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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244

    For the first half of last year, more than half of all Chrysler 200 sedans were sold as fleet vehicles. No wonder it's widely seen as the official car of the rental lot. And it's doubtful those fleet sales did anything to help Chrysler in the long run. Very few people who shelled out $20 or 30 per day for the displeasure of driving a 200 later plunked down $20,000 for the displeasure of owning one. The new 2015 200 s has a bigger motor/ awd. Still not up to par with the class leaders in its field.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2014

    8100 was just too clean a number. While rental plots are full of Sebring's and 200's, they are also used by the government. Social Service's here use them, and they are conspicuous sometimes because I will notice that a car has hubcaps and small wheels that are only offered by order just to keep tire costs down. Our government sells the cars after 125k and 5 years..

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    @brian125 said:
    The new 2015 200 s has a bigger motor/ awd. Still not up to par with the class leaders in its field.

    It was good enough to top the Accord Sport in the most recent M/T mid-sized sedan comparo. :) Also the Altima and Malibu. (Fusion didn't participate.) Since Chrysler's top two targets with the 200 are the Fusion and Malibu, that's a good start.

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,029

    Well, it's new, and we all know how the car magazines usually fall over themselves for a newly-introduced car. I can't understand why Chrysler would target the Malibu. It's not exactly burning up the sales charts.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    I think I got the info from one of the "greencar" websites but on what authority, who knows?

    The problem for automakers is that they have to be able to sell the diesels in California--a huge market. I think in a few years government attitudes about diesels will lighten up and they may even get the same privileges as hybrids do.

    So I think there's room in this market for Mazda, definitely.

    @m6user said:
    Don't hold your breath on the Mazda6 diesel. I heard from my dealer that they were having problems meeting U.S. requirements and they are selling the gasser model in good enough quantities to maintain production lines in Japan. Unless you've got some good solid info to the contrary I'd be all ears.

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Oh, I think there is room all right. I think a lot of people would like to try a Japanese diesel. All they have really had is the VW in mainstream smaller cars in recent years. Luxury cars, different story.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Modern diesel cars are great for zipping around metro areas. You get all that oomph right off the line. The only time they really don't work is if your commute is very short and the diesel engine doesn't get to warm up thoroughly. They aren't efficient when they are below optimum operating temperatures.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2014

    Do we have a Malibu driver? I am seeing Malibu ad's framing the page here, and it specifically says Chevy Malibu on our little home here. Just wondering if they wooed anyone over. I like their rear stance, and I even like the rear end where I can see two muffler's; but no fancy dual exhaust tips. Kind of like "I have it, but I'm not gonna show just anyone."

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    @ab348 said:
    Well, it's new, and we all know how the car magazines usually fall over themselves for a newly-introduced car. I can't understand why Chrysler would target the Malibu. It's not exactly burning up the sales charts.

    I guess that's why the Optima--introduced several years ago--took 2nd, ahead of the brand-new 200. ;)

    Why target the Malibu? First, because it's an easier target than the likes of the Accord and Camry. Second, even though the Malibu isn't burning up the sales charts, it sells in much bigger numbers than the 200.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2014

    What I aim saying is that for the amount of sales they have, on top of the advertising dollars supplied to get built in advertising here on Edmunds, plus the NASCAR exposure including being tied to the likes of Dale Earnhardt, I am surprised we don't have a Malibu owner here ravenously defending his mount's honor, even though under the skin they have nothing in common. Stickers as headlights? I think the cars should be more realistic to be honest.

    Or, maybe they are out racing while I sit in the A/C online babbling about Malibu's.

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,029

    We have at least one Malibu owner here that I know of. I'm not sure what your point is though.

    BTW, they do not run a Malibu-body in NASCAR. They use the Chevrolet SS.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,029

    @backy said:
    I guess that's why the Optima--introduced several years ago--took 2nd, ahead of the brand-new 200. ;)

    Well, all those Korean payments to the auto journos by H/K still are paying some dividends. ;)

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    Not too many. When was the last time you saw a H/K win a comparo? Maybe H/K should take lessons on paying off the automotive press from Mazda... they get results from their payoffs!! :p

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2014

    The 2014 Kia Optima Turbo drove very closely to the Mazda 6 I tested on the same day. I think mine has "loosened up" over time, but it starts every day and has consistently provided a nice, reliable, warm or cold as necessary transportation module, but no it doesn't drive as well as the Mazda 6. It is actually hard for me to remember what my car felt like when it was new vs. now. It was one heck of a lot tighter than the Jeep G/C I came out of. Progress.

