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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    FYI the Mazda6i (I4) Grand Touring with moonroof and Sirius (standard on the Passat) lists for over $28k. For shame, for shame

    Let's see what each mfgr give you for $28,000....

    Passat advantages over Mazda6:

    more powerful 200hp/207lb-ft 2.0T engine
    Daytime running lights
    side view mirror turn signals
    heated windshield washer nozzles
    12-way power driver seat
    no charge schedule maintenance 3yr/36K miles

    Mazda6 advantages over Passat:

    Better fuel economy (21/30 AT)
    Xenon headlights
    Dual climate control
    Bluetooth phone + audio
    power passenger seat
    Blind Spot Monitoring System
    333 watt Bose Audio System
    rain sensing windshield wipers
    auto on-off head lights
    drivers seat memory
    auto-dimming rear view mirror w/ Homelink
    genuine leather seats
    Advanced keyless entry & start system (push button)
    anti theft security system

    From this list, I think Mazda gives you more for $28,000 then VW does....
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    FYI the Mazda6i (I4) Grand Touring with moonroof and Sirius (standard on the Passat) lists for over $28k. For shame, for shame!

    I don't disagree with that. That's why I posted that a V6 "should" be under the hood for $28K. Trust me, I'm not settling to buy ANY 4-cylinder midsize sedan for that price.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I don't disagree with that. That's why I posted that a V6 "should" be under the hood for $28K.

    Good point....

    VW just does not offer a mid sized sedan in the price range of the lower model Accord/Camry/Altima/Mazda6/Sonata to be competitive. That is why VW announced a $20K mid sized sedan due here by 2012.

    As nice as the Passat is, it is marketed poorly. Most mid-sized sedans sold are in the lower $20K range. Not $28,000+....
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    Your list had a few mistakes, and omissions:

    * Passat has a 6AT (with wheel-mounted shift control) vs. 5AT on the Mazda6i
    * Passat has remote sunroof controls and remote window operation
    * Passat does have anti-theft alarm standard
    * Passat has not only auto on/off headlamps, but dusk-sensing
    * Passat has a ski pass-through in back (does the Mazda6?)
    * Passat has a 12-year corrosion warranty, unlimited mileage
    * Passat has a full-sized spare tire
    * Passat has side and rear sunshades
    * Passat has automatic disc brake wiper/cleaner function
    * Passat has rear side airbags available
    * Passat has hill-holder function

    I may have missed some things.
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    Price in this economy is going to be very important. Consumers are finding out you don't have to pay the extra $2-$4,000 to buy an Accord/Camry to get a solid, reliable vehicle.
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    In Europe a car the size of the Passat is automatically regarded as something of a luxury. So the Passat's premium equipment level isn't out of place. But we Americans tend to expect more interior space and more road presence--almost as if we are buying cars by the pound. In that context, the Passat does not compete with the Accord LX, Camry LE, Sonata GLS et al.

    It would almost make more sense for VW to position the Passat against the Acura TSX or Lexus IS instead. But buyers of those brands tend to think "Audi" rather than "VW."

    I would love for VW to bring over the Skoda Octavia and Superb as a way of "bracketing" the US midsize market--Octavia could compete directly with the Fusion et al at the lower end, while Superb would be an almost-full-size car (a la Taurus or LaCrosse). In Europe these cars are highly regarded.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I realized the AT transmission gearing, but, it was too late to go back and fix it.

    I see no mention of "auto on-off headlight feature" on the Passat. This from VW..."Daytime Running Lights (DRL); upon start-up of vehicle, headlights engage with reduced power; instrument panel lighting, parking lights and tail lights remain off; to engage all lights with full power, the light switch must be turned to the on position "

    The Mazda6 also has remote window and sunroof operation.

    I did not see anti-theft alarm in the spec sheet at vw.com, but, now I do

    Ski pass??? The Mazda6 has a 60/40 split folding seat.I'm sure the 40% part can be used as a ski pass through....call it even.

    Rear side airbags are an OPTION, not standard as was the subject of my post.

    I'll give you the hill hold, spare tire (which is rarely, if ever used BTW) and better corrosion warranty. I have no idea wha the brake cleaner does. I have never had an issue with "dirty" brakes.

