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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    edited January 2014

    @brian125
    In about 11 months and 11k miles, I've averaged just over 28 mpg. Low 23.8 and high 34.5, a couple of times. I only measure tank to tank using actual fill numbers.
    I love my SUV, too. It's been through a lot in 12 years and is still ticking.

    @benjaminh
    A lot of bench racing numbers there. In my experience, none of these cars are what I would call fast or quick. More than adequate, though.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited January 2014

    But this quote by C & D re: the V-6 Accord seems significant to me:

    "Those figures put it solidly ahead of all its competitors and into sports-sedan territory; the Accord ties our long-term, six-speed-manual BMW 328i to 60 and trumps that car in the quarter by 0.2 second and 1 mph."

    If you can equal or even beat a BMW, I'd call that fast and quick.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited January 2014

    Competitors are almost in awe of Ford's upcoming use of aluminum on the F-150. From Auto News:

    ....competitors gave Ford considerable respect for creating an aluminum body for the F-150, the automaker's top-selling crown jewel.

    "That took some guts," said Mark Bacchus, a Toyota r&d engineer who works at the company's Ann Arbor, Mich., technical center. "It's an aggressive maneuver...

    "At Toyota, a proposal like this would prompt the question 'What are you doing to offset cost?'" he said. "But we are tiptoeing in that direction. We are already doing aluminum hoods."

    An engineer for ThyssenKrupp Steel said as he examined part of the roof rail, "We knew it was coming. I'm kind of intrigued by it. I don't know of any other way to get that much weight out." The engineer declined to give his name.

    A Chrysler Group engineer, who also declined to give his name, was skeptical of Ford's claim that the 2015 pickup will be 700 pounds lighter than the 2014 F-150. "I want to see how Ford did the math," he said. "The 700 pounds is baffling...."

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20140118/OEM04/301209908/rivals-eye-f-150-with-respect-questions#ixzz2qnFg1LG7

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244

    I'm hoping to get a peek at the 2015 Ford 150 at the NY auto show.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited January 2014

    Curb weight of some 2014 midsize cars in standard trim with auto trans....

    2014 Altima S: 3108; 2014 Camry LE: 3190; 2014 Mazda6 Sport: 3232; 2014 Accord LX: 3254; 2014 Fusion S: 3427

    With the use of aluminum, I think it might be possible to get a midsize car down to c. 2950 lbs. What do you folks think?

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204

    @benjaminh said:
    If you can equal or even beat a BMW, I'd call that fast and quick.

    A 328i is a base BMW. Ok, the 320i is the new base BMW.
    BMW M series, now you start talking fast.

    About the F150, Ford started mass producing aluminum vehicles in 1989.
    It's called a Jaguar.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    For comparision, a 2014 Civic cvt rings in at 2811 lbs. A 2014 Elantra weighs 2818. A 2014 Corolla weighs 2820. A 2014 Mazda3 weighs 2848. And a 2014 Cruze weighs a whopping 3118.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    There's something a lot cheaper and easier than using lots of aluminum in mid-sized cars: make 'em a little smaller. "Compacts" like the Jetta, Corolla, and Sentra already have interiors that would have been considered roomy in the mid-sized class just a few years ago. So, shave about a foot off the mid-sized cars of today, to around 180 inches or so, and that itself will save a few hundred pounds. Then use lighter powertrains, e.g. 1.4 turbos with aluminum blocks, and save more weight.

    At the same time, automakers can make "compacts"... well, COMPACT again.

    If folks need more room than a trimmed-down mid-size, or they just like more metal around them, they can go for the likes of the Avalon, Azera, Impala, Taurus etc.

    @benjaminh said:
    Curb weight of some 2014 midsize cars in standard trim with auto trans....

    2014 Altima S: 3108; 2014 Camry LE: 3190; 2014 Mazda6 Sport: 3232; 2014 Accord LX: 3254; 2014 Fusion S: 3427

    With the use of aluminum, I think it might be possible to get a midsize car down to c. 2950 lbs. What do you folks think?

