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  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I wonder how that affects the number of leases vs. buys in states like IL? Especially for automakers that favor 24 month leases, like Ford seems to do. On a 24 month lease on a $30k car e.g. a well-equipped Fusion, that extra tax could easily add ~$40 a month to the monthly payment... unless it has to be paid up front?!? At that point, buying a gently-used car, maybe a CPO with factory warranty, looks a lot better to me than leasing a new one.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    I would expect it has to hammer it. especially on pricier cars that are heavily subvented.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2013
    And you'd be right. 10% lease rate in IL vs 25% in other states.

    Proposal Would Lower Price Of Car Leasing (WNIJ)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The key is getting a heavily subsidized lease so that you're paying far less than the actual depreciation.

    That's how they're able to lease a Nissan Leaf for $260/month with only $1500 down. They're using the government rebates to subsidize the lease.

    Absent big subsidies you'll pay a lot more for 3 3 yr leases than just buying one new vehicle.
  • judyr3judyr3 Member Posts: 6
    I agree that reliability is essential compared to a long warranty. The transmission on my '08 LaCrosse went out four months after the expiration of my 5-year warranty. You mentioned numerous attempts at repairing.. Were there attempts to repair the faulty transmission. I had one incident, complete failure of transmission, making it unable to move in drive. My only choices were a new transmission or rebuilt. I chose new transmission. Did you have either of those or just repairing the transmission? Even though my new transmission has its own warranty and I got some compensation on the charges, I would rather have answer to why this happened, especially a few days after preventive change of transmission fuel.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    Maintenance and repair also have to be considered.
    Maybe the tires or brakes need to be replaced just before your lease is up or there is body damage the must be repaired.
    If you own, you have more flexibility about those factors.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    you only pay sales tax on only the lease payments, not on the total value of the car

    I've been trying to figure this out and after reading all the posts after, I still don't understand this. I have never leased before so not my area of knowledge to start with, but I do know here, that sales tax is calculated on the price of the car..or at least I think so, are you saying that in some states, tax is calc on suggested list PLUS each monthly lease payment regardless of the term? Meaning that short terms would work out against you compared to longer terms? Altho once out of wty, the waters muddy further..
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Good points. Whether leasing or buying and enduring depreciation, having a new car every 2-3 years usually has to cost ya.. I would think it rarely turns out to be free-ride like. Certainly those who can have tax right-offs might be able to get a little closer to it making sense, but even a small business can still write-off percentages of private vehicle for business related use. When I was trucking I used 50% of costs on my private vehicle. Some would use 75% or more but I think that might draw attention and hassles of proving that probably backfires a fair bit. I never got questioned using 50%. And could prove it if it had happened.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    With a lease you're not buying the vehicle - Ford is (or the bank). You're only paying for the depreciation on the vehicle over 2 or 3 years but you still need to pay taxes on that depreciation so they're added to the monthly payments. In most states you don't pay taxes on the vehicle itself, only on the depreciation. If you have to pay both then that's a state law of some kind and not the norm.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Thanks, I understand better. But..so what was the difference in that state that the other chap had a break on and leasing made more sense there? Was it VA? I forget who it was. But how did this work differently in that state?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If the chap you're talking about is me, then in MN, you pay sales tax only on the lease payments i.e. depreciation. So if for example you make 36 lease payments of $200 a month and there's no down payment, you pay sales tax only on $7200, and you pay it up front (or SOMEONE pays it... hopefully the dealer, not you!). This is true regardless of the total price of the car.

    Trade-ins also come into play, in MN and other states (but not in all states). So when I traded my 2007 Sonata in on a leased 2013 Sonata last year, the trade-in value was deducted from the amount that sales tax was paid on. I wound up paying nothing down, and 35 payments (dealer made first payment) of $47 for my new Sonata. :) I paid no sales tax... the dealer paid the sales tax as part of the deal.

    As someone else noted, in IL and probably some other states, it's different. There you pay sales tax on the full value of the leased vehicle... making leases not nearly as good a deal as in states such as MN.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited November 2013
    It was IL, not VA that I was thinking of, but yes I think it was you who had it better for leasing. I think tax has to be paid up front here too but I always assumed it was rolled into the monthly lease payment, but I guess the dlr or bank does pay it up front. So somewhere it must still make sense for them, they wouldn't be doing that out of the goodness of their heart.