    I still think the Mazda offers more. Splitting hairs? Yes. But, the issue is that VW does not offer a mid-sized sedan for anything less then $28,000 is a problem.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    If the Mazda 6 is so good, then the Ford Fusion would be even better since they share the same platform. cant get a Mazda Hybrid either, +1 to Ford (83MPG in a Family Sedan?!?!) make that a +2!!
  • danprtrdanprtr Posts: 25
    '09 Passat CC 2.0T is much quieter and smoother (inside and outside, idling) than the '06 Passat 2.0T I had. Because of this, it has perceptually more power than the previous car. The Mazda 6i touring was a nice car but it has no trip computer without nav! That killed because I'm used to staring at my average MPG's all the time! The Mazda also seemed to have ridiculously low gearing (2,800rpm's at 60mph if I remember). Mazda had nice options but when the Passat CC came in at the same payment I jumped for it.

    Passat 4cyl. not a problem for the 3yrs. I lease. Agree a 6cyl. would be way preferable for longer term use. 4 3yr. leases of 4cyl. Passats completed, and every one of them was noisier going around the hills of cincinnati than the first year of ownership. Just have to think the turbos are loosing up way before 50k and will have issues (expensive) soon after 100k (if not before).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    I don't have much use for a ski pass-through myself (and I've never had one), but IMO a 60/40 split folding rear seat with a ski (or whatever) pass-through behind the center armrest is not the same thing as a 60/40 seat without the pass-through. With the former, you can put a long albeit narrow item in the trunk and have two people sitting in the outer rear seat positions--the most comfy seats in the rear by far. Without the pass-through, you could still put 2 passengers in back but one would be in the relatively uncomfortable center position.

    BTW, one reason many folks like a full-sized spare tire is that it increases your tire life by 20% when you put it into the rotation mix.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Assuming the car does not have steel wheels, full size spare would need to be on an alloy to be in the rotation mix.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Other than a ski trip I can't think of when a skinny little opening would be of benefit in a time with 4 people in the car.

    A couple days before Christmas '08, the pull cord on my snow blower broke. With the 60/40 folding seats in my '05 Sonata I was able to load it into the trunk to get to the power equipment dealer (they close from Christmas Eve until after New Years day). Obviously, I wasn't carrying 2 or 3 passengers. However, a ski pass through without folding seats would have left me up the creek.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    The Mazda 6i touring was a nice car but it has no trip computer without nav!

    The 2009 Mazda6 has a trip computer standard on all "i Touring" models on up.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    That must be why the opening behind the rear center armrest is often called a "ski pass-through"! :) Although I've bought some things at the home & garden store before e.g. crown moldings that would have fit through there pretty nicely.

    FYI, the Passat has the ski pass-through PLUS the 60/40 folding rear seat.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    Technically no, but it would make it a LOT easier to put into the rotation mix with an alloy wheel on the spare. I don't know if the Passat has a steel spare wheel or alloy. The last car I saw with an alloy full-sized spare wheel was a $40k Bimmer.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    It would almost make more sense for VW to position the Passat against the Acura TSX or Lexus IS instead. But buyers of those brands tend to think "Audi" rather than "VW."
    yeah, the car buyers have already showed us what they think of VW as a 'premium' brand - they called it the Phaeton. Regardless of how good the Passat might be, it couldn't succeed in the $40k+ neighborhood that you are talkiing about, as least not as a VW. Heck it is VW's tarnished reputation as well as its high relative price that make it a minor player in this group.
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    Captain2, the TSX starts at $29,160. The IS 250 starts at $31,305. The Passat starts at $28,300. Looks to me as though they're pretty close in price. But then my facts don't have nearly the credibility of your splenetic vents.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I'll take the IS250 over the TSX and Passat all day long....

    I'm willing to bet that the Passat is shopped against the Audi A4, TSX, IS250, BMW 328 etc....I see the CX-9 shopped against the MDX, RX350 and Volvo XC-90. Not exactly the same class, but, it happens a lot.
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994

    I'm willing to bet that the Passat is shopped against the Audi A4, TSX, IS250, BMW 328 etc...


