Midsize Sedans 2.0

benjaminh

Buick's "Sweet 16" March Madness sale gives you 16% off of msrp for select models. Wow. My local dealer has a nice looking Buick Regal marked down from 31.5k to 26.4k. Nice car for the money imho. Has a 2.0 liter turbo with 250+ hp.

http://www.buick.com/march-madness-event-offers.html

Buick models are now getting a lot of strong reviews. And the price is sure right....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcE9e4Y1FdE

benjaminh

More deals on midsize cars.

The Honda Accord has leases starting at $199 a month, financing for 0.9, and well as a factory to dealer incentive of $1000 on EX models and above:

http://www.edmunds.com/honda/accord/2015/car-incentives.html

The Hyundai Sonata also has leases for $199, financing at 0%, plus a rebate of $1000:

http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/sonata/2015/car-incentives.html

roadburner

benjaminh said:

Buick's "Sweet 16" March Madness sale gives you 16% off of msrp for select models. Wow. My local dealer has a nice looking Buick Regal marked down from 31.5k to 26.4k. Nice car for the money imho. Has a 2.0 liter turbo with 250+ hp.

http://www.buick.com/march-madness-event-offers.html

Buick models are now getting a lot of strong reviews. And the price is sure right....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcE9e4Y1FdE

A local dealer had a sweet deal on a Regal GS demo- no hole in the roof and three pedals- too bad AWD can't be had with a stick...

ab348

I owned a 2011 Regal Turbo and drove a 2015 like the one pictured before deciding on my ATS. The Regal is a very nice car that flies under the radar. Main disadvantage is its weight and a tight back seat. The weight does give it a very solid feel and it is absolutely glued to the road - best highway cruiser I ever experienced. With the upgraded engine that began in 2014 it is quite zippy too. I would recommend one.

backy

A friend of mine just got a new 2014 Regal 2.0T. Got a great deal on the holdover model and she loves it.

backy

benjaminh said:

More deals on midsize cars.

The Honda Accord has leases starting at $199 a month, financing for 0.9, and well as a factory to dealer incentive of $1000 on EX models and above:

http://www.edmunds.com/honda/accord/2015/car-incentives.html

The Hyundai Sonata also has leases for $199, financing at 0%, plus a rebate of $1000:

http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/sonata/2015/car-incentives.html

This is a good example where lease deals aren't equal. I've seen Honda's LX lease at around $200/month, sometimes a little more, advertised for years in my area. But it's always with a big chunk of money up front. For the deal you mentioned, it would be close to $3000 up front on the Accord LX with the down payment ($1800), first payment, and TT&L (in Minnesota, you pay sales tax on all lease payments including down payment up front). But yesterday at a local Hyundai dealer, they were offering Sonata SEs for $209/month "sign & drive" for 36 months, before any special discounts like College Grad or Military or Loyalty (there is a $1000 auto show rebate right now). That's a big difference in cost. Even though the Accord LX is a great car, I don't think it's $3000 better than the Sonata SE.

benjaminh

Well, the lease offer on the Accord is before negotiation. I've never done a lease, but I think with negotiation the price difference might be less than you suggest—but I'm not sure. Hyundai is really blowing them out the door with low offers.

On a slightly different topic, Edmunds has a "true cost to own" feature. And the link Honda has to this feature seems to show that when you count projected maintenance, fuel economy, depreciation, etc., etc., that the Accord is overall likely to cost a little less than the Sonata over 5 years:

http://automobiles.honda.com/shop/cost-to-own/?ModelName=cr-v

But the cost difference looks to be only c. $600, and so if the Sonata has a greater rebate than the Accord I assume that would be erased and more....

Edmunds 5-Year Cost to Own®[2]
Honda Accord
LX 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl CVT)
$39,672
Ford Fusion
S 4dr Sedan (2.5L 4cyl 6A)
$39,958
Hyundai Sonata
GLS 4dr Sedan (2.4L 4cyl 6A)
$40,252
Nissan Altima
2.5 S 4dr Sedan (2.5L 4cyl CVT)
$40,935

The Sonata and the Accord are both very good cars. I personally prefer the Accord because it has best in class visibility as well as a few other things, but no doubt the Sonata beats the Accord out on a few things, including price.

benjaminh

2015 Sonata compared with 2015 Accord

Both of these are very good cars. Each one wins on different measurements.