    What I said about the 2014 Optima means that I think they reprogrammed the weld robots or used better Steel or a combination of the two for a stiffer platform, and new premium tires on a fresh platform. No wonder people buy a new car at around 30,000 miles, and my dealer slapped a "certified" sticker on my paperwork if I sell it between now and 2000 more miles.

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Yeah, like Mazda has enough spare change to pay anybody off. LOL.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    I got my first look at the new Sonata today, as I checked them out at my local Hyundai dealer. They were closed so I didn't get to sit in one, but I thought the exterior looked more "grown up" than the prior generation car. I liked the looks of the SE (now the base model) better than the higher-end trims, which have too much chrome trim for my taste. Every SE seemed to have the Popular Equipment package on it ($1200), which has a lot of stuff but not heated front seats as on my wife's 2013. In fact I don't know if you can even get heated seats on the SE. The interior looked very spacious, and the materials looked fine except for the trim around the HVAC controls, which was a cheap-looking silver plastic. The center stack controls looked dumb-simple--big improvement over the old model.

    This dealer also had tons of 2014 Sonatas (and Elantras). Looks like a good time to get a deal on a 2014. I noticed the 2014 Sonatas had a sticker discount on the PEP that made it only $900, and it includes goodies like a backup camera and heated front seats. So a pretty well-equipped car for ~$23k list... can probably get it for under $18k these days.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254

    @taylorgoines1, Your post isn't going to last very long here.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    Hello Taylorgaoines1 -- welcome to the Forums! We're sorry but your post can't stand because we don't allow solicitations in the Forums proper, as per the Member Agreement. You are certainly welcome however to join in the discussion and share your expertise, and make general comments on your product's virtues or the competition's shortcomings, as your personal opinion, but please no attempts to sell anyone anything, and no links, phone #s, dealer names, etc. thank you

    MODERATOR

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited August 2014

    brian125 → taylorgoines1

    I will give you a shoot to work some good numbers for me down the road. If I buy from your dealership you must fax me a buyers order to be signed by both parties to seal any out of state deals.

    where are you located S.C.?

    Just remember.... if you post things about great deals and you cant deliver you little ad stunt is dead. Reach me by Im on here.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited August 2014

    The new Acura TLX, which starts at $31k, is getting positive reviews. Car and Driver says:

    "Overall, the TLX is a satisfying and overdue return to the engineering and dynamic greatness long associated with Honda’s luxury brand. The three available configurations have their own distinct personalities and offer value at their respective price points, but if forced to choose, we’d hit the sheets with the V-6 SH-AWD model, wed the excellent 2.4L TLX, and (regrettably) kill the front-drive V-6 iteration. If Acura isn’t fully back, it’s damn close with this car."

    http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2015-acura-tlx-24l-35l-35l-sh-awd-first-drive-review-the-choice-is-yoursbut-mostly-acuras-page-2

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • ahightowerahightower Member Posts: 539

    Really liking the new TLX, except for lack of a manual transmission. I know, I know. Nobody buys them. There's still the ILX with the optional Civic Si powertrain. Maybe they'll tweak the styling to make it a little better looking.

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181

    The mistake with the ILX is not putting the 2.4 in all versions. You can only get stick and no NAV in the 2.4. The 2.0 is just too anemic for a car at this price point IMO.

  • @backy said:
    I got my first look at the new Sonata today, as I checked them out at my local Hyundai dealer. They were closed so I didn't get to sit in one, but I thought the exterior looked more "grown up" than the prior generation car. I liked the looks of the SE (now the base model) better than the higher-end trims, which have too much chrome trim for my taste. Every SE seemed to have the Popular Equipment package on it ($1200), which has a lot of stuff but not heated front seats as on my wife's 2013. In fact I don't know if you can even get heated seats on the SE. The interior looked very spacious, and the materials looked fine except for the trim around the HVAC controls, which was a cheap-looking silver plastic. The center stack controls looked dumb-simple--big improvement over the old model.

    This dealer also had tons of 2014 Sonatas (and Elantras). Looks like a good time to get a deal on a 2014. I noticed the 2014 Sonatas had a sticker discount on the PEP that made it only $900, and it includes goodies like a backup camera and heated front seats. So a pretty well-equipped car for ~$23k list... can probably get it for under $18k these days.

    I know a lot of people buy the same body style twice, but would you buy it for the savings, or wait until there are similar discounts on the new Sonata? I guess I am asking if you like the new one enough to wait....

