summer, many of them could be looking at the hybrid vs gasoline engine price of cars and deciding the gasoline engine is better for their usage.

    The "payback" time of a hybrid doesn't seem to be there yet for someone driving 15K miles or less per year, even when gas prices are at $3 per gal.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I read exactly what you said--something about an SUV buyer picking a Camry or Fusion over a Prius. Try to be more clear, OK?

    What is "plush" anyway? I wouldn't call a lot of SUVs I've ridden in "plush."

    Have you driven the 2010 FFH, TCH, and Prius and compared their relative "plushness" and comfort levels? Have you interviewed every person who is going from an S_V (no U involved, remember) to a hybrid car to see whether they would prefer a sedan or hatchback? No? Yet you are sure that someone coming out of an SUV for FE purposes would choose one of them over a Prius every time--even though the Prius trumps them on FE? Okee doke.

    As long as you are telling people what is valid or not valid to buy, we could talk about everyone who buys an SUV for any reason but going off-road did so for an invalid reason. But that would be ridiculous, wouldn't it?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Therefore someone coming out of an SUV for FE purposes would choose one of them over a Prius every time I say.

    Other people say something else. They obviously have different buying criteria than you do. For example, check out posts 172, 744, 1471, and 1693 here:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0a4a2c.f0a4a16/0
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    Well, now I know you didn't read any of it.

    Have you driven the 2010 FFH, TCH, and Prius and compared their relative "plushness" and comfort levels?

    No, and I stated that previously.

    Have you interviewed every person who is going from an S_V (no U involved, remember) to a hybrid car to see whether they would prefer a sedan or hatchback? No? Yet you are sure that someone coming out of an SUV for FE purposes would choose one of them over a Prius every time--even though the Prius trumps them on FE?

    IMO, yes, I do think they would look right past the Prius and go with the more comfortable cruisers. Is that so hard to understand? What's your opinion on the matter? Obviously you don't agree with mine so what is your take?

    As long as you are telling people what is valid or not valid to buy,

    Again, valid to the argument. I never said what you are implying.

    This has just become pointless to argue anymore because I just read your profile. Looks like anything negative about the Prius is off-limits with you. :sick:
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    172 is about someone taking delivery of their Prius. What exactly does that have to do with them trading in their SUV and choosing a Prius over the Camry hybrid which was the only other mid-sized hybrid at that time, 08/2006, IIRC?

    744 shows us someone looking for a Prius to replace an SUV but we never find out if he bought one or not. His posts just stop. Same for 1471.

    1693's author just tells us about his/her new Prius but I don't see where s/he owned an SUV that was traded in for it.

    Those were all nice, but are there any newer posts that pertain to the argument at hand? Someone who traded in an SUV for a Prius and passed up the Camry hybrid, Altima hybrid, Malibu hybrid and Fusion hybrid? Obvioulsy the last one isn't out yet so I'll settle for the other three.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Never had an SUV, but we have had a minivan since 1989 (two different ones) and had a hatchback (Horizon) before that. When I was shopping there was still a Mazda6 hatchback, I thought it would be nice to have that little bit of extra utility, but I ended up getting the sedan.

    Part of my decision was influenced by the fact that we were keeping our old 1997 minivan as a spare and/or for any of our kids to use. So, not being a handyman who is constantly hauling stuff, I figured we'd still have the old minivan for those rare occassions when more than a sedan is needed.

    I don't know if we are unusual or if a lot of other folks also just keep their old SUV or minivan and therefore the utility factor of their new mid-size car is not really a factor. I have one relative who bought a Prius, they kept their (not so old) minvan and just stopped using it for commuting. Their choice of the Prius was all about the mpg rating, not any utility factor.
  • mtnman1mtnman1 Westerville, OhioPosts: 383
    Personally, I think an SUV buyer would never consider a Prius anyway, because they're not getting that "lord of the world" feeling from it.

