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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • jlindhjlindh Posts: 282
    It's called gibberish.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,254
    I think Nissan has gotten tired. For all the hoopla over their CEO, I think he is showing that he really was more a success due to timing. Now he appears to be similar to all of the rest.
  • I think Nissan has gotten tired. For all the hoopla over their CEO, I think he is showing that he really was more a success due to timing. Now he appears to be similar to all of the rest.

    Well, we should see in the near future. I think the 2010 Altima has nothing special w/ the design. They should use the L shape headlight like the Z and Maxima. :cry:
  • berriberri Posts: 4,254
    I drove by an Enterprise lot today and it looks like Nissan is a hanger queen. I told you, they've become tired and need some major redesign.
  • Hi all!
    I'm a university student studying transport design in the UK, my latest project is to do a facelift of the Mercury Milan 2006-2009 model, which is annoying considering the 2010 model doesn't look too bad!
    I was just wondering what everyone in this forum looks for in a sedan for work and family use, but also your view of the direction of design for American sedans!
    Cheers
    I look forward to receiving your comments! :) http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/- emotorcons/emo_smiley.gif
  • That is one tough question. It's all a matter of taste after all.Like for instance,I like the way my KIA looks,and others think it's ugly.As far the direction of American designs...I hate the Cadillac squarish look,but like the Buick.Some of the Ford and GM sedans look pretty good,but I personally think the Chrysler products are very unattractive. The one American sedan which I consider to have the best styling is the Chevy Malibu.The Fords and Mercs are OK,but I hate their Grilles.I hope this helps you a little.Maybe you're looking for more technical opinions?
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    I think the nose and tail of the Milan are fine--but the greenhouse area looks dated. I would reject current trends and go for a taller roofline and/or a lower beltline, but without making the rear window any more vertical. The result might look too much like a Cadillac DTS to some people, but I think it would help distance the Milan from other midsize sedans, in a good way. I'm tired of every car looking like it has gun slits for windows.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    That is a very tough goal, Ford stepped up with the 2010 and made it look really good. In fact the Sport version is badass from the front. If you can keep the lines of the front, but change the grill to be less intense, that is a lot of chrome, that would be about the only improvement I can see for the Fusion. One thing that makes it very hard to design a car is all the safety factors involved. The doors need to be a certain height to provide enough side impact protection to meet the high standards, which gives the impression of small windows. Aerodynamics plays a huge part in car design, and trying to make something with a low COD and yet look nice is extremely difficult. They tried with the 2010 Prius, but IMO failed, it is still an ugly slug.

    The trend I see today in car design is they all look very much alike, it is hard to tell at a glance between a Honda, a Toyota, a Ford, and some of the European cars. They all follow pretty much the same basic car design, heck the Fusion and Camry are damn near twins, the only things setting them apart is the front and rear lights and grill. The body lines nearly match.
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,748
    Great redesign on this car...if it were a bit smaller & less $'s, would be an excellent value. Too bad Ford can't take it's styling and apply it their Fusion/Milan twins...it would be a much better car going against the Malibu. Co-worker bought a blue LT this past weekend & I was truly impressed...the only American cars I'd ever consider would be the Malibu LT or the new Taurus were I in the market at this time. Looks like we can make some decent competition for all the foreign brands if need be...so come on Detroit...get working & maybe this diehard foreign buyer will finally get to go American in the future!

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    Looks like there's a spot open in the gallery to the right. Which car should fill it? The new-for-2010 Legacy? Or maybe the Optima, freshened for 2009 with a new design coming for 2011?

    Or maybe the Galant, Sebring, or Avenger?.... nah.

    Just noticed the Sonata is now the 2011 model. Isn't it kinda strange to put a model there that can't be purchased (at least not in the USA) for several months, so there's no pricing or reviews and very little info in general available?
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,039
    My vote would be for the Legacy even though it is different than all the rest by way of the standard all wheel drive.