    Or maybe they claim that tax, (they paid up front) and take it out of your residual value if you have any at the end? It's coming back to me why I find leasing confusing.

    edit- the part that does make sense to me is at least getting a break on the trade-in. But then of course you should since it already had its tax paid when new if it was purchased. Unless it's ON. They get away with murder here. You can buy a car today. Sell it tomorrow, Buy it back the next day, and get dinged for full tax amt each day like it was the first time :(
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Leasing isn't confusing to me. It boils down to one question: "What's my monthly payment?" (Because I go for leases with nothing up front.) Then I compare that cost to other options, i.e. buying new or buying used, taking into account residual value on the car I'd buy, also the buyout price of the leased car (in case I want to keep it after the lease is done).
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    I'm from the school that when you lease, you put down as little as possible.
    It's a fiscally conservative way of thinking.
    If you have a trade, take the equity and invested or save it.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • vservser Member Posts: 48
    Funny. My wife brought up that point. She said buy it, drive it or five yrs, then give it to our daughter when she's of age. She too young or me to think about it now. Idk.
  • vservser Member Posts: 48
    I've learned that you should put nothing doesn't bc if you happen to total it, tat money is gone.

    I've also learned that kia charges you 375 as a disposition charge when you hand in the car. Also there's a fee if you want to buy your leased car. I'm back on the buying side of things.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2013
    I don't know about "giving" my Optima to her! She is gonna be borrowing till at least 18. In Virginia they get a learners at 15 yrs 6 mos on their way to a full license at 16 yrs 3 mos but with restrictions till 18 yrs. It's a graduated program.

    Back in the day, I got my learners at 15 yrs 8 mos, and at 16 got a full license, no restrictions. By then I had been already driving tractors, motorcycles, and the hay truck (manual trans) that we called Brutus. A car was easy in comparison.

    However, that was 27 years ago when the county population wasn't 1.2 million. More like 200,000.
  • What scares me is the dealer charging me for every scratch & ding on the car, and having to pay for the mileage if I go over. Is that still even an issue?

    I know that a lot of people in Fairfax County liked to lease in the past because of high personal property tax's. Since the vehicle was not owned by the driver, the manufacturer had to pay the 4.5% annual tax based on the book value of the car. So, the state made us pay sales tax on our cars year after year after year. It was hated by all, so the law changed and the tax is now more affordable at about 2.5%.
    .
    Then there's the unknown factor. What happens if myself or wife gets laid off? What if our credit suffers? Then I would not qualify for another lease with attractive terms, and all of a sudden I am sporting an 86 Ford Tempo.

    Anyway, I don't think I will be leasing anything soon.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Back when I lived in Fairfax county 20 years ago, the people with expensive cars would not get the county sticker as it was much cheaper to pay the fine.

    In South Dakota we have no county stickers, no inspection stickers and no emissions stickers. Nothing at all on the windshield. Refreshing change. Costs less than $50 a year to register a car.

    Very driver friendly - 75 mph speed limit with no points for speeding. Can drive by yourself when you turn 14 (if you take drivers ed).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Leasing isn't for everyone.

    I only do it when I can find a great deal, low payment with nothing up front except maybe the first payment. It has to make financial sense to me to do it.

    Dents/dings have never been a problem for me. I've either kept the car (sometimes reselling it for over the residual value since I don't drive many miles) or traded in on another lease. I did that this summer with my 2010 Sentra that was coming off lease. Had several dealers clamoring to take it off my hands and pay off NMAC even though it had a few scratches/dings, but nothing major. Handed it over to the Kia dealer on a Rio lease. That avoided the disposition fee on the Sentra too. :)
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    As I was pumping 18 + gallons of 87 into my wife's Pilot @ $3.35/gal (thanks to $.30 off/ gal from stop n shop rewards), a guy pulls up in a very handsome looking, what I know now to be, Corsa Blue Kia Optima. This car is definitely eye catching. The LED tail lights, chrome accents, projector beam (xenon?) head lights, the chrome wheels. Very sharp. Add to it that I don't see too many peaked my interest enough to come home & "build my own" on the Kia website. An Optima SX Turbo with no options definitely fits the bill. Very nice car for $28K sticker.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • I sold my jeep outright and then paid for a year of insurance on my Optima. It really helped out. As you guys mentioned, collision insurance is very expensive on a new car. By the time I was up for renewal this time, (after two years) the car was worth less money so I was able to move to Liberty Mutual for a savings of $60 a month over Progressive. That is $700 a year saved. (I had a ticket drop off too, but Progressive insisted that it wouldn't drop off for 6 more months).
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2013
    ....and if you want a gently used Corsa Blue Optima you can get a CPO 2012 SX w/ around 25,000 miles for around $20 grand.