    I don't think people buy SUV's because they want to have some special feeling of superiority over others. That's the kind of crap I here from SUV haters all the time. We have two vehicles. One is a SUV and I like the idea that I can easily get around when we get a foot of snow which a Prius or Camry can't do. We like the fact that we can go to Lowe's or Home Depot and put an 8 foot long piece of lumber or a large gas grill (assembled) in our vehicle without renting or borrowing a vehicle. We also like the fact that we can put 7 people in our SUV without taking 2 vehicles when we are going out to eat or to a movie and have out of town guests or we have our 3 Kids, Daughter-In-Law and Grandson. It absolutely has nothing to do with being "lord of the world." I frankly think Prius owners have a better than thou attitude.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    That's the kind of crap I here from SUV haters all the time. ...

    I frankly think Prius owners have a better than thou attitude.


    Funny... that's the kind of crap I hear from hybrid haters all the time.

    Could we dispense with the name-calling and get back to discussing cars?
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    Guys, please, back on topic:

    I thought the Mazda 6i SV was supposed to be a mostly hypothetical car, like the base Altima. But my local dealer, not a very large one, has five of them in stock. These are the only manual transmission examples of the Mazda6 within 100 miles of here, according to the Mazda website.

    I'd probably go for the black one, if the SV had (a) keyless entry and (b) cruise control. So:

    Does anyone out there know if these items are available as dealer-installed accessories? And would the cost be so high that I'd be better off hunting down a (very scarce down here) 6i Sport instead?
  • mtnman1mtnman1 Westerville, OhioPosts: 383
    Backy I never stated once that I was a hybrid hater. In fact, if it made any sense financially to buy one, I would be very interested in the new Fusion Hybrid. I was basically refuting a false impression of SUV owners. Some of us own them for good reasons. I never thought I was name calling anyway. Just defending SUV owners. I don't apologize for owning one and I love driving them.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I do not see name-calling, but I do see personal insults -- let's drop them here, please.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,965
    as a mid size sedan and suv owner, i say DITTO!
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    no more personal comments!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I thought the Mazda 6i SV was supposed to be a mostly hypothetical car

    It is. Dealers are only allowed to order them if they are offered by their regional head of distribution. I have 2 on my lot.

    These are the only manual transmission examples of the Mazda6 within 100 miles of here, according to the Mazda website.

    There are no i Sport's in your area with a 6-speed manual? That's odd. I guess they may be popular in your area, and could be sold out.

    Always call a dealer, or submit an online inquiry because Mazda's web site may not always be accurate.

    Does anyone out there know if these items are available as dealer-installed accessories?

    Cannot be done by a Mazda dealer. You are better off finding a Sport.

    Again, best bet could be to submit an online inquiry to a few dealers. Let them know what you are looking for and see what they say. Good luck!
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    aviboy97:

    Heard any more rumors of the 6-speed manual for the 6S for 2010 lately?
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    Thanks, aviboy97. It's pretty hard to find ANY midsize with a manual around here. The local Honda store has two manual Accords (one LX-P and one EX-L), and I struck out when trying to find a manual Sonata, Fusion/Milan, or Altima. There's only one Mazda dealer within 90 miles, and I'm not impressed with their management or salespeople based on my previous experiences with them. If I lived in a larger, more competitive market, I'm sure there would be more choices available. As it is, I'll probably hold onto the '02 Accord awhile, but there's always the possibility of replacing our '99 Civic with something a bit nicer and roomier--somehow I can't get as comfy in it as I could 50 pounds ago 10 years ago.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Unfortunately not.

    Official changes or modifications for MY2010 have not been announced, either. The only alteration I am aware of is that production Job #2 will incorporate Hiroshima built 2.5L engines into the production of the NA Mazda6 along with the ones built in Mexico. Its basically just the block and heads. All other components are assembled at AAI (alternator, exhaust, etc)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Recall that your assertion was:

    Therefore someone coming out of an SUV for FE purposes would choose one of them [mid-sized hybrid sedan] over a Prius every time I say.

    So I provided a few examples from the Prius Prices Paid discussion to illustrate that there are SUV owners who have seriously considered, and purchased, a Prius. Some of these examples are very specific that the decision was based on FE. Here are snippets of the examples I posted, with key text bolded:

    From 172 (someone trading an SUV for a Prius): "My question is - what do I have to be careful of at this point? We already agreed upfront on MSRP, which seems standard in the Bay Area. He promised a fair trade-in value for my SUV (which he preliminarily estimated through Edmunds figures, amounting to about $2000 below Kelley - any suggestions on this?). And I've told him that I'll be paying cash."

