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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • You can't put anything you want on ebay without jeopardizing your feedback rating. The fact that we have seen the first Ford Fusion 2010 Hybrid on ebay is a valuable piece of information. It means that someone has put one on ebay and believes they can sell it otherwise they probably wouldn't have bothered. It means that we're going to have visibility into the purchase process and watch what someone will pay for it. It means we're going to be able to see what price the dealer gets for it.You can certainly say what it doesn't mean, all I'm saying is that nowadays what someone will sell something for or attempt to sell it for on ebay is relevant. That's all. And it's more information than we had before.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    The only thing that would be relevant to me would be how much my local dealer was asking unless you plan to buy yours from Ebay.
  • Don't know if this has been posted...but here goes..

    Ford Fusion SE, Honda Accord EX-L and Mazda6 I Touring are all tested and all three have manual transmissions.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/2010_ford_fusion_vs_m- - azda_6_honda_accord_comparison_test/(page)/1
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,758
    Accord wins a C/D comparo. What a surprise! :)

    It would be nice when they did these comparos if they would at least TRY to equip the cars similarly. Then maybe we wouldn't have complaints on the Fusion's "cheap" cloth interior while the Accord is the top-end EX-L trim. The Mazda6i was not in its top trim, either. Would have been more fair to compare the Accord LX-P vs. the Fusion SE, or the top-end Fusion against the EX-L (actually, it was the EX-L with Nav).
  • Ford Fusion SE, Honda Accord EX-L and Mazda6 I Touring are all tested and all three have manual transmissions.

    Thanks for the link. I thought it was interesting that C/D compared the interior of a 27,805 Accord with leather to the 21,000 pre-production Fusion. For $6k, they could have the door panels covered with just about whatever they wanted. Part of the reason for opting for nav in the Accord ($2200 over the EX-L w/o nav) is so you can get bluetooth and a workable but cumbersome iPod interface.
  • Accord wins a C/D comparo. What a surprise!

    In retrospect, they have been giving Ford a lot of accolades lately. I think they just don't want the blue oval's head to get to big. I wonder if
    Csaba Csere and Bill Ford live in the same neighborhood.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    There have been many contributors, on this forum, who had me convinced that the Mazda6, and even the Fusion, were more fun to drive than the Accord. Obviously Car and Driver sees things quite a bit differently. What they thought about the interior materials didn't mean much IMO.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,758
    Actually, C/D did say the Fusion was more fun to drive than the Accord--if you are on 40 miles of bad road. Which is a situation lots of folks find themselves in every day. I'm not one of them, though. I only have 10-30 miles of bad roads on most days. :P
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    After reading the last paragraph on the 2010 Fusion, I had images of Ford Camry. Not what I expected.

    Car and Driver
    "But as good as it is, the Fusion doesn’t register a high score on our fun meter. “A perfectly decent car,” concluded one crew member. “But it’s soft for intense motoring and might be better suited to someone whose needs include quiet operation and a softer ride.”"
  • After reading the last paragraph on the 2010 Fusion, I had images of Ford Camry. Not what I expected.

    Yeah, zikes! I wonder of the pre-production car was missing a sway bar or something. I know Ford has been doing a lot of benchmarking with Toyota, maybe they got carried away.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,758
    Like a quiet, smooth ride over potholed streets and highways is a BAD thing? :surprise:

    I think sometimes these car mags, and those who read them, get a bit carried away when it comes to handling vs. ride comfort and NVH. What are family sedans (especially the low-end, I4 jobs) used for, mostly? Commuting, maybe? Carting the family around town and on trips, maybe? Canyon-carving up and down mountain passes, at far-above-legal speeds? Not as much.

    If C/D wanted to disparage the Fusion by comparing its ride to that of a Camry (or their all-time favorite put-down, Buick), they would have done it.
  • I think sometimes these car mags, and those who read them, get a bit carried away when it comes to handling vs. ride comfort and NVH. What are family sedans (especially the low-end, I4 jobs) used for, mostly? Commuting, maybe? Carting the family around town and on trips, maybe? Canyon-carving up and down mountain passes, at far-above-legal speeds? Not as much.