MSRP of base model with auto before destination
Sonata: $21,150
Accord: $22,905

That's a difference of 1755, but the Sonata doesn't have a standard back up camera and doesn't even have any padding on the doors for this price. The Accord has both of these things. The Sonata does have an $1100 pkg that has the camera, the door padding, as well as a power seat, which then takes it past the base Accord but still gives it a lower msrp by several hundred dollars. Anyway, on msrp for comparable models the Sonata is several hundred dollars less, and when rebates are counted that might turn into $1000-$2000 dollars less. So the advantage on purchase price goes to the Sonata.

EPA MPG combined. Slight edge to the Accord for fuel economy.
Accord: 31
Sonata: 29

Warranty bumper to bumper & engine/transmission. Hyundai of course is the winner here.
Sonata: 5 year 60k mi & 10/100k
Accord: 3 year 36k mi & 5/60k

horsepower is a tie....
Accord: 185hp
Sonata: 185 hp

Both are rated Top Safety Picks by IIHS, which is another tie.

For rear visibility the Accord is the clear winner

EPA passenger volume gives a slight edge to the Sonata
Sonata: 106
Accord: 103

I personally like the styling of the Accord better, but that's obviously a matter of taste.

In terms of reliability and durability, I'd say they are probably about the same. And they are both made in the USA at top factories.

In terms of fun-to-drive, I'd give the edge to the Accord, which has been named by Car and Driver a 10 best for decades in part based on that.

In terms of a quiet and cushy ride, the award for that goes to the Sonata.

For acceleration 0-60, I think the Accord is slightly faster.

The Accord will likely do a bit better on resale value.

Again, both of these cars are great choices. It's really a matter of taste.

benjaminh

But even if the Sonata has a price advantage, there are definitely very good deals available on the Accord. "ocbuyer" in So Cal reports he just got a 2015 Accord EX auto with a list of $26,650 for $22,111, or over $4500 off of list.

stickguy

you can get deals on either one of them. really depends on the particular dealer and market. certainly both nice cars, with different strengths and weaknesses. so as always, try them, and get what you like best. really hard to go wrong.

one thing though on the Sonata that was mentioned earlier. It has a much more comfortable (to me) passenger seat, with height adjustment. some of these cars, I could not sit over on the passenger side, because the seat is way too low and flat.

backy

benjaminh said:

Well, the lease offer on the Accord is before negotiation. ...

The $209 sign & drive offer on the Sonata was without negotiation. The dealer that offered it has a no-haggle price policy.

No doubt you might be able to get a better deal than the advertised lease deal on the Accord. But it's a difference of about $80 a month. Based on what I've seen here re discounts being offered to buy an Accord, that might be the best route to take on those vs. a lease. Of course, there's big discounts when buying a Sonata too. Not to mention on others in the class such as the Fusion, Camry, Altima, Optima, and 200.

Five-year cost of ownership numbers are important if you're going to own a car for five years. If you plan on leasing for 3 years, then getting another car, I think the cost equation will be overwhelmingly in favor of the Sonata. In fact, the same dealer who had the SE for $209/month was offering Sonata Sports for $229/month. But my choice if I were to get a Sonata would be the Eco, which offers an average EPA FE of 32 mpg.

m6user

Below is copied from a large dealer's website in Chicago. With TTL the total monthly payment would be around $194.


"See all Current Specials for the Accord below
Brand New 2015 Accord Sedan LX 4dr I4 CVT
$148 Per Month
Just $6.00 Per Day!
For 36 Months
All Leases for 36 months, $995 down plus TTL, Acquisition fee included, documentation fee included, plates included. EXPIRES: 3/31/2015"

They had been advertising in all the papers a $0 down lease for $198 but recently changed to this deal.

benjaminh

backy said:

.... But my choice if I were to get a Sonata would be the Eco, which offers an average EPA FE of 32 mpg.

