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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    That's your region. Now look at my region.

    I'm confused, I just see 2.9-4.9% and $750 dealer incentive there.

    Plus the $750 says "Eligible vehicles sold utilizing this incentive program do not qualify for: 2007 Accord 4-cyl Sedan Special AHFC Lease/Purchase Plan"...not sure what that means, maybe that they don't get the $750, if you get the 2.9-4.9%???

    I don't think you will have any luck but there is this source for old web pages: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
  • So you had a $300 repair. That's not even one month's payment on most economy cars! Payments add up fast and few old cars ever need even more than a thousand a year in the worst case to keep running.

    On July 5, 2004, I bought a 1990 Ford Festiva 5 spd with 159,000 miles on it for $300--tho't I'd be lucky to get the thing home. It's coming up on 181,000--replaced clutch and timing belt at 175,000 for $750, just put in new radiator for $250. Everytime I fill up, it's 39-41 MPG. I use it around town and let the new Altima sit most of the time--I'm shooting for 200,000...
  • jd10013jd10013 Posts: 779
    Well look at the math. Let's say it costs 11k per accord and the median profit per car is 7k. Let's use 300k Accords sold in the US per year, that's 2.1 billion in profit. Assume they broke even on the other 700k cars sold in the US (which I highly doubt), yet that 2.1 billion is 3 times greater than their posted global profit of 609 million last year. Hmmmm....

    Your numbers are waaaay off. the 609 is correct (or close to it) but thats 609 billion, and thats in YEN. Honda makes about 2 billion a quarter in profit. their yearly profit is somewhere between 5 and 6 billion.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Of course, the point is that is is nice to have some alternate body styles to choose from. Ford, GM, and Chysler do this without necessarily having to pay a premium price. For example, if one does not like the Fusion, perhaps they find the Milan appealing.

    Honda and Toyota only let you do so if you pay up for Acura or Lexus. With the volume of Accords and Camrys they sell, they could certainly choose to offer the customer more choices in the mid-size moderately priced category.


    There are two ways of looking at this. What if GM took the best people they had designing the Aura, the best from the G6, and the best from the Malibu design teams, and put them together, to design 1 great car. Many times, these cars are stealing sales from each other. I think they should consolidate these resources. I'm sure the one team that designed the Accord was more cost effective than three teams designing the Aura, G6, and Malibu. The point is, the Aura, G6, and Malibu are basicly part of the same market segment. At least the Accord, and TL are going at two separate segments, and not taking sales away from each other.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Still, a good used car is always going to make more sense financially than a new one.

    Yea but you don't always know what "a good used car" is. Unless you know the car's history you have to just hope and pray you're buying a good car.

    I'd rather buy a basic new car, with a clean history and a new warranty, than a mystery used car.

    That's one of the reasons Hyundai is kickin' butt.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    Re. your 1990 Ford Festiva . . . I'm sure you know who manufactured it - Kia. So much for unreliable South Korean cars . . .
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "There were plenty of choices to consumers before the Fusion came along. I chose a Taurus once and that turned into a costly mistake. Now I choose to buy Hondas"

    Thats funny, same thing happened to me! I chose a Honda Accord in 2000. After my problems, I figured out its all hype, and they are way overrated and overpriced. So I went back to Ford.. ;)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "We've only owned one but I've dealt with Honda salesmen on 3 different occasions. Getting them to budge on price is no minor feat. YMMV."

    As I have been trying to tell somone here! Honda dealers Don't deal! I have personal experience with this myself. As far as resale too!@ Trying to trade my 2000 Accord was not a great experience. One dealer told me, I'll never forget this one.. " Accord LX's are all over the place, I have 6 of them on my lot now"... :surprise:
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Fact is, some people will complain about anything. I read one review where the owner complained that his Accord's door would not stay open, if he parked on an incline. Wonder what he would have thought about my last rental (Chevy) that the door was almost impossible to close. If you closed it too hard it would bounce back out, if you didn't close it hard enough, it simply would not close. You should not have to concentrate on how hard to close a door. This was by far not the only Chevy I've driven with this problem.:sick:
  • welspastorwelspastor Posts: 2
    I just test drove a Camry and Saturn this afternoon. I was convinced I wanted a Camry but after test driving the Saturn, I really like it (the Saturn). V6 is standard, as are many other features not on Camry. Am I missing something or is the Saturn as good as I think it is compared to Toyota? Camry had a lot of bad reviews here. That surprised me because everyone I talked to who has a Camry loves it.Camry seems to have better gas mileage.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Camry had a lot of bad reviews here"

    Some of the stuff in here is noise. You have to like the car you buy be it domestic or foreign and hope you get a vehicle off the assembly line that will give you a great ownership experience.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Am I missing something or is the Saturn as good as I think it is compared to Toyota?