    See this is really a matter of where you are living. On the west coast, cars that can run through the canyons get run over by those that can, or create road rage events. I remember going over CA hwy 154 in an '83 Reliant 2.6/4 cyl in the early 90s and being very very frightened. The Contour w/a 2.5 V6 had no problems on that road, nor CA hwy 58 going from 101 to I5 out of San Luis Obispo.

    I think my point is don't assume the world is flat because we live in the midwest. It is still round and still has canyons and valleys that are part of every day drives elsewhere in the country. This is one of the reasons Buicks and Oldsmobiles sold well in the rust belt but not the west coast.
  • There have been many contributors, on this forum, who had me convinced that the Mazda6, and even the Fusion, were more fun to drive than the Accord. Obviously Car and Driver sees things quite a bit differently. What they thought about the interior materials didn't mean much IMO.

    Well, considering the Accord won by a SINGLE point...

    Not only that, but C&D has been receiving checks from Honda and BMW for a while now. It's nothing new... at all.

    Besides, do you honestly think that after awarding the Accord a 10Best, they'd turn around and award the title to a DIFFERENT competitor? Please..

    C&D's comparisons are only interesting without a Honda or BMW in them, and I'm surprised they haven't found a way to award them in those cases as well! :)
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Oh, I forgot. If any magazine thinks the Accord is best (Consumer Reports, Car and Driver) it is biased, by rule. But of course the Edmunds review (where the Mazda wins) is much more believable. Reeeally
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    Hi,I have a Nissan which is still under factory warranty.I have about 800 miles left before it expires.These are the problems:
    1.The drivers side door had a wind noise,so I took it to the dealer.He said that the door needs new weatherstripping which would cost $140 [$70 parts and $70 labor]
    2.Also,he said the side shocks [left and right] have to be replaced which would cost $200 including parts and labor.
    3.There are some minor rattles in the cabin.
    So,is weatherstripping and shocks covered under the bumper to bumper warranty?Or are they considered normal wear and tear? Do the rattles come under the factory warranty?
    Please,your help is greatly appreciated as I have only about 800 miles left before my factory warranty expires.
    Thanks.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    On the positive side, wrt, the fusion C&D says:

    On the other hand, the steering was nearly as good as the best in this group, and the car was absolutely devoid of nasty surprises.

    Sounds quite a bit different from what edmunds had to say about the steering...they called it numb and vague, IIRC.

    They mention a problem that I have found on most cars now applies to the Mazda6:

    Short bottom cushions, too.

    That was something I had thought I noticed when I sat in a leather equipped one recently. It seemed down-sized from my 2007 (cloth). OTOH, sat in the new Fusion at the auto show and loved the seat. For me the Fusion was definitely the best seat among these three, though I have not sat in a new Mazda6 with cloth, yet (I assume the seat cushion is no longer than the leather one).

    I also have to agree with the dissenter on the Accord:

    “Too big,” he complained, displaying a keen eye for tiny dimensional disparities. “And it’s ugly,” he added.

    But, I'm not sold on the super-sized RX-8 looks of the mazda6, either (nor do I like the chrome window trim or the black plastic filler in place of glass) and the grill of the Fusion is not appealing to me...I'd like to see a non-chrome option there.

    I had found the previous Accord's steering to be too light, sounds like this continues, based on mentioning the light steering of this edition.