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited January 2014

    backy: You're right that midsize cars need to downsize, but what you're suggesting is a bit radical. The Accord hasn't been c. 180 inches long since the third generation, introduced way back in 1986....

    Length of the Accord sedan: 1986=179 inches, 1990=185, 1994=184, 1998=189, 2004=189.5, 2008=195, 2013=191

    As you know, back in the 80s and 90s, Honda and others often had basically a two car lineup: Civic, Corolla, etc for the small car and Accord, Camry, etc for the midsize car. Now Honda and most others have three cars, and so we have Fit, Civic, and Accord.

    And so the Accord can and will get a little bit smaller, and so will the Civic, but not by a lot. These days if you want a car about the size of a 1986 Accord you should buy a Civic instead.

    But the next generation Accord, due for model year 2018, will probably shrink a little, but just down to the size that the Accord was from 1998-2007, to about 189 inches in length, or maybe even an inch less than that. But they need to do it without sacrificing much in the way of interior room or trunk space. When people buy a midsize car today they are expecting a car that can carry 4-5 people and lots of luggage in comfort. Going down to a length of 180 for the Accord would be suicide in terms of sales.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited January 2014

    As we know, high gas prices mean that most people think about mpg when shopping for a new car. But the corporate average economy rules also set mpg guidelines for each class of vehicle all the way up to the year 2025. The confusing thing about cafe is that the "54 mpg" standard that many people have read about is pure fiction. 54 would be the epa number on your car's window sticker back in the late 70s and early 80s, but because that number was so much higher than real world mpg, the epa has twice adjusted the window sticker mpg numbers (in 1985 and 2008) to get closer to real world results.

    Bottom line: The epa standard of 54 mpg for 2025 translates into a window sticker combined mpg of about 38 or even less once "credits" of various kinds are taken into acount. And so some people reading the headlines about 54 mpg probably think the gov't is crazy, but if you see a number like 38 it seems a lot more reasonable.

    The standards for midsize cars look about like this: for 2017 the raw standard is "38" mpg, but that translates into a window sticker of c. 27 mpg combined. My 2013 Accord cvt already gets 30 mpg, and so already easily beats this goal, as do many other midsize cars. The goal for midsize cars for 2021 is "45" mpg, but that translates into a window sticker of c. 32 mpg combined.

    That number right there is what most players are going to be aiming at for their next generation of midsize car, and some will try to get beyond that.

    The mpg champ in the midsize market is the Nissan Altima, with a combined mpg of 31. And so Nissan is only 1 mpg away with this generation. In c. 4 years, when their next generation is introduced, we can assume they'll want to improve more than 1 mpg, and instead will target something closer to 10% or more, which would mean a window sticker of c. 33-34. Doesn't sound that impressive, but when you realize it's basically asking for an Altima to get the mpg of today's Sentra, or the Accord to get the mpg of today's Civic, it sounds much more impressive.

    But it's not all the big bad gov't. The real standard for 2021 is just 32, and so what the automakers are doing already is responding to market pressure, and challenging their engineering teams, to jump the gun and beat the cafe standards by huge margins. The cafe rules allow them to "bank" credits for future years if they need them.

    Anyway, to meet the standard of 32 mpg combined for a midsize car by 2021 it doesn't seem like aluminum is needed.

    And yes, I feel like wasting time today! lol

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited January 2014

    More time wasting...

    The epa mpg standards for midsize cars are really quite weak for the next 7 years. But for the last 4 years of the rules, from 2022 to 2025, the goals increase sharply.

    In 2025, a midsize car is supposed to somehow get c. 38 mpg combined on its window sticker, which would probably be something like 32 in the city and 46 on the highway. If a midsize car of 2025 is going to get there without hybrid technology, it probably would have to use aluminum or other lightweight materials. A midsize car also might need to use what Honda has done for years with it's 6 cylinder engine--use variable cylinder management. If you had a c. 1.6 liter turbo 4 that could shut down 2 cylinders on the highway, you could probably get to 46 mpg hwy or maybe even higher in a midsize car. And so as tough as the standard is for 2025, it does seem like there might be ways to get there.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    @benjaminh said:
    ... When people buy a midsize car today they are expecting a car that can carry 4-5 people and lots of luggage in comfort. Going down to a length of 180 for the Accord would be suicide in terms of sales.