    I too checked out the Saturn (I assume you mean the Aura) a few months back. Seems like a good car that would go the distance and satisfy you. However you have to wait for 75,000 miles to hit the odometer to find out if your assumption was correct whereas you can pretty much bank on the Camry (or Accord) doing that.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    just a suggestion depending on what value you put on engine/drivetrain refinement - stick with the XR variant with the 3.6 in it - but drive it first and make sure that you accelerate it hard coming out of a corner on a test drive. Do yourself a favor, though, and test the new Altima as well. The Aura impressed me as well, and certainly may be 'Detroit's' best effort to date. Or you can wait for the 08 Malibu to get onto the lots, same car slightly different styling cues. The Camry V6, IMO, is easily the best V6 out there right now, likely will get you better FE and may not actually cost any more to own than a Saturn or Malibu. The longer you plan to keep the car, the cheaper things like the Saturn/Malibu become. I would be curious what sort of prices you are being quoted on both cars?
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    I'm confused, I just see 2.9-4.9% and $750 dealer incentive there.

    I know we agreed to drop this but I didn't want to leave someone confused. ;)

    It was said that there were currently no cash incentives on the Accord, only low interest rates. You saw how there is a cash incentive in my area right now which I'm guessing will only increase as the year goes on. Follow now?

    Plus the $750 says "Eligible vehicles sold utilizing this incentive program do not qualify for: 2007 Accord 4-cyl Sedan Special AHFC Lease/Purchase Plan"...not sure what that means, maybe that they don't get the $750, if you get the 2.9-4.9%???

    They have a low interest rate and special lease program running on certain trim levels of the Accord too. You have to finance through AHFC and, as I understand it, cannot combine the $750 with either of those deals at this time.

    I don't think you will have any luck but there is this source for old web pages: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

    Cool link! But no luck. They are missing a lot of the 2006 pages and when you click on the "check incentives link" from the Edmunds home page it takes you to the current incentives.
  • 03accordman03accordman Posts: 671
    The variation from zip code could be in hundreds, not in thousands of dollars, as your post seems to imply. You are just confusing people with rumors.

    Again, at no point in the last couple of years have incentives etc been in the 3-4k dollar range on the Accord.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    It was said that there were currently no cash incentives on the Accord, only low interest rates. You saw how there is a cash incentive in my area right now which I'm guessing will only increase as the year goes on. Follow now?

    Yep...thanks for explaining.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    There are two ways of looking at this...

    Yes, that is true and you make some valid points about the potential greater efficiency and profitablity of having only one version of a car.
  • welspastorwelspastor Posts: 2
    On the Camry LE 4 cylinder I'm being quoted deal invoice of $19,811 plus sales tax and license. On the Saturn Aura V6 I'm being quoted $20595 plus $650 delivery, sales tax and license. Saturn is offering $1750 cash back for a cash deal or 1.9% fiancing for 36 months.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the Aura obviously the XE with the 3.5 pushrod?
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    You may want to read this comparo. It may enlighten you.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12148/2007-chrysler-sebring-touring-vs-2- - 007-honda-accord-se-vs-2007-kia-optima-ex-vs-2007-nissan-altima-25s-vs-2007-satu- - rn-aura-xe-vs-2007-toyota-camry-le.html


    That was a very interesting read, Elroy5. Of course I would like to have seen a Fusion thrown into the mix, but was not surprised that the Accord finished first.
  • lightfootfllightfootfl Posts: 442
    to quote the "caveman" from Geico : "? HUH ?" Reference those down the left hand part of the messages.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    was not surprised that the Accord finished first.

    Not many are.

    They should do the same test of these cars with 60,000 miles on them. I'm sure the Accord would stay atop the pack and probably widen its lead. That's the allure of the Accord. The Aura,the Optima and the Fusion are question marks until then.
  • urnewsurnews Posts: 668
    was not surprised that the Accord finished first.