  • @cski said:
    I know a lot of people buy the same body style twice, but would you buy it for the savings, or wait until there are similar discounts on the new Sonata? I guess I am asking if you like the new one enough to wait until the new body style has more incentives.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    edited August 2014

    @m6user said:
    The mistake with the ILX is not putting the 2.4 in all versions. You can only get stick and no NAV in the 2.4. The 2.0 is just too anemic for a car at this price point IMO.

    I agree about the Ilx. My assumption is once the TSX went away, the I would get a power upgrade. Probably a liter version if the base TLX 2.4. Other than the 2.0 it is a very nice car. Actually reminds me of the original TSX, which is a good thing!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,029

    The ILX has not done well in most reviews I've read. Seems the Verano is its only real competition and is usually preferred. Small segment though.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435

    I happen to like it. Looks nice, comfy, good features. Probably a bit doggish for high speed use. Add the 40 HP missing and tweak the suspension a bit and the reviews will change

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254

    TLX is basically a Honda Accord (same platform) with the engine tuned for premium fuel. Suspension is Acura.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited August 2014

    @explorerx4 said:
    TLX is basically a Honda Accord (same platform) with the engine tuned for premium fuel. Suspension is Acura.

    More or less. But it's a little more complicated than that. The write-up from autoblog says:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2014/08/04/2015-acura-tlx-first-drive-review/

    "Before jumping behind the wheel and covering hundreds of miles in all three models combined, Acura showed me a fullsize cutaway of its new sedan. The display allowed me to see for myself that the TLX is built on the same basic platform as the Honda Accord, but it is significantly different, having been updated for premium duty with additional high-strength hot stamped steel to improve rigidity and safety, along with aluminum alloy and magnesium componentry to reduce weight. Once satisfied with the platform's enhanced body stiffness and lowered mass, the engineering team shot acoustic foam into the body cavities, adhered acoustic barrier panels within the body panels, used triple door seals around the frames..."

    "The interior, in terms of design and execution, reminds me of the recently released RLX, which is Acura's current flagship...."

    "...the engine is mated to a standard eight-speed dual-clutch transmission (DCT) with a torque converter. Yes, a torque converter. The automaker has combined its DCT with a torque converter – the industry's first such marriage we're aware of – to improve smoothness in stop-and-go situations and enhance off-the-line acceleration, both areas of weakness with many dual-clutch gearboxes..."

    "....The Acura is remarkably quiet for a vehicle in this segment. The chassis and ride is also superb in all models....the TLX will make its owners look forward to the daily commute, whether three miles or three hours..."

    "I'm a sport sedan guy, and given that primary motive, I'd likely choose the BMW 328i as this segment's most engaging, sportiest and fun-to-drive model – but option-for-option, it's significantly costlier to purchase and own, especially once BMW's free maintenance program expires. And besides, in the real world, people rarely drive above six-tenths. The reality is that most buyers in the segment are actually seeking an attractive vehicle with an accommodating cabin, comfortable ride, sporty-feeling yet predictable handling, a long equipment list, strong crash test scores, impeccable reliability, fuel economy and a price that doesn't break the bank.....Acura has engineered a much better sedan than its TSX and TL ever were – and it's finally in a position to offer a much better, more properly focused luxury sedan than most others in the segment."

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2014

    Yeah, I know it is an Accord underneath. Acura isn't back until an NSX AND an Integra are on the lot!

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435

    sounds nice. I hope it sells well.

    and, in a few weeks when I need to take my TL in for an oil change, I know what I will spend the time doing!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    @cski said:
    I know a lot of people buy the same body style twice, but would you buy it for the savings, or wait until there are similar discounts on the new Sonata? I guess I am asking if you like the new one enough to wait....

    That's an easy question for me because the lease for our 2013 Sonata runs through November 2015. At that point, I'll bet there'll be good discounts on the 2015 Sonata. If I were in the market for another Sonata, I'd wait for the new one, most likely the 1.6L Eco version. But we're probably going with a small SUV for my wife's next vehicle. And I like smaller cars to zip around town in.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,254

    Look at the rear seat pass through from the trunk of the TLX. It's really small, which means the structure needed a lot of bracing, so it was not designed for strength from the start.

    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,029

    @stickguy said:
    sounds nice. I hope it sells well.

    and, in a few weeks when I need to take my TL in for an oil change, I know what I will spend the time doing!