    Exactly. And at the other end of the midsize spectrum, inexpensive sedans like the Fusion are probably cross-shopped against the Elantra and Civic, as out-the-door prices are pretty darn close. That's the pesky thing about "midsize (or midmarket) sedans."
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,015
    Could both of these, Passat and CX-9, be priced too high. When my wife and I bought our Infiniti QX-4 we were looking originally at Pathfinders. The decked out Pathfinders were within $2000 of what we could buy the Infiniti for. With the extra year of warranty, little more luxurious feel and better looking IMO it was an easy choice. We decided the Pathfinder was just priced too high when optioned similar to the QX-4.

    I think if the non-luxury model approaches the luxury model in price unless someone is really "payment constrained" it's kind of no brainer to jump up in class.

    Same with the Fusion or Milan and the MKZ. If a optioned up Fulan is within a few grand of a MKZ, I would buy the MKZ. Keep in mind I'm talking market price and not MSRP.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Could both of these, Passat and CX-9, be priced too high.

    The Passat is priced a little high for what it has, but, the main beef with it is that VW does not offer a lesser Passat to compete with everyone else in the mid-sized class.

    As for the CX-9, it's priced really really good. It's far cheaper then an MDX, Q7, RX350, GMC Acadia. It's on par with the Pilot and Highlander.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    So as has been discussed, VW's all-new mid-sized sedan that will be larger than the current Passat, offer the 2.0 and 2.5 engines, be built in the U.S., and start at about $20k will arrive in early 2012. So folks turned off by the idea of paying mid-$20s (after the inevitable discounts) for a German turbocharged mid-sized sedan with lots of features will have the choice in about 3 years to pay a few thousand less for a German-engineered, U.S.-built mid-sized car that will most likely have fewer features but a lower price.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,711
    to da metal, too. Did anyone else hear about the Ford Fusion Hybrid test run that ended this morning at 5:37? Wow...they got 1,445 miles on one tankful, an incredible 81.5 miles per gallon! Make that smiles per gallon. :surprise:

    Might just have to put this midsize Ford on my futures list with the three all-electric powertrain cars I'm tracking like a Seahawk. 81.5 miles per gallon. Ford said that we should expect smiles per gallon of what, 43 for this hybrid?

    image

    http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1020291_fusion-hybrid-finally-runs-out-of-ga- - - - s-1445-7-miles-on-single-tank-81-5-mpg

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,015
    The AWD CX-9 and MDX are only $3475 apart according to Edmunds TCO. Equipment varies but overall pretty close. It would be tempting to get the Acura for the resale and warranty. Five year cost is $4700 more for the Acura which is less than $1000 a year. I would imagine you could apply this exercise to midsize sedans as well. My point is that when less than $5000 separates a standard vehicle and a luxury one over 5 yrs....the luxury vehicle wins IMO.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    The better comparison is a Hyundai Veracruz Vs. the RX350, a fully loaded AWD is ~$10K less than the Lexus and has nearly all the features and luxuries of the RX350. The CX9 Is far more expensive and from the comparisons I made when I got a Veracruz, the VC is roomier up front and less claustrophobic than the CX9, that was the main fail point for me.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    The AWD CX-9 and MDX are only $3475 apart according to Edmunds TCO

    This is definitely the wrong thread to be talking about this, however, the CX-9 AWD starts at $32,000 and a GT w/ nav is around $40,000. MDX starts at $40,000 and MDX w/ tech is $45,800. I have a pre-owned MDX with tech on my lot, and I must say, I don't see how it is worth nearly $6,000 more. Plus, Mazda has killer incentives on the CX-9 right now with rebates totaling near $4,000.

    If you want to continue this discussion, I can meet you in the crossover comparison thread.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,015
    No need to jump threads. I was just using them as an example of standard vs luxury which I guess is beyond the scope of this thread anyway. Tks.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    My point is that when less than $5000 separates a standard vehicle and a luxury one over 5 yrs....the luxury vehicle wins IMO.

    $5000 would represent more than 30% of the total price that I paid for my midsize car. This is a huge difference.

    In any case, I have no interest in "luxury" vehicles and they often come with things I hate, such as leather, wood and chrome.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,015
    I did say "over 5 years" which represents about 9% of the 5 TCO. But I agree it is still a material amount especially if you don't like the items you mentioned in the first place.
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