    I don't think so. For example, the Jetta is 182 inches and has exactly the same cargo capacity as the Accord EX-L and Touring. Those Accords do have about 6 cubic feet more interior room than the Jetta, but the Accord is nearly 3 inches wider than the Jetta plus the Accord has 5 inches more wheelbase. So just shrink the length, keep the width and wheelbase (i.e. push the wheels more into the corners), and the interior volume can be maintained along with cargo volume, in a shorter and lighter car. Space efficiency in cars is a lot better than it was in the '80s. And that would be less costly in terms of price to the buyer than adding a lot of aluminum. Have you checked prices on F-150s lately? Easily go to $40k+. There's more pricing room there to add expensive aluminum than there is on mid-sized family sedans.

    What you might lose in the shrinking is the ability to carry 3 adults in the back seat for long distances. I wonder how many Accord owners do that today? If I were carrying 3 adults in back for a long distance, I'd use a full sized sedan or a minivan, not a mid-sized sedan.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited January 2014

    Backy: You make some good points, but as you know the Accord is Honda's "full sized sedan," or close to it. Honda sells something like 3-4 Accords for every Odyssey. Most people (me included) don't want to own a huge minivan, but sometimes we need our Accord (or whatever midsize car) to hold 5 people.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't think that 182 inches will happen in the foreseeable future for the length of an Accord, not even in 2025. But c. 186 inches? I can see that happening by 2022, which is when the Accord that needs to meet the 2025 38 mpg standard will come out.

    My guess is that the 2018 Accord will shed about 2-3 inches compared to the current model, and so would be c. 188-189 inches in length, and maybe c. 150 pounds lighter even without the use of aluminum

    When I first saw the 2013 Accord up close, I could tell right away that it was smaller than my 2008. I was slightly concerned about that, because we have two kids and a dog, and so we do have a lot in our car when we go on a trip. But the magic is that the 2013 Accord actually has 1 inch more rear legroom than the 2008 Accord, plus the trunk is a full 1 cubic foot larger. We definitely enjoyed that extra room on our last trip. The new Accord has slightly less headroom, but it's not significant unless you are really, really tall.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    Ford is considering "other aluminum-bodied vehicles" beyond the new F-150, according to the WSJ. Could the next Fusion use aluminum? Maybe....

    "....Ford began thinking about steps to substantially improve the F-series fuel efficiency in 2009 as the industry was reeling from the financial crisis and a surge in gasoline prices that pummeled sales of large trucks and sport-utility vehicles.

    Engineers analyzed 100,000 combinations of materials, engines and transmissions to build an F-150 that could deliver more power and towing while substantial increasing fuel economy over the 17 mpg rating for the truck's most popular version. The team considered hybrid powertrains, diesel engines, high-strength steel and shrinking the truck.

    "When we put it all together, to have the truck do what we wanted it to do, there was only one answer: aluminum," says Mr. Nair, who was the vice president of engineering at the time.

    The truck would also have to endure the punishment dished out by the miners, contractors and farmers who are the F-150's core buyers. Advancements in high-strength alloys, some used by the military, quelled some of those fears....

    Chief Operating Officer Mark Fields says he remembers when Ford reached the "point of safe return" and had to lock in aluminum contracts. "I went around the room and said, 'We will all remember this day,' " he recalls. "We had a lot of confidence."

    ....Ford won't say what it spent developing the aluminum pickup, but one insider says it was a multibillion-dollar investment, among the largest ever for a single model. Ford last month lowered its profit forecast for this year, in part because of heavy investments on product spending.

    If Ford can make the aluminum F-150 without a long-term dent to profit, the move could lead a shift to aluminum from steel as the dominant material for vehicle construction. Ford already has begun development on other aluminum-bodied vehicles....