    I totally agree about the cars to the right and on their individual pages. They change them way too quick.
    However, do a comparison on the main Edmunds page of two cars, one being the 2009 Jetta TDI. The window stickers with the EPA mpg ratings for the TDI have been out for what, a year now, and Edmunds is still researching it????? I sent them an email about it about 9 months ago and they said they were working on it.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    In case there are any manual-transmission drivers out there that have their eye on the Altima, you'd better get a '09 while you still can!

    I've seen from more than a couple sources that for '10, the Altima sedan is losing the 6-speed manual COMPLETELY! This includes the lower-model 2.5 models, and the 3.5 SE (which is named the 3.5 SR for '10). And I thought Mazda was bad for dropping the manual on their V6 models...

    This leads me to two conclusions:
    1. The 6-speed manual is returning to the Maxima! (I know, wishful thinking... :P )
    2. Nissan has given up on the "4DSC" designation for everything they sell (a shame...)
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Could it be that people just don't want a manual anymore? Considering that automatics now exceed manuals for fuel economy, are smoother shifting and have as many if not more gears than manuals, plus they have become more reliable, that manuals are passe' in anything other than a Miata. I used to drive an 18 wheeler, and trust me, the last thing I want to do now is push a clutch in while sitting in traffic.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    The majority of drivers stopped wanting manuals in sedans years ago (decades?). The fuel economy and cost advantages are gone so it's just personal preference now. Most mfrs offer it here in the U.S. because they sell more of them in other countries, especially in Europe. It would be hard to cost justify doing a manual just for the U.S. because the volume is so low.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    I think that it's kinda fun driving a manual,but I think it depends on what manual it is.I test drove a Fit with a manual, and hated the tranny.It was hard to find the gears.When I drove an older Dodge with a 5 speed,it was a blast.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    You know what I'm gonna say,don't you Backy.....Optima..
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    Wait a minute while I sit down and catch my breath. ;)
  • dan1dan1 Posts: 76
    My 2 cents headlights should accent the front of a car not dominate it, the smaller they are the better. If you have dress up a boring design with goofy headlights like on the Altima (just my opinion) then you have bigger problems. Also never mistake what is in for what looks good, they are often not the same thing.
  • So it looks like the last gen Maxima (which is kind of a miss) and doesn't have a manual trans option...that's not too hard to kick off my shopping list. Next...
  • Thanks to everybody who responded! I've taken a lot of useful info from your comments and I'll be able to base a solid criteria around them. So thanks and I hope the American car market strengthens and grows in the near future.
    :)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I don't know if it the size or just that they stretch back to much into the side or top of the fenders, but I don't like many current headlight designs. I want headlights to confine them mostly to the front of the car, like on the old Mazda6 or the new Fusion...same with the tailights, keep them on the rear and of the sides of the car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    .same with the tailights, keep them on the rear and of the sides of the car.

    Uhm... where else would they be, on a mid-sized sedan? :confuse:

    Or did you mean "off" the sides of the car? I see the logic of having the tail lamps extend to the sides--allows the side markers to be integrated into the tail lamps, and maybe prevent additional holes in the body (for side markers). That's been done on cars for a long, long time.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    yeah "off"...as in not like the Altima and Mazda6 have done. Integrating side marker can be done without going as far as they have.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    I got my first good look at the 2010 Legacy today. My vantage point was from above and looking at the side and rear, and a close-up look at the rear and side also. From that angle, it would be very difficult to tell the car from an Accord except for the tail lamp extensions on the trunk lid (and the Legacy badge on the trunk of course). Without those extensions, the rear would look almost identical to the Accord's. And the side is a near-duplicate also, except the Accord has the character line that runs through the door handles. The greenhouses look identical, with the BMW-esque C-pillars, and both have chrome moldings surrounding the windows. But I thought it was a handsome-looking car, in a classic, conservative way. (The fact it was black added to the conservative appearance.) Someone who doesn't like the more avant-garde styling of cars like the Mazda6 and the 2011 Sonata might prefer the Legacy's looks.