Yes, the Sonata Eco is an interesting car. Exclusive 1.6 turbo plus exclusive 7 speed DCT means not only great mpg but fast acceleration. Plus the list price is only c. $24k.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIzFyuOvZcI

I think the only midsize car that equals that mpg is the Mazda6? I have to say that the Mazda6 is really good looking. It wins in the style dept. for midsize sedans for me. Sonata is toward the back imho.

benjaminh

Here's an Auto Guide comparison of the Accord and the Sonata:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYVS8ILElio

backy

m6user said:

Below is copied from a large dealer's website in Chicago. With TTL the total monthly payment would be around $194.


"See all Current Specials for the Accord below
Brand New 2015 Accord Sedan LX 4dr I4 CVT
$148 Per Month
Just $6.00 Per Day!
For 36 Months
All Leases for 36 months, $995 down plus TTL, Acquisition fee included, documentation fee included, plates included. EXPIRES: 3/31/2015"

They had been advertising in all the papers a $0 down lease for $198 but recently changed to this deal.

Wow! Wish I lived in Chicago! Oh... but then I'd have to drive there.

benjaminh

m6user said:

Below is copied from a large dealer's website in Chicago. With TTL the total monthly payment would be around $194.


"See all Current Specials for the Accord below
Brand New 2015 Accord Sedan LX 4dr I4 CVT
$148 Per Month
Just $6.00 Per Day!
For 36 Months
All Leases for 36 months, $995 down plus TTL, Acquisition fee included, documentation fee included, plates included. EXPIRES: 3/31/2015"

They had been advertising in all the papers a $0 down lease for $198 but recently changed to this deal.

Would you be willing to post a link to this Chicago dealer? When I next buy a car I might see if my local Honda dealer can get close....

Michaell

I can go one better .. in the "Sonata Lease Questions" discussion, someone posted a link to an ad for a Sonata SE for $104/mo! $1150 due at signing.

Everybody thinks there is a catch somewhere, so the OP is heading to the dealer today to check it out.

It is a "one only at this price" deal....

akirby

I don't like the way leases are advertised. If you advertise a 3 yr lease for $199/month with $3600 down that's really $299/month.

I can lease you a brand new $50K vehicle for $99/month for 36 months - with $20K down.

I think the cap reduction should be limited to 2 monthly payments or less for advertising purposes.

Michaell

akirby said:

I don't like the way leases are advertised. If you advertise a 3 yr lease for $199/month with $3600 down that's really $299/month.

I can lease you a brand new $50K vehicle for $99/month for 36 months - with $20K down.

I think the cap reduction should be limited to 2 monthly payments or less for advertising purposes.

Agreed, and we try to explain to folks who come to the leasing discussions not to make any sort of down payment on a lease. It doesn't change your total cash outlay for the lease.

But, some folks are looking at the cash flow of the monthly payment.

m6user

Any ad that says "one only at this price" is a con job IMO.

Michaell

m6user said:

Any ad that says "one only at this price" is a con job IMO.

Why? I bought a new Accord LX in 1993 from one of those ads. Under $14K selling price for a car that stickered for around $17,000.

It happened to be in the color we wanted at a dealer about 25 miles from us - ad came out on Friday morning and we bought it Friday night.

akirby

If you're the ONE person who gets it that's great but sometimes they do that when there really isn't "one at that price" - they just say oh it was already sold. That's a scam for sure.

Michaell

akirby said:

If you're the ONE person who gets it that's great but sometimes they do that when there really isn't "one at that price" - they just say oh it was already sold. That's a scam for sure.

I disagree - everybody who went to that Honda dealer that weekend was told that their "one only at this price" ad car was sold.

It was - to me. How is that a scam?

stickguy

To me, the offer is fine. The scam comes when they are still Advertising the sold unit 3 weeks later.

Michaell

stickguy said:

To me, the offer is fine. The scam comes when they are still Advertising the sold unit 3 weeks later.

That I will agree with.

Remember, there was no internet in 1993. We called the dealer to inquire about the color, found that it was the one we wanted (dark blue) and immediately drove to the dealer to purchase.