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303754404579312821939870480?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303754404579312821939870480.html

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062

    I think it will show up on Lincolns first at lower volume with more profit per vehicle, but it could eventually show up in more mainstream vehicles. It took an entire Alcoa plant just to supply the F150. The interesting thing to me is how durable it is. This is not "beer can" aluminum to quote the negatards - the military uses this for blast shields.

    They also snuck a 2015 truck into the Baja 1000 disguised as a 2014 model with aluminum and the new 2.7L ecoboost engine. It wasn't fast but it finished the 800+ mile course with no breakdowns or problems. Ford also put the 2014 aluminum panels on work trucks in the real world and it performed as good if not better than steel.

    This technology is here to stay - just depends on how fast and how economically they can roll it out. I think Ford has at least a 5 year head start.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2014

    @explorerx4 said:
    Accord and 6 interiors are ok for base models, but really fall short when compared to the higher end of their competition.

    That's why I still love the Optima interior. The simple design with nice materials, just the right amount of sheen, A/C controls that have properly weighted knurled knobs and snick-snick accurate races that wouldn't be out of place in any Audi, perforated leather seats, push button start, rear vents, chilled glove-box, and a decent stereo with USB/AUX/Bluetooth, and SAT radio. No matter how many times I look at the competition, thinking the grass is greener on the other side, there is still so much to like my car that honestly I am years away from replacing her, and when I do, it will remain in the family.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2014

    Here is the 2014 EX interior with the base Infotainment. $24,400 sticker. I know of no other car in this class, at this price that offers so much in a quality interior. SO the steering is rubbery and the handling falls short of sporty, but they get a lot right at the is price point...heck at any price point south of $30,000.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2014

    @akirby said:

    They also snuck a 2015 truck into the Baja 1000 disguised as a 2014 model with aluminum and the new 2.7L ecoboost engine. It wasn't fast but it finished the 800+ mile course with no breakdowns or problems. Ford also put the 2014 aluminum panels on work trucks in the real world and it performed as good if not better than steel.

    This technology is here to stay - just depends on how fast and how economically they can roll it out. I think Ford has at least a 5 year head start.

    Sounds like I should invest in Aluminum, or Alcoa! Another future prediction is that cars will be printed from carbon fiber and plastic.

    I can't find any hard figures on the 2.7 liter ecoboost, except that it has been extrapolated at 310 HP and (probably) 325 lb ft. Any more would infringe on the carryover 3.5 ecoboost.

    Here is my source, and no I have never heard of "torque news" either. lol.
    http://www.torquenews.com/106/new-27l-ecoboost-v6-will-make-2015-ford-f150-most-efficient-truck-us

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062

    My guess is we'll see the 2.3L EB in a Fusion Sport while the MKZ gets the 2.3L EB and 2.7L EB.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204

    @akirby said:
    My guess is we'll see the 2.3L EB in a Fusion Sport while the MKZ gets the 2.3L EB and 2.7L EB.

    2.7 sounds like it could be a good fit in the Explorer.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062

    @explorerx4 said:
    2.7 sounds like it could be a good fit in the Explorer.

    For a sport model, sure. Otherwise the 2.3L EB would be the natural replacement for the 3.5L V6.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204

    @akirby said:
    For a sport model, sure. Otherwise the 2.3L EB would be the natural replacement for the 3.5L V6.

    I was thinking the 2.7 could use the extra torque to get the Explorer moving, compared to a mid size sedan.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • @akirby said:
    My guess is we'll see the 2.3L EB in a Fusion Sport while the MKZ gets the 2.3L EB and 2.7L EB.

    I can't wait to see a high power Fusion, and a larger four should help it feel stronger off boost. One of the continuing complaints I hear over at the Optima site is poor off-boost 2.0 T performance.

    The 2.3 EB is allegedly going in the new Mustang too, but not right away. C/D interviewed several Ford product planners and they said maybe in the 2016 to 2017 model year. In the meantime the 3.7 and 5.0 coyote continue on.