    I don't think the different trim levels affected the net scores much. The Accord got bonus points for "features and amenties" but the Fusion got about the same bonus from the "price as tested" score. In the end, the scores are close enough that one would be silly not to check out all three and base their decision on their own personal preferences.
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    Keep in mind that the Accord EX-L also comes with bigger wheels and tires than the LX/LX-P. One of the key points C/D cited in favor of the Accord was its better steering response--a direct result of these larger wheels and tires. So I disagree with your contention that trim level didn't affect the net scores much.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    The wheels and tires on the Fusion and Accord were identical. First thing I checked.
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    Even before I read the review I could tell you who was going to win. (Accord). I also question the $6,000 dollar price difference between the Accord and Fusion. Is the Accord really $6,000 dollars better than a Fusion or $3,000 better than the Mazda? Why didn't CD use a Fusion SEL 4cyl automatic? Even the Mazda had the higher trim level. This was not an apples to apples comparison. Most won't see this. I hope people really read this article and see just how close the scores are. Along with the price tags being thousands of dollars apart. :sick:
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    In C&D's defense, the test cars are usually provided by the mfr so while they can request a specific model or trim or equipment level, they get whatever the mfr provides and I doubt Ford sells too many SEL manuals.

    The only thing surprising about the review was the Fusion suspension since that has always been one of the Fusion's advantages. It will be interesting to see other comments from other reviewers.

    And what's with the Gotta Have It rating? Since when do any of these vehicles evoke a "gotta have it" emotion?
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    And what's with the Gotta Have It rating? Since when do any of these vehicles evoke a "gotta have it" emotion?

    Believe it or not, I actually did have a little of the "gotta have it" response when I spent a week and a half with a rented Milan Premier I4 last summer. It was a surprisingly sophisticated car--only the engine noise under acceleration was a disappointment.

    Then again, I got the same "gotta have it" when I drove a manual '08 LX-P. So maybe I'm just bored with my current rides.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    I don't think the different trim levels affected the net scores much. The Accord got bonus points for "features and amenties" but the Fusion got about the same bonus from the "price as tested" score. In the end, the scores are close enough that one would be silly not to check out all three and base their decision on their own personal preferences.

    But if they were comparably equipped the Fusion still would have won points for both and driven it closer to the Accord's final score. Bluetooth and an iPod interface in the Ford cost all of $395 whereas you have to get the $2200 navi package in the Honda to have that functionality.

    If the so called comparison doesn't compare apples to apples then it's not a true comparison and should be treated as such. You can't give an advantage to one model when you didn't even give another the chance to show what it can do too.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I agree that they should either compare comparably equipped vehicles or comparably priced vehicles. But as I said, in the end, the scores are close enough that one would be silly not to check out all three and base their decision on their own personal preferences.

    For instance in my case I could not care less about blue teeth, ipods, or navigation systems. I care a lot about seat comfort and steering feel/handling. Having sat in and them and based on what I have read, were I in the market now, I'd be leaning toward the fusion...but I'd still drive all 3.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    They spoke very highly of the Fusion when they said something to the effect of "even if ten vehicles were in the comparison, the Fusion would be in the top 3.

    That spoke volumes to me.

    Golly, this forum got lively over that article!
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    They spoke very highly of the Fusion when they said something to the effect of "even if ten vehicles were in the comparison, the Fusion would be in the top 3.
    Which would strongly imply that they would favor the Fusion over an Altima 2.5/6MT. (Does such a beast still exist?)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    I think it's even more impressive when you realize that 4 cylinder sedans have not been a strong point for Ford in the past.

    I think the next test should be with the AWD versions. I bet the Fusion takes first place in that one........ ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,851
    i am wondering if for is softening the ride of non sport versions?
    next time i sit in the back of my fusion, i will have to see if i notice
    the 'knees up' seating position.
    i like the rims on the fusion.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,758
    The Focus and Mondeo are two pretty darn good 4 cylinder sedans from Ford. Unfortunately, the Focus we get here in the U.S. is a 10-year-old design (very competitive when it debuted) with some refreshes, and the Mondeo... that's a future Mercury, right? ;)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,730
    They haven't said whether any of the new Euro vehicles will wear a Mercury badge. But I don't think they'll be bringing the Mondeo here - at least not the sedan. But the next gen Fusion and Mondeo will be on the same platform. The Euro Focus should arrive next year and that might be a Mercury if it doesn't replace the current Focus.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,851
    the accord has 17 inch wheels. does the fusion se have the same now?
    se's are equipped with 16's, unless this is different for 2010.
    i have seen the wheels somewhere before, maybe euro focus?
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