The ad in question was in the LA Times, and it ran on Friday, Saturday and Sunday - I'm sure the dealer pre-purchased the full page ad for all three days.

txboy

benjaminh said:

Here's an Auto Guide comparison of the Accord and the Sonata:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYVS8ILElio

To be honest, Accord was my favorite car previously in mid-size sedan level. I like the style, the tight sporty steering wheel etc. Well, i changed my mind after 2015 sonata came out. It improved a lot from its previous generation. 2011 hyundai got the new ex-Audi designer and redesigned all there cars. I think the real success that time was Kia Optima except its steering wheel alignment problem. 2011 - 2014 hyundai sonata, em, it was different from 2010 model, but wasn't mind breaking. But 2015 sonata is a big deal.

I got the 2015 sonata with tech package 10 days ago and really like it so far. You can feel how much effort they put in the detail of the car.

One comment i would like to share is people keep talking about the steering wheel of sonata. Yes, many people like Accord's steering wheel tuning, but if you turn on the sport mode of 2015 sonata which is available in base model and i really enjoyed, you would get a very tight steering wheel tuning and it was more than enough for me.

If talking about package, design, interior etc, I don't think Accord or any of the car in this level can beat Sonata. But I believe Accord is more about mechanical reliability now. It has a long history and good record and reputation. Hyundai is still new to the US market and need time to prove its reliability. I like the way Hyundai upgrading its car every year, you would drive a car that no one has ever seen. On the other hand, 2015 accord doesn't look much different from five years ago but it may also means it's a very reliable model.

akirby

Michaell said:

akirby said:

I disagree - everybody who went to that Honda dealer that weekend was told that their "one only at this price" ad car was sold.

It was - to me. How is that a scam?

It's a scam if that vehicle didn't actually exist. It's very easy to advertise that and just say that it was already sold.

If there is such a vehicle then it's not a scam but I think it's questionable advertising because they put the "only one at that price" in small print hoping people don't read it. If they're not trying to fool everyone then why do they put it in small print?

Mr_Shiftright

If they don't take down the ad soon after the sale of the car, then it's a bait and switch for sure.

akirby said:

Michaell said:

akirby said:

I disagree - everybody who went to that Honda dealer that weekend was told that their "one only at this price" ad car was sold.

It was - to me. How is that a scam?

It's a scam if that vehicle didn't actually exist. It's very easy to advertise that and just say that it was already sold.

If there is such a vehicle then it's not a scam but I think it's questionable advertising because they put the "only one at that price" in small print hoping people don't read it. If they're not trying to fool everyone then why do they put it in small print?

Michaell

akirby said:

Michaell said:

akirby said:

I disagree - everybody who went to that Honda dealer that weekend was told that their "one only at this price" ad car was sold.

It was - to me. How is that a scam?

It's a scam if that vehicle didn't actually exist. It's very easy to advertise that and just say that it was already sold.

If there is such a vehicle then it's not a scam but I think it's questionable advertising because they put the "only one at that price" in small print hoping people don't read it. If they're not trying to fool everyone then why do they put it in small print?

While I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, the ads are following the letter of the law, just not the spirit.

If folks don't read the fine print, that's on them, not the dealer. There is so much information available today for folks not to get fooled by screamer pricing ads.

suydam

Yes, but it doesn't dispose one to feel kindly towards said dealer. If you feel you got straightforward treatment you are more likely to go back. Although I don't lease, I have had buying experiences that were relatively painless -- and then there have been the other kind. I'm more likely to return to the first type, and to recommend them to others.

Michaell

suydam said:

Yes, but it doesn't dispose one to feel kindly towards said dealer. If you feel you got straightforward treatment you are more likely to go back. Although I don't lease, I have had buying experiences that were relatively painless -- and then there have been the other kind. I'm more likely to return to the first type, and to recommend them to others.

Given that I don't subscribe to a newspaper, I don't see those ads very much here in Colorado.

I recently spent time visiting family in Southern California - my folks do get the local paper and it was interesting to read through the car ads on the weekend. Screamer deals, low low lease payments (only $2999 down, plus fees and taxes), all the stuff we're talking about.