    "Back in the day" my girlfriend in HS had a Mustang SVO with the original 2.3 turbo. It was fast for the times, but broke down a lot. I don't remember the year, but it had the aero headlights and twin spoilers on the hatch, ala Mercur XR4Ti.

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062

    The 2015 mustang is getting the 2.3L EB immediately as is the 2015 Lincoln MKC - no waiting. Consider that the 2.3L EB will make over 300 lb/ft of torque compared to the current Explorer/Edge's 3.5L which only makes about 280 lb/ft and you just don't need the 2.7L EB for the mainstream model.

    An AWD 2.3L EB Fusion Sport with suspension tuning would be a screamer.

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181

    "The 2.3 EB is allegedly going in the new Mustang too, but not right away. C/D interviewed several Ford product planners and they said maybe in the 2016 to 2017 model year. In the meantime the 3.7 and 5.0 coyote continue on."

    Man, where do you come up with this stuff? You gotta get another source besides C/D, I guess. LOL. The 2015 is getting the 2.3 ecoboost as an upcharge over the v6 and this has been widely reported during the last few weeks on just about every car website out there. For example:
    http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2013/12/2015-ford-mustang-first-look.html

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    @akirby said:
    I think it will show up on Lincolns first at lower volume with more profit per vehicle, but it could eventually show up in more mainstream vehicles. It took an entire Alcoa plant just to supply the F150. The interesting thing to me is how durable it is. This is not "beer can" aluminum to quote the negatards - the military uses this for blast shields.

    They also snuck a 2015 truck into the Baja 1000 disguised as a 2014 model with aluminum and the new 2.7L ecoboost engine. It wasn't fast but it finished the 800+ mile course with no breakdowns or problems. Ford also put the 2014 aluminum panels on work trucks in the real world and it performed as good if not better than steel.

    This technology is here to stay - just depends on how fast and how economically they can roll it out. I think Ford has at least a 5 year head start.

    I think akirkby is right that Ford has a big head start in using aluminum. Ford CEO Alan Mulally, who previously was at Boeing, was obviously comfortable with working with the material. They began the F-150 project way back in 2009, and the truck itself won't be launched until Fall of 2014 as a 2015 model, and so that does represent 5 years and billions and billions of dollars of investment.

    In terms of dollars and cents, however, it's not clear how much the customer will come out ahead. On the one hand, higher mpg and higher payloads will make the new F-150 more economical and more functional. But on the other hand, list prices will probably be at least $1000 more, and apparently insurance and repair costs will be higher. And so it seems like it will probably be the best truck on the market, but in terms of money savings it might end up being only a small benefit.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2014

    @m6user said:
    "The 2.3 EB is allegedly going in the new Mustang too, but not right away. C/D interviewed several Ford product planners and they said maybe in the 2016 to 2017 model year. In the meantime the 3.7 and 5.0 coyote continue on."

    Man, where do you come up with this stuff? You gotta get another source besides C/D, I guess. LOL. The 2015 is getting the 2.3 ecoboost as an upcharge over the v6 and this has been widely reported during the last few weeks on just about every car website out there. For example:
    http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2013/12/2015-ford-mustang-first-look.html

    Yep, I read the article wrong. "We had only a two engine lineup to start with" right underneath that line was "the 5 liter coyote and the 300 hp V6". It is on page 33. Sorry!

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204

    @benjaminh said:
    since 2009...

    Repeat post from me. Ford has built aluminum bodied vehicles since 1989.
    There was a quote in one article from a Ford spokesperson citing 25 years experience.
    That bought me around to Jaguar.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Had a nice little snowstorm here in DC. Whole city shutdown Tuesday during the event, which is nice because we can all enjoy it. It snows 6" or more MAYBE twice a year. Packed snow traction is great, rarely did the traction control kick in, and the lumpy surface was soaked up by the suspension gracefully. Family felt safe and secure, and I did not miss my Grand Cherokee at all.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204

    Haven't driven my Fusion this week. I'm bringing in for oil change/tire rotation on Saturday.
    No way to wash it this week, was 2 degrees this morning, so I'm trying bring it in only semi dirty.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • @explorerx4 said:
    Haven't driven my Fusion this week. I'm bringing in for oil change/tire rotation on Saturday.
    No way to wash it this week, was 2 degrees this morning, so I'm trying bring it in only semi dirty.