    I love my non-turbo 2012 EX. After 2 years and 23,800 miles I have had no issues with it.

    We have a rewards program too. The local Giant Food ad Shell partnered together. 10 cents a gallon on every $100 we spend. We had 90 cents off last time and it cost $2.05 a gallon here in DC/North VA. (I have 3 kids + my mom and my cousins share).
  • I think folks on this board would have been appalled at paying the sales tax on their car over and over and over again like we did here in Fairfax. People that could afford expensive cars also usually registered their cars at a second home or a relatives. It was rampant. The masses can't afford a $500 tax bill on top of a $400 car payment. We still have to pay, but at 1/3 of the rate back then. Plus gas, plus maintenance, plus registration and plates.

    I envy your being able to live out in SD. It must be beautiful. Is there a good road for testing out your cars specs? Like top speed? LOL
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    edited November 2013
    Here in CT, you pay sales tax when you buy a car. You also pay property tax every year, based on vehicle valuation and your town mil rate.
    Last year the tax on our oldest vehicles, 1991 and 2002, went up!
    Didn't really drive the Fusion this weekend, but I did wash and wax it, so it is looking sweet.
    Rain tomorrow, so it's staying in the garage.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2013
    Yes. Same here. Someone has to pay for those new parkways and "hot lanes" for the rich, why not you? Your cars are paid for...you can afford it!

    My property tax bill should be arriving very shortly, and I would be happy to share the valuation and the tax amount. If folks are surfing these boards and are considering a gently used 2 year old mid size, they should know how much their actual costs could be.

    I don't want to be too critical, but we need to remember that a government is nothing more than a body of ungoverned individuals.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    A new law went into effect on 03/01/2013 here in Georgia that actually saves most of us a lot of money! Vehicle sales are no longer subject to Sales Tax (7% in most counties). Instead, a Title Ad Valorem Tax (TAVT) is due on the net sale amount. The TAVT rate is 6.5% for 2013, 6.75% for 2014 and 7% for 2015. In addition to replacing Sales Tax, we no longer pay annual Ad Valorem tax when we renew our tags. It's $20 per year from now on for a standard GA plate.

    I bought my 2012 Mazda CX-9 in 11/2012 and all vehicles sold in 2012 can 'opt-in' to the new TAVT program. If I keep it for five years, I'll save over $2200 by opting-in, which I have done.

    Under the new law, private sales (person-to-person), inherited or gifted cars and new residents moving into the state will all be subject to the TAVT. They didn't pay Sales Tax in the past.

    There's only one part of the law that makes no sense and it is hurting the leasing business. Leased cars are charged TAVT on the FULL VALUE of the vehicle. So if someone leases a $50k car for 36 months, $3250 (6.5%) will be added to the total lease amount. That would increase the payments by $90 per month!
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I was really taken aback when I first read the other day that some states charge an annual tax on you vehicle's BB or whatever value. I thought ON was bad, and is still given the huge % but this having to pay anywhere near $500 annually on your average 20+ k$ car would be tough to stomach. Now...of course we pay property taxes too, but it is on our 'property'...the house, garage, improvements, paved drive, central A/C, fireplace, covered/screened porches etc etc

    I guess grass isn't always greener..

    So what would you pay in tax on your Optima if your kept it 10 years?
  • Yes, but it's hot in Georgia and full of zombies!

    (If you don't get it you can yell at me)
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,090
    We also have a personal property tax here in Colorado. For new cars the taxable amount is 85% of the MSRP. Year one is 2.1%, then decreases each year to year five, where it levels out at about 1/2%.

    The good part is that the tax amount can be deducted on your federal taxes.