We try to help folks cut through the noise and get to the heart of the deal. I'm pleased to be able to help folks achieve a positive buying experience.

m6user

There was a dealer in a Chicago suburb that used to advertise the same stock number car over and over again for a ridiculous price. I wasn't even interested in buying but called them a couple of times acting innocent and inquired about the car. Already sold, but we have others but not at that price was the answer. I called once the day of the ad before they opened. Oops, that car was already sold. Like I said, these are basically a scam. If you got lucky and got one 20 years ago that's great. But I contend that when they say there is only one, you have about a 1 out of 100 chance that it's legit.

andyfromva

benjaminh said:

backy said:

.... But my choice if I were to get a Sonata would be the Eco, which offers an average EPA FE of 32 mpg.

Yes, the Sonata Eco is an interesting car. Exclusive 1.6 turbo plus exclusive 7 speed DCT means not only great mpg but fast acceleration. Plus the list price is only c. $24k.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIzFyuOvZcI

Interesting review. Great gas mileage but poor handling - not for me.

andyfromva

Here's an Auto Guide comparison of the Accord and the Sonata:

To be honest, Accord was my favorite car previously in mid-size sedan level. I like the style, the tight sporty steering wheel etc. Well, i changed my mind after 2015 sonata came out. It improved a lot from its previous generation. 2011 hyundai got the new ex-Audi designer and redesigned all there cars. I think the real success that time was Kia Optima except its steering wheel alignment problem. 2011 - 2014 hyundai sonata, em, it was different from 2010 model, but wasn't mind breaking. But 2015 sonata is a big deal.

I got the 2015 sonata with tech package 10 days ago and really like it so far. You can feel how much effort they put in the detail of the car.

The comments in the video about the lack of comfort in the Sonata's front seats disturbs me. I've always found the front seats of my 2010 Sonata and 2013 Elantra to be extremely comfortable. I haven't done a test drive - maybe I'll feel differently than the Auto Guide guys.

txboy

The comments in the video about the lack of comfort in the Sonata's front seats disturbs me. I've always found the front seats of my 2010 Sonata and 2013 Elantra to be extremely comfortable. I haven't done a test drive - maybe I'll feel differently than the Auto Guide guys.

Yeah, I agree. I cannot comment for the base model in 2015 sonata. But my 2015 sonata limited which had adjustable back support leather seat was awesome. My wife was also happy with the seat with no back support on the passenger side.

One thing actually disappointed me about 2015 sonata is the Apple's Carplay. Hyundai claimed to release it on 2015 sonata but still hasn't. I would wait to see when would it happen.

stickguy

I have exactly the same car as txboy. and have no complaints on the comfort of the front seat. Even the passenger seat is IMO better than most since it is height adjustable.

benjaminh

Regarding the one or two at this price thing, I have to say that my family has benefited a lot from these specials over the years. In 1979, my parents bought a new Datsun/Nissan 210 for $3710 in the LA area. One only, but we got there when they opened and got it. In 1986 we got a brand-new Mazda B2000 LX longbed for $5995, which was about $1500 off of list iirc. In 1989 we got a loaded Toyota Tercel Wagon for, iirc, $7995. More recently, In 2002, I bought a brand new 2002 Accord LX for c. $15,700, which was almost c. $3.5 k off of list at the time. After that, Honda told their dealers to stop advertising on price, but some dealers will still give killer price quotes via email, such as Crest Honda in Nashville, which has a "TruePrice" policy. They show list price on their website, but ask for a price quote and they'll send you one that's right away $3000+ off of list on most Accords, and during the summer sales you can sometimes get close to $4k off of list.

http://www.cresthonda.com/index.htm

Some dealers are no doubt crooked with this "one at this price" stuff. But others really sell the cars, and for that person who gets there first to buy it, these cars can be a good deal imho.

m6user

You have an extremely good memory. I have bought about twenty five cars and trucks since 1979 and I would have to dig up some old paperwork to remember the exact price of any them except the last couple.

akirby

The ads run at least all weekend, knowing if they do actually have one at that price it will be gone Friday morning. It's legal but it's really a scummy way to do it. And as confirmed by M6user in a lot of cases the vehicle simply doesn't exist.