    A man after my own heart! When I dug out my Optima she was still clean and tires still shining from Armor-All Tire Foam, (which I recommend). It is so cold that nothing has melted, so my car is still pretty clean. SInce I live in a second floor condo, I usually go over to my moms to wash it.

    I used a local brush-less car wash about a week ago, but my wheels, tires, and wheel-wells still had dirt and brake dust all over them afterward. I politely talked to the manager about it, and he said that I would have to pay for the "super wash" ($18) if I wanted my wheels treated. WHAT??? I just want them clean. I will treat them myself. As far as I know, wheels are connected to the car, and I just want them washed!! Ugggh.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204

    @cski.
    I only use the brushless if I'm not going to wash it myself. It doesn't do a good job cleaning the wheels, but I do it mostly to wash off the underneath and the wheel wells.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    edited January 2014

    It was supposed to be a simple oil change/tire rotation.

    I got there a few minutes early for my appointment.
    The SA said they were backed up and it would take a bit longer than usual, but I made the appointment with that in mind, so it wasn't a big deal.
    SA came to get me from the customer lounge and says service is done, but there is a problem.
    Brings me over to the car and the back bumper is damaged from backing into something.
    How you do that with reverse sensors and a wide angle rear view camera is beyond me.
    We will work next week on getting it fixed.
    At least they owned up to it.
    Then, I noticed they put he wrong oil in the car, so I waited while they changed it again.
    It looks like the just overwrote the 2 in 5w20 on the reminder sticker with a 3.
    Not feeling too confident.
    When I got home, I decided I should check the oil life indicator and of course it was not reset.
    After the car cooled off, I checked the tire pressures. I had set them all last weekend.The front 2 were over inflated and the other 2 were each a different pressure.
    It just keeps on getting better and better.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    explorerx4: Yikes, what a nightmare. Was that at a Ford dealership? Best wishes for this to somehow be resolved in a good way.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204

    @benjaminh said:
    explorerx4: Yikes, what a nightmare. Was that at a Ford dealership? Best wishes for this to somehow be resolved in a good way.

    Yes, it was at a Ford dealer. I have cars serviced at 3 other Ford dealers and everything goes smoothly.
    It was my 3rd visit to this dealer and each one has had some kind of issue.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    wowza. Worth a drive to avoid that place!

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • I bet it is the dealer that is closest/most convenient too. Don't go back there, and make sure to write it up on Yelp so others can avoid the same hassles. I had problems at my Kia dealer too, but only when asked to go beyond oil and filter change. Your dealer didn't even get the basics right and crashed your car as a bonus??? Oh sh**.

    I still check the oil before I leave the dealer (to make sure they remembered to refill it) and then I check it again the next morning to make sure they didn't cross-thread the filter or forgot to put the oil plug back in. Also, I am familiar with the towel-off-the-caps method of "topping off" or "checking" your fluids.

    Following up costs me nothing, especially after a Mobil station cross-threaded the filter in my '92 Saturn causing it to run out of oil downtown in DC, where there are zero gas stations. Nice. :s

  • Anyone else have recent dealer issues on their mid-size?

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    I bought our two Hondas at two different dealers in Louisville. One of them is huge, and the other is pretty small in comparison. But so far they've both offered very good service at fairly good prices. They always as for me to rate them highly with Honda, which I do because everything has been good. But it seems like Honda is breathing down their necks a bit!

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311

    according to Auto News, Hyundai dealers are asking for added help to get rid of their 2013 models. Could be some great deals out there on the Sonata....

    Hyundai dealers seek incentives to sell off 2013 models

    Ryan Beene
    Automotive News
    January 27, 2014 - 4:12 pm ET
    NEW ORLEANS -- Hyundai's U.S. dealers are hungry for additional incentive support to clear out leftover 2013 inventory as the brand seeks to recover U.S. market share.