    From 744 (looking for pricing on a Prius): "We are new to California and gas prices are forcing my hand out of an 06 SUV."

    From 1471: "The 4 week waiting list [for a Prius] is probably not such a bad thing since I have a SUV I am trying to unload - 4 weeks might not be enough."

    From 1693: "I think I am getting the car {Prius} free with the savings from the suv that I gave up."

    Note that all of these posts are from a time when there was at least one mid-sized hybrid sedan available--Camry Hybrid at minimum, and for some also the Altima and GM hybrids. As you pointed out, the FFH isn't available for sale yet, so there aren't yet any posts in the Prius "prices paid" discussion about how someone chose a Prius over the FFH. But wait a few months, when the 2010 FFH and 2010 Prius are at dealers, and then I predict we'll see that kind of comparison... just as folks in the recent past, represented by the posts above, took a good look at and (in some cases) actully bought a Prius instead of the mid-sized sedan hybrids available to them.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    just as folks in the recent past, represented by the posts above, took a good look at and (in some cases) actully bought a Prius instead of the mid-sized sedan hybrids available to them.

    I read every example you gave me in that post and not one of those people said they actually bought a Prius. They all just said they were thinking about it or trying to buy one. If you follow their post trail to the end (just click on their user name to see their posts like I did) you'll see that they still don't claim to have bought a Prius months later. Just some price checking and such went on. None of them claimed to have cross-shopped the Prius with a Camry hybrid, or any other mid-sized hybrid, either. That is another part of my claim which I still stand by.

    I wouldn't be surprised if all of them are still driving those SUVs because they didn't want to lose a ton of cash trading them in when gas prices were high.

    I think this is getting old because I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again. It's boring me so I can't imagine what the other forum members feel like right now. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I think this is getting old because I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over again. It's boring me so I can't imagine what the other forum members feel like right now.

    It is.

    A new topic, anyone?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Well, I don't see any other way to interpret ""I think I am getting the car [Prius] free with the savings from the suv that I gave up." except that this person must have purchased a Prius and got rid of (note the past tense) his/her SUV. Else there would have been no way for them to know what savings were being achieved with the Prius. Since that person stated he/she did give up his/her SUV, they were not still driving that SUV.

    I can't help it if you want to nit-pick, multiple times, every example someone posts here. I only pulled a few examples out of one discussion in Town Hall. It's not like it's an exhaustive survey. But you're right, it is getting repetitive so I agree it is time to move on.
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,296
    Not sure where to post this but….

    Our first year OnStar subscription will expire next month and we are debating whether it is worth the $300 for the annual subscription renewal. At the beginning we had some fun with the turn-by-turn navigation and the hands-free telephone feature but these are turning out to be novelties. Furthermore, we have AAA in the event of a breakdown or locking your keys inside, thus from a cost/benefit perspective it would appear that OnStar is a rip-off and a cash cow for GM.

    So my question are:
    (1) Is OnStar really worth the cost?
    (2) Are there any renewal discounts and if so is there a special discount code?
    So far we’ve received only one email reminder and no hard sell tactics. You would think in this tough economic climate GM would be pressing hard for our business but so far no pressure.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    Doesn't sound as if you'd be getting much use out of it. Probably not worth $300 per year. It's not something that I would be interested in if I owned a GM car (we have three Ford products). :)
  • donl1donl1 Posts: 109
    I renewed OnStar on my Acadia this spring for $150. This is the basic plan and does not include the turn by turn navigation.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    A reporter from a large national newspaper would like to speak to consumers who are holding onto their cars versus selling them or buying a new one because of economic uncertainties. Please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information no later than Friday, January 30, 2009.

    Chintan Talati
    Edmunds.com
    Corporate Communications

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    I wish OnStar had a pay per use plan. I guess if they did, it would hurt their subscriptions.

    Personally I don't drive much so I have only used OnStar once or twice since I got it in September on my Malibu. Do I need it, no. Do I want it, ya. I am in the same position as you are. I also am not sure if I will keep my XM Radio. Love it but not much use when my commute is 10 minutes.
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    is a nice feature to have in an emergency. Myself, for piece of mind $150 for a year
    would be worth it. Not the $300 however, since you already have AAA.
    Back to sedans... Who or what do you think will be the sedan to buy in the next year or two?
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