    However, be forewarned that the trunk opening is very shallow front to back--as on most sedans these days.
  • I saw the Outback Wagon on the road last night. I thought it was a Tribecca at first when I saw the front. Its huge. I would like to see if they made any improvements to the back seat and its child carrying capability, but so far it looks pretty blandatastc in a sea of blantastic offerings. It makes our Legacy wagon look like a 90s Civic wagon in size comparison.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    Yes, the Outback looks more like a crossover SUV now than a station wagon. Much more muscular. No longer like a wagon variant of the Legacy. The Outback looks to me like a 5/4s scale Forester--not a bad thing IMO.
  • The Outback looks to me like a 5/4s scale Forester--not a bad thing IMO.

    And definitely not a bad thing for VW and Audi, that actually offer wagons, or Ford and Honda, which offer 5 seat SUVs that can more effectively compete against the new Outback.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    The Passat is and was not a direct competitor of the Outback, as the Passat doesn't offer AWD. As for Ford's SUVs, yes, the Outback is now more directly against the Edge than it was before. Honda has nothing directly comparable to the Outback. The CR-V competes with the Forester, and the Pilot is an 8-passenger SUV. As for the Audi A6 wagon.... it starts at $53k. Which puts it in a totally different market than the Outback.

    Anyway... how many Passat wagons does VW sell in a year? Maybe one reason Subaru went to a SUV design for the new Outback is that they found that not many folks wanted an AWD station wagon. If they are going to buy a vehicle of that size, why not get something taller, with more cargo capacity?
  • As for Ford's SUVs, yes, the Outback is now more directly against the Edge than it was before. Honda has nothing directly comparable to the Outback. The CR-V competes with the Forester, and the Pilot is an 8-passenger SUV.

    How different are these in real life? You don't think people who look at an Outback would cross shop the CRV, or the Pilot or Odyssey for that matter?

    Anyway... how many Passat wagons does VW sell in a year? Maybe one reason Subaru went to a SUV design for the new Outback is that they found that not many folks wanted an AWD station wagon.

    How many do they have to sell? How big is the market?

    If they are going to buy a vehicle of that size, why not get something taller, with more cargo capacity?

    Of what size? If its bigger, its not the same size. And from the specs, the vehicle is taller for ground clearance, not that much taller inside. If I wanted something "taller" I would go for the Mazda5 or upcoming Grand C-max thing. Its too bad Honda did the "hatchback" with the Accord and not the wagon.

    I don't know, as an owner of an '05 Legacy wagon that we love, I think the new Outback is a miss for me.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    How different are these in real life? You don't think people who look at an Outback would cross shop the CRV, or the Pilot or Odyssey for that matter?

    Someone looking at the Outback would most likely NOT cross-shop the CR-V, which is much smaller. (If there were looking at the Forester, then yes the CR-V would be a natural comparo.) It's possible folks looking for an Outback might cross-shop the Pilot, but more likely would cross-shop other five-seat crossover SUVs like the Edge and Equinox. Someone looking for more seating would logically cross-shop the Pilot, Traverse/Acadia/Enclave, and other 7+ seat crossover SUVs. I really don't think someone shopping for an Outback would cross-shop a FWD minivan like the Odyssey. Could it happen? Sure, there's always an exception. But the Outback and minivans like the Ody are much different kinds of vehicles.

    How many do they have to sell? How big is the market?

    Exactly. Apparently not as big as the market for SUV-type crossovers. I expect Subaru and other automakers have studied the market pretty closely. How many AWD station wagons starting in the $20s are there?

    Of what size? If its bigger, its not the same size.


    I meant longer, of course.

    The Mazda5 is not available in AWD, is it? If someone wants something in AWD that's REALLY tall, they could go for a big SUV like the Travcadiclave or an AWD minivan like the Sienna (actually I think that's the only AWD minivan left).

    Better save your money for an A6, I guess. ;)
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