    BTW, no sedans in my household. One CUV and two hatchbacks.

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2013
    "So what would you pay in tax on your Optima if your kept it 10 years?"

    Well, it would be $4.57 per every $100 of value, or $228 on a car valued at $5000, but the County subsidizes the first 20,000 of value by 63%, so you would owe $85 on a 10 year old car worth $5000.

    So, on a car valued at $20,000/100 = 200 x 4.57 = 914 x 63% = $575.82.

    So, then $914 - $575 = $339 Total tax due

    I paid about $360 last year and will end up paying about $300 this year.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    You got me curious, so I looked up on one of my spreadsheets how much property tax we have paid on our 2004 Escape.
    The original MSRP was 28,500, although we did pay a lot less than that.
    In 9 years we have paid about $2500. Kind of depressing.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    That was a reference to 'The Walking Dead' right? It's filmed primarily in Senoia, GA (south of downtown Atlanta) and the Lifetime program "Drop Dead Diva" also films in Senoia and nearby Peachtree City, GA.

    Zombies and Divas I can handle, but the miserable heat/humidity that we have at least six months out of the year is almost unbearable!
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Yeah but at least we have the Falcons and Braves!

    Oh wait...........
  • Glad you got the joke! That is so cool that the show is filmed there. We get the same heat that you do in VA, but our season is a little shorter.

    You know, my car doesn't like the heat either. I can really tell the Optima is down on power when the heat and humidity are high. It is not just the A/C compressor either. The air has less 0/2 as well I am told. My last vehicle was a V8 and really didn't show the strain as much.
  • Yeah.... I can't even bear to talk about the Redskins.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2013
    As I am following it down the road I finally understand what my attraction is for the Sport. It has a BMW stance. It looks classy, and fast. I know it isn't, as it has similar power as my car, but it looks very high quality.

    I also still notice the lack of Mazda 6 vehicles on the road. I have not seen one since the last time I posted about it. There are three Mazda dealers within 11 miles, so it isn't an availability problem.

    Is Mazda not competitive price wise? I wish I knew why they are not selling more after getting so much good press.

    Also, what the heck happened to the Mitsubishi Galant? I remember when they sold pretty good and had all these high-tech features back in the 90's. Hmmm.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It might be price, for the Mazda6. Dealers don't seem in any mood to deal on them right now. For example, I saw a "special offer" in the paper on Mazda leases, and on a base Mazda6 the lease would have been ~$300/month for 36 months, factoring in up-fronts. Leases on competitors like Sonata, Optima, Camry, Altima, and Passat are a lot less... I've seen all of them for less than $250/month for 36 months with nothing out of pocket.

    Interestingly, advertised Accord leases are only a bit lower than those on the Mazda6, yet Accords are selling well. But Accord has a much bigger reputation and fan base than the Mazda6.
  • I think it is also price for what you get. The Grand Touring has no bump in hoserpower or torque....so not so much zoom zoom for $33,000. I wouldn't buy it over Accord either. As a matter of fact, I would buy the Accord Sport over the Mazda Sport. There is just more "Sport" in the Honda. If you know what I mean. Plus, I really like the Honda's black cloth seats. I know you are a "man of the cloth" so, have you seen them? Take a peek next time you see one if not.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Also, what the heck happened to the Mitsubishi Galant? I remember when they sold pretty good and had all these high-tech features back in the 90's. Hmmm.

    As one of the few Mitsu followers here I'll address that.

    The Galant, along with platform mates the Endeavor and Eclipse, were discontinued a couple of years ago. The Normal, IL plant where the 3 vehicles were manufactured was retooled to build Outlander Sports, and potentially other vehicles that share it's platform (Outlander, Lancer, Evo). Sports built in Normal are exported globally.

    As the former owner of a '99 Galant I can say it was a good car (reliable, good features & value) and that generation was by and large competitive. I kept it for over 10 years and 152K miles. But the '04 and up gen was not competitive and sales outside of rental fleets suffered. Combine with market issues affecting the Eclipse and it no longer made sense to keep the line going.