    It looks like a nice car but man, is that design conservative. Could have been designed 5-6 years back from the looks of it.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435

    I actually like more conservative designs. Not boring per se, just classic/elegant. Something that doesn't look hokey, and should wear well.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181

    Yeah, look how old the Audi design is and it still looks very good. First time I've heard this design looking ultra conservative. Usually all you hear is "Oh, the beak". Acura has toned that down and now it's too conservative. Just goes to show you how different tastes interpret design. I haven't seen any car here that we discuss routinely that I wouldn't buy simply because of the exterior design. There are about 50 other things I consider more important. Now if one of them looked like the Aztec or Crosstour or something like that I would have to pass just due to the ugliness.

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181

    @explorer4‌
    "Look at the rear seat pass through from the trunk of the TLX. It's really small, which means the structure needed a lot of bracing, so it was not designed for strength from the start."

    Is that a fact something you know is a fact or are you just throwing out an assumption. Could it be that it was just part of the design? I have never heard that the size of the pass thru is a direct result of needed structural bracing.

    As far as being based on a Accord frame and the motor tuned up. The Lexus ES350 is built directly on the Avalon frame and uses the exact same drivetrain. I believe the MKC is built directly on the Escape frame. So what? All manufacturers share subcomponents.

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181

    cars.com video review of the new 2015 Sonata
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39l1PIe9ORc&feature=youtu.be

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435

    I saw one sitting out front of the dealer a few weeks back. I do like the new styling. and from peeking in the window, the dash/center stack seems nicer too.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • ahightowerahightower Member Posts: 539

    @stickguy said:
    I actually like more conservative designs. Not boring per se, just classic/elegant. Something that doesn't look hokey, and should wear well.

    Agreed. I'll take the "can opener" Acura over the "opened can" Lexus any day.

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    edited August 2014

    The new face of Lexus......

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    edited August 2014

    Pretty close on that picture.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949

    And Toyota seems to be mimicking it with the new Corolla and especially the new Camry. There's few current cars I would not buy just because of their styling, but the 2015 Camry is one of them. I can't take that schnoz.

  • Rolling trapezoidal grills. Sweet. But still better than Acura can muster backed up by an IS350 win over the 3 series in C/D just 6 months ago. I think it was the 335M...I dunno, BMW unhinged it's M program and now I don't know what is what to some extent.

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062

    M3 is the sedan. M4 is the coupe.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2014

    @akirby said:
    M3 is the sedan. M4 is the coupe.

    Yeah, I just wasn't sure which one in my head at the time! Also now there is an "M-Sport" package available on the whole lineup.

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,090

    I've been driving a Nissan Altima rental while my car is in the shop getting some work done. My thoughts and impressions after a few days (copied from the CCBA thread).

    I've done a couple of delivery shifts in it now and have a bit more of an opinion on my likes and dislikes.

    First, I really like the keyless entry and push button start. One less thing I have to fumble with as I'm getting food into the car. Quite convenient.

    It's spacious and quiet riding, for the most part. With 34,000 miles on it, there are a few squeaks and moans when I go over bumps. The brakes squeal a bit from time to time.

    No feel at all through the steering wheel. I'm glad my Hyundai has the button that allows me to (artificially) boost the feel. This thing is dead. I'm noticing the same feeling when I drive the wife's CX-7, too. Geez, I hope that someone, somewhere, has maintained steering feel in their cars.

    Handles like a pig. I know, it's a mid-sized sedan, but I could get the front wheels to screech even at moderate speeds. Low resistance Michelins are to blame?

    Still getting used to the CVT - after my experience in the Sonata Hybrid rental I had in CA, this feels very different.

    Infotainment sucks. No USB, no satellite radio. Choices are AM/FM or an AUX jack for my iPod.

    Good gas mileage, however. If I'm reading the dashboard right, this tank has gone over 500 miles already and there is still over 100 miles left to empty. MPG computer shows 26.3 - don't know if that's a lifetime number or just for this tank. I got the car with just over a 1/2 tank of gas in it and I've done close to 200 miles already. I'll probably have to put gas in it, as I learned that the E-GT will be in the shop until Monday.

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • Which is why I was confused. I thought maybe the 335 M-Sport was beaten but it wasn't. It was the M3.

    So, on the 3 series if the "M" is before the name it is a true "M" car. The others have the M after the name and denote an equipment package w/o the Hi-Po motor.

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    The people over in "Entry level performance sedans" know everything about BMWs. Try there.
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