    Despite being generally positive, with applause often punctuating Hyundai's nearly two-hour make meeting here at the National Automobile Dealers Association convention, dealers voiced concerns about excess 2013 model year inventories, and some asked the factory for extra incentives to clear out outdated models....

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20140127/RETAIL06/140129785/hyundai-dealers-seek-incentives-to-sell-off-2013-models#ixzz2rdpzXSVh
    Follow us: @Automotive_News on Twitter | AutoNews on Facebook

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • What about over at Kia? Is there a similar glut of 2013 models Ben?

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382

    already seeing cheap leases on Sonata and Elantra GLS. if they get crazy to blow out '13s next month, certainly worth taking a look at.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2014

    Kia's new flagship is to be called the K900. In their home market it is simply the K-9. Not sure I see the genius in essentially calling the car a dog! I guess someone in marketing seems to have serious cojones. It sure is a nice looking sedan; powered by the 3.8 liter V6 or the TAU 5.0 liter V8. 2 pictures are attached.

    Back to the Optima,. I Just got back from a 75 mile trip. Got 33 MPG! That is an all time high. I guess my car likes the 16 degree air.

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 18,979

    K-9? Maybe that why the grille is shaped like a dog biscuit. :)

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    edited January 2014

    @ab348 said:
    K-9? Maybe that why the grille is shaped like a dog biscuit. :)

    ROFLMAO. That was great. The grill
    on Kia's has always been my negative
    view. Looks like a meth user's smile.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244

    cski,

    Optima 's k-9 will compete with Hyundai's new redesign 2015 Genesis. I bought my 2013 Genesis, R-Spec sedan 5.0 in Nov, with 430 hp and 0-60 in 4.2 sec. This car is so fast its scary. On the highway from 30 to 100 in seconds.. I bought a 2013 model cause i did not like the new look of the 2015 model comming this spring. If you check out the Detroit Auto show they have a 30 min presentation by hyundai on this new redesign 2015 Genesis on sale in spring time at dealerships.. The list of standard/ tech features are very impressive for 45k. Lane departure system, CO2 sensors, heads up display on dash, pw train modes from, Auto to Sport to Eco to Awd system, New underbody structure, Senserory Surround braking system with fog and rain detection. 1100 watt 18 speaker with amp lexicon radio w, 7.1 surround system.. and the list goes on.

    I have the 1000 watt 17 speaker 7.1 surround in my 2013 and it is by far one of the best radio's i have had in any high end vehicle.. The Bang olufsen system is a close comparison to this if you had a Audi or Bmw or lexus with mark levinson system..

    What impressed me the most in this 2015 model was the new braking system with laser camera's front back and sides that will auto brake vehicle if the system detects on comming vehicle to close or a crash.. This system alerts when vehicles are comming from behind very fast next to you.. Great feature especially at night with the rain and fog..

    Hyundai Genesis may be back on top in the 40 to 50k segment. lotta bang for your buck here..

    The big question is??????..................... Are folks going to buy a 45k Hyundia.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2014

    >

    @ab348 said:
    K-9? Maybe that why the grille is shaped like a dog biscuit. :)

    God, I didn't see that until you pointed it out. LOL. Right away I didn't care for the Cadenza grill at all, and even though this one is done much better than the Cadenza, it does indeed look like the K-9 has a bone in it's mouth. OMG. It is the worst part of the Cadenza hands down.

    Still, it doesn't bother me as much as the over $120,000 S-Class "clown wheel". Yes, I am going to attach it again...

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,359

    @brian125

    "Are folks going to buy a 45k Hyundai?"

    Yes, as long as it had $15K worth of incentives plus 0% financing:) Oh, and a V8 would be a requirement:)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited January 2014

    The s class clown wheel would look even beter inside the Acura tl. The back of the Acura looks like a big smiley face..

    Consumer reports had the best line on that model.. looks like this Acura got hit with the big ugly stick............. Thank god they redesigned it.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • The back of the TL looks like Ultra-mans head. Especially the 1997 2.2 TL (thinly-disguised Accord)

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