    Personally I hope Mitsu re-enters the midsize market, even if by no other means than rebadging an offering from another (non-Chrysler) manufacturer. I'm sure that not having a midsize sedan impacts their foot traffic. I wanted them to adopt the Kizashi but I've no idea what Suzuki is doing now that their auto biz has departed our shores.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • I have seen very recent commercials for the Outlander Sport, with the ad saying proudly "part of a full line of Mitusbishi products". I wasn't able to find any other USA products. I know they still sell overseas, with the Montero being semi legendary for durability. I think it is a shame too. A friend loved his Eclipse Turbo and drove it for many years beyond 100,000 miles.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I was comparing lease prices on base models, not higher trims like Grand Touring. I wouldn't buy any $33,000 mid-sized family sedan. For that kind of money, I could get a VERY nice slightly used luxury car or small SUV. But I wouldn't do that... I have better places to spend that kind of money than cars. This is from a guy whose daily driver is a Kia Rio5! :)

    "Sport" isn't just power to me. Handling is more important than power. And by all accounts the Mazda6 is great there. Also IMO it looks a lot more "sport" than the Accord.

    I don't like black cloth seats in general (although my Mazda6i Sport has two-tone grey/black, but I bought the car used on the cheap and I love it otherwise). I prefer lighter color interiors, or black with a lighter accent color like tan, so the interior isn't too cave-like.
  • gee22gee22 Member Posts: 82
    Forget about advertised lease prices regardless of make. I got my GT with the radar cruise control/FOW package for $50 less a month than the advertised base sport automatic that had an a MSRP $8K lower. I paid a few hundred under invoice in Apr and the prices have definitely come down and they recently had a money factor near zero like the Camry had not too long ago which made it a super buy.
    There's a few reasons why sales aren't good. At the low end, it is not such a great buy with the standard equipment as compared to other mid-size. At the high end, you get bells and whistles not available on competitors but not the power. If you don't mind a 4 cyl, it's a terrific car. I don't like to provide opinions on specifics since we all have our own likes and dislikes, but since I've been married with a kid, my non-SUV's have been a Camry, Passat and Accord. When I was divorced, I drove Audis and Saabs and I drive my wife's Volvo quite a bit so I'm not judging it in a vacuum.
    Pass a law that you must test drive every mid-size before you can get one. I assure you more sales of Mazda, Kia and some others would go up and sales of Camrys would go down.
    Incidentally, after months of not seeing another on the road, I saw two this week so I can now report there are four in North Jersey, three of them blue.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I wonder too if the Honda (ironically) has a quieter interior than the Mazda? That's the impression I have gotten so far, and that sure would affect my choice if I was fence-sitting a bit. I'm done with road/wind roar. I'm almost ready to be Buickized, haha..altho not quite cuz the ball seems to get dropped pretty quick when "towing not recommended" is stated in the literature. For my uses anyway..

    Random question for those 'in the know'. I borrowed a db meter and have been checking sound levels in my CRV. Dang it's a loud box. On the meter there is a switch that says "weighted". If it is in that position it makes the sensitivity greater..or IOWs db switch choices..60, 70, thru to 110db, has to be set much higher. To try to clarify, if it is in 'weighted', db position must be set to 90 db in order to centre line swing of 0 db. Which suggests the CRV ranges from 88 to 97db. But...surely not? So when in the non weighted switch, then db position is set tio a more realistic 70 db range which reads about 67 to 78 db in normal driving (idle to about 75 mph). IOWs.. pretty dang loud.
  • I don't see how you don't see the Accord Sports good looks! It just works for me. I know my Optima is pretty...it;s just a grass is greener on the other side kinda thing. The inside of the Accord is anything but cave like. It is sharp to me, except for the pasti-silver on the HVAC controls, Honda did a good job for a car costing just $23,000.

    On the Mazda, I would never plunck down $30,000 on a car with 185 HP 4 cyl. No way. I think other feel that way too. There are too many other choices with more scoot for that kind of bread. I think we are saying the same thing. Neither would spend more than $25,000 on a car.

    I am saying that the best mid size cars to test in that price range are the Accord Sport, Mazda 6 Sport and Optima EX. For 30,000 plus, it becomes a whole new ball game. One I cannot afford to play w/ three kids!
  • I have never considered interior noise levels when buying a car. I end up blaring Iron Maiden anyway.