mtnman1

Just took a test drive today in a Honda EX-L this afternoon. Wow all I can say is what a let down. That was the worst interior road noise I have heard out of the Subaru Legacy, Mazda6, and Toyota Camry. I was very hopeful but it is completely crossed off my list. Also compared to the Legacy and my current Fusion it seemed far less substantial. I don't get the hype with them. The Legacy has it beat by a long shot. This friday I am driving the Fusion Titanium and SE Hybrid. I still may drive the Sonata, but I think after today's drive I can easily say the Legacy will probably be my choice.

suydam

How interesting that you would find it noisy. For me it's the quiet Honda! I wonder what tires were on it. Really it shows that you can't take anyone's word when it comes to these things. You have to drive them to see what's right for you. Is the Altima on your list? So are you now leaning Legacy and maybe Fusion again?

stever

If you are under 35 and recently bought a car to accommodate your growing family, please email PR@edmunds.com before Monday, March 30. 2015 to be interviewed.

robr2

NM

mtnman1

I have always said live and let live. I have 3 brothers and one of which is Gay. He has lived with a guy for the past 20 years and they are both very successful men. I love him regardless of my beliefs against the lifestyle. Plus he has never been an in your face person about it which I respect. I went ahead and edited my comment in which I never mentioned anything about the LBGT community or even eluded to it. Unfortunately, you have turned this in a direction that I never intended and I want to keep on point. I didn't mean anything derogatory and all I was commenting about was the obvious that Subaru pitches to the left of center crowd but the Legacy has become a mainstream car. I would never change my mind about the Legacy due to what you just told me. I just don't care.

robr2

mtnman1 said:

I have always said live and let live. I have 3 brothers and one of which is Gay. He has lived with a guy for the past 20 years and they are both very successful men. I love him regardless of my beliefs against the lifestyle. Plus he has never been an in your face person about it which I respect. I went ahead and edited my comment in which I never mentioned anything about the LBGT community or even eluded to it. Unfortunately, you have turned this in a direction that I never intended and I want to keep on point. I didn't mean anything derogatory and all I was commenting about was the obvious that Subaru pitches to the left of center crowd but the Legacy has become a mainstream car. I would never change my mind about the Legacy due to what you just told me. I just don't care.

No attack was meant. I deleted my message as well.

benjaminh

My 2008 Accord has some road noise. In contrast, our 2013 Accord EXL is comparatively quiet. It's a big improvement! The other big improvement is mpg. In the 2008 I get about 30 mpg when I'm going 65-72 mph. In the 2013, I regularly get 36-38 mpg at that speed, and a few times I've hit 40.

sda

suydam said:

How interesting that you would find it noisy. For me it's the quiet Honda! I wonder what tires were on it. Really it shows that you can't take anyone's word when it comes to these things. You have to drive them to see what's right for you. Is the Altima on your list? So are you now leaning Legacy and maybe Fusion again?

My 13 EX has the Good Year Assurance Fuel Max tires. At first I was somewhat disappointed because I prefer Michelins based on past experience. After 36000 miles I have no complaints. They seem quiet enough, and have not
gotten any noisier that I am aware of over time. They are vibration free and have been good in heavy rain. Still have 7/32 tread, wearing evenly and track straight. At replacement time I am seriously considering staying with them. At $50 tire less than the Michelin, not sure if I am really compromising.

txboy

I don't understand what is going on with Toyota. They start to get more and more complain and negative review. Like 5-10 years ago Camry was the king with no doubt. I love corolla, i have driven it for two years and didn't pay a cent to repair it. But I was so disappointed with the new Camry. 2012 model was good but this 2015 Camry just look like a big size Corolla. Can you tell which one is Camry?? Could any one who has test drove it give a comment about it?

akirby

Toyota is getting by with very few improvements to their volume models, relying on brand loyalty and reputation to continue driving sales and maximizing profits. If they go too long they'll get caught too far behind and they'll suffer for it, just like Detroit in the 90s.

suydam

Plain vanilla has always been the Toyota way. Doesn't seem to have hurt them so far.