    Not many are.

    They should do the same test of these cars with 60,000 miles on them. I'm sure the Accord would stay atop the pack and probably widen its lead. That's the allure of the Accord. The Aura,the Optima and the Fusion are question marks until then.


    Interesting idea, GoodEgg. I guess the closest thing to the 60,000 miles evaluation is Consumer Reports reliability findings. The book on the Fusion is still out, of course, but the preliminary feedback on the 2006 model has been pretty good.

    I was really interested in the Accord but the wife wasn't, so you know how that goes. Plus we considered the Accord to be out of our price range when equipped like our 2007 AWD SEL Fusion, MSRP $27,105.

    The other factors were the Fusion's bold styling and excellent handling abilities. We didn't even pursue, test drive or price the Accord but probably should have, in retrospect.

    Actually, I like the looks of the 2007 Accord better than I do spy the photos I've seen of the 2008 Accord.

    My only serious complaint about the V6 AWD Fusion is its very poor in-city gas mileage, 14.8 mpg and holding at 3,200 miles. It does deliver 24 mpg in highway driving though. Unfortunately, 95 percent of our driving is in the city, stop and go, short hops. Perhaps a V6 Accord wouldn't do any better. We should have bought an I4 to begin with given that gasoline is at $3 a gallon and headed for $4.

    So far, the Fusion has been absolutely trouble free for the first six months with nary a single rattle, squeak or flaw to be found. The fit and finish on all of its collective parts are perfect. It's an exceptional automobile -- for us at least.
  • daedalus34rdaedalus34r Posts: 26
    I'm in the market for a sporty 4door w/ manual transmission; today i went to the [subaru] dealer and sat in the legacy for the first time. I was pretty shocked to find how cramped the rear quarters were ... And the sad part is im not even a big person. 6'-0" @ 190lb, i'd consider myself averaged size and I could barely fit in the rear seat. I can get comfortable in the drivers seat ... i just have to put the seat all the way back and recline the seat-back a bit. When i did that, I dont see how anyone could sit behind me. Also, there is some serious lack of headroom [in the back] too, that C-Pillar makes rear-quarters entry an acrobatic task.

    I wish car companies would make usable rear seats that aren't penalty boxes. In comparison, I drive a '98 regal, and I can fit ok in the rear seat after I positioned the driver seat to my liking.

    Anybody got good recomendations for a sporty 4door with M/T? I hear the altima's M/T isnt so great and I hate how everyone and their mother's have that car ... too many out there.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Test drives are great! Try the Mazda speed also! sporty 4 doors with manual transmissions, wow, this is a tough one. My guess is your going to have to go to a Euro of some sort, Audi A3? Passat maybe? Saab?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    The house is short but there is a Legacy in the stable already. I am personally jonesin for a MazdaSpeed6 but its looking like I am more likely to end up with an Accord VP...about as exciting as a box of rocks :(
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,428
    What about an Accord SE 4-cyl - a little less boring and about $18,000 including destination for the stick shift. About as quick as the Mazda6s to boot. Throw on a large sway bar in the rear for a little better handling.

    The Mazda6 is a screaming value though with all the rebates, though the Accord VP really has all the guts of the higher priced models, and is no slouch itself.
  • oldcemoldcem Posts: 309
    Interesting - I have an AWD midsize with a 3.0 Liter 227HP Duratec derivative that delivers 19-20MPG in town and 27MPG on interstate runs. I suspect that your engine's not broken in fully yet. It's been my experience with 2 of these engines, that some blasts of hard acceleration up to redline is needed to fully break them in. They're also sensitive to engine oil levels. If overfilled with oil, they deliver poor economy.

    REgards:
    OldCEM
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    What about an Accord SE 4-cyl - a little less boring and about $18,000 including destination for the stick shift. About as quick as the Mazda6s to boot. Throw on a large sway bar in the rear for a little better handling.

    Yeah, the issue its its another 2 grand for what basically amounts to alloy wheels (with "OEM" level tires) and a fancier stereo. The only things I really like in the SE are rear discs.

    At 16k the Accord VP is an excellent value, at 18k for basically the same car, you are getting pretty close to a Mazda V6/stick in terms of TMV.
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