    The Optima is as quiet as I need it to be. In other words; it is so quiet that it's a non issue. I am more concerned with the noise generated by 3 children INSIDE the car, especially after a long trip!
  • ahightowerahightower Member Posts: 539
    edited November 2013
    Brief update on my Accord Sport as I come up on five months of ownership.

    I still turn and look as I walk away from it in parking lots. The exterior details of the Sport continue to impress. The wider tires give it a nice stance. The wheel design is attractive, and the painted gray really hides brake dust well. The subtle lip spoiler and dual exhaust give it a pretty rear end.

    Power is adequate, and delivery is smooth. It likes to rev, and the manual gearbox is very good. The interior is holding up well. Seat fabric is very durable, and the faux aluminum trim feels and looks less fake than most, and is not scratched.

    Fuel economy is 28.8 mpg over the first 6K, which I think is pretty good for such a roomy car. (The Mazda was 31.5 mpg over 90K.) I am not a speed demon, but neither am I being especially frugal. Just driving it however I like, and noticing very little variation from tank to tank. I never use Econ mode - I like the more immediate throttle response and stronger A/C action in normal mode, and am perfectly capable of backing off and driving smoothly when I wish - and now that it's well broken-in, I don't hesitate to rev it high once in a while, and run along at 75-80 when traffic permits. I haven't been on any long highway trips yet, just suburban commuting.

    Here's the Fuelly data (I love this app):
    http://www.fuelly.com/driver/ahightower/accord

    It's been nice toting around the family of five with plenty of room for all. This car will extend the life of our Yukon, now that it is not our only option for whole-family transportation.

    Hill-holding... so convenient! I prided myself on having excellent hill control of my last MT with fast footwork and occasional handbrake, but this is pretty nifty.

    No significant problems. The "check fuel cap" message came on last night, and again this morning... I did, and it's fine. I'll have that addressed when I go in for my first free oil change in a couple of weeks, if it's still there. Otherwise, nothing.

    The Car&Driver long term test (I think it was C&D) indicated they had brake problems (warped rotors) before 10K, and I've heard of similar problems with many Honda models for a long time. But they now use venthilated front discs which should prove more durable under aggressive driving (which I don't really do). I suspect the journalists are driving like idiots who don't have to make the car payments... and expect no trouble of my own.

    I came out of a 2008 Mazda3i and just can't get over what a substantial upgrade this car is. It's so quiet, powerful, and roomy compared to the last car that I honestly cannot fathom spending more for an Acura or what-have-you. Who needs a "luxury" sedan when today's average family sedans are so feature rich and well built? All in all, the best car I've owned so far.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    great write up. I'm glad you are so happy with your accord sport. Fuelly is a great site. I'm not a complete fuel economy geek either, but it is cool to track FE & cost per mile. My fuelly nickname is: ctcarnut

    Good to know your accord has room for 5. There are 5 of us & we take my wife's Pilot together when we travel as a family. I might consider something in this category as my next ride when the lease is up on my 328xi next September. It would be nice to have 2 vehicles capable of holding all 5 of us.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • You are quite a lucky guy. It sounds like it has everything you need, it is getting great F/E, and it looks good doing it. I think the Sport is the most attractive 4 door Accord period.

    I feel the need to reiterate: Why does Honda keep the 18" rims for only the Sport model alone, along with the lip spoiler and the dual pipes?

    Well hey, if the best looking Accord is $23,500, then I guess Honda doesn't care that they are losing out on lots of EX and EX-L buyers, and the extra profit margins those models bring.

    I posted earlier that I thought the Sport most looks like a traditional sport sedan, not a sedan trying to be a sports car. It has a very BMW-esque stance to it. I congratulate Honda for sticking to the recipe w/o being trendy.

    I love it.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254
    The Accord is good at the 'Sport' level, but once you get to the top of the line, it loses something.
    I have a Fusion Titanium and the Accord the interior doesn't compete in design, as a place to be.
    Accord rear passenger area is more comfortable for adults, but nobody will be impressed by it, other than the space.
    Just under 10k miles and my average MPG is 28.6. I have been on some long trips.
    The Fusion is a heavy car, so it probably won't match an Accord 4 Cyl, but I've exceeded the 33 highway rating several times.
    Of course the Fusion has a lot more HP and it's completely effortless power.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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