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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006
    Effective today through the end of February, GM is offering three deals to any Toyota customer who wants to switch to a Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac or GMC product. The skinny:

    1. Lease Customers: Waiver of three payments up to $1,000
    2. Financing Customers: Zero percent financing for 60 months
    3. Cash Buyers: $1,000 purchase bonus


    Boy, didn't take GM long to react to the blood in the water.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    Kudos to GM for being agile on the incentives to steal some customers.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    it hard to believe a company like Toyota didn't learn the mistakes that GM made in regard to lying and covering stuff up and not admitting to their being a problem (GM before restructuring more specifically)

    I expect sales to increase with Toyota's major competitors now, i.e. Honda, Nissan, GM, Hyundai, and Ford because this thing is all over the news and its def going to affect people's buying decision
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,723
    how are those offers different from GM's others?
  • berriberri Posts: 4,202
    it hard to believe a company like Toyota didn't learn the mistakes that GM made in regard to lying and covering stuff up and not admitting to their being a problem (GM before restructuring more specifically)

    Unfortunately, not really. The banks and government just repeated a lot of the same mess that created the S&L debacle under George W's old man back in the 80's. Everyone thinks this time is different because of some new thing, but its not. The current mess wasn't supposed to happen because of the quant heads models - right! Ford seems to have misplayed the cruise control fire issues just like the Explorer problem before it. Honda looks to be doing some similar things with some of their vehicle issues.

    I expect sales to increase with Toyota's major competitors now, i.e. Honda, Nissan, GM, Hyundai, and Ford because this thing is all over the news and its def going to affect people's buying decision

    Short term, yes. Longer term, maybe not. Once the fix is made Toyota will be one of only a few vehicles that will have a brake override system in case of electronic glitches. If the newer models continue having fewer repair issues as the car ages, they will go back to being popular. If I was Honda, I wouldn't be all that delighted. This Toyota mess is going to get the press and media digging into import car stuff. There seem to be a lot of blogs and complaints about Honda failures like A/C systems, trannies, engines with VCM compalints or unexplained oil consumption, etc. Honda could well end up with some unflattering coverage as the Toyota issues die down. Bottom line IMO, if newer D3 models actually hold up better than previous models then eventually I see pricing getting closer and ToyHon sales people having to be more responsive to customers in the near future. Not such a bad thing really!
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006
    Don't know. I just copied it from the release. Maybe it's an additional $1000 on top of other rebates if you own a Toyota and possibly 0% across the lines vs. certain models. I'm not familiar with GMs offers prior to this announcement as I'm not really interested in a GM vehicle at this time.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    I got a very long, detailed email from a local Toyota dealer today, explaining the recalls and sales shutdown, and providing advice on what to do if my Toyota starts having problems with unintended acceleration. A pretty useful email overall, and nice to see that Toyota dealers are reaching out to their customers.

    Except.. I don't own a Toyota and haven't since 1984. :confuse: :surprise:
  • siramssirams Posts: 5
    Its ok for GM to benefit but not me as a consumer. Sounds like contradiction,
  • but did you buy that Toyota you had in 1984 at the same dealer who sent you the UI letter?

    As far as leaving the Lancer out of your list, backy, all I wanted to know was what was your reasoning on that, if there was any reason for it.I kind of suspected there wasn't an anti-Mitsu agenda going on there. Was just curious how you bunched the Lancer in with the rest of 'em and how you might differentiate it from the others, etc. I agree, it's off-topic 'cause the Lancer is a compact and not a midsize sedan, so let's definitely move on.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • So I have been lamenting that there is no viable manual transmission sport model midsize sedan right now. Either you go premium or entry level lux, or go compact. I think what annoyed me is I wanted heated leather seats and you can't get that from Ford, Mazda, Honda, or Toyota with a manual. This isn't a V6 or big engine even, this is just heated leather seats. So that leaves Subaru with the Legacy, and I really can't get myself to like the new one as much as the previous one, and VW Jetta which condemns me to a life of changing power window motors.
    While I realize I am a tiny portion of the market, once I am completely abandoned, my only criteria is price.
    Thankfully, as cars continue to get more and more dull, and doodads replace things like driving feel as we continue the dumbing down of transportation, there are still enough used vehicles that satisfy my wants...or they are inexpensive enough to allow for tailoring them to fit my wants. :)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    No. I think I bought a 1980 Corolla there, in late '79. Weird.

    So now that the Sephia is two names removed from the current Kia compact, you ever thought of changing your handle?

    What do you think of the 2011 Optima? Quite a departure from the current model, eh? Based on the styling of other new Kia models, I might like the looks of the Optima better than the 2011 Sonata. But kinda hard to tell with all the stealth cladding on the Optima spy pics.
  • tallman1tallman1 Posts: 1,874
    and you can't get that from Ford, Mazda, Honda, or Toyota with a manual.

    I feel your pain, although technically you can still get a V6 Accord Coupe EX-L with a manual. It is so sad that the I4 manual in the higher trims is gone. :cry:
  • judging from what I've seen I think it's gonna be a great looking new midsize sedan from Kia. And I like it better than the new 2011 Sonata. It is hard to tell from all the packaging, unfortunately. Here's an early look at the 2011 Kia Optima. With cladding.

    image

    image
    Kia Cadenza-another future Kia sedan-just a small notch larger than Optima

    And I was gonna switch my handle to iluvmylancergts but was persuaded not to by a few of the hosts. For reasons that are muddy in me mind right now. I still luv my '99 Kia Sephia, even though Kia is on the Forte name now. And the Forte sedan is the one I would buy if I jumped back to Kia Motors, though the new 2011 Kia Sportage design looks very, very nice. Kia and Hyundai never fail to amaze me. I noticed the talent, or the emerging capability coming from them, from the job they did building my '99 Sephia.

    The '01 Sportage 4X4 was a great little truck, too, and saved my butt in the snow and ice at least 3 times in the 6 years we owned it. The 4WD was nice to have. I'd still be driving South Korean today if not for this baby EVO that I saw on the internet in early 2007. The rest is history, as they say. :shades:

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    I'm on that tiny list of shoppers that would love a manual in a midsize car. It'd be nice to see a V6 model with a true 6-speed manual and the option to get it loaded. My '04 Mazda6 has the V6 and 5-speed, and is optioned out, and I love it.

    It'll be the last of the breed though, since I'll be replacing it this summer. :cry:

    Looks like I'll be looking for a weekend sports car sooner rather than later...
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    You can easily get aftermarket heated leather seats. Both are easy to install and it would give you more options on the car itself.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    ...VW Jetta which condemns me to a life of changing power window motors

    I've not heard of that being a problem on the current version. We have had no problems with windows on ours, which was built in the first few months of the new design in 2005. (Note that I did not say "no problems", there have been a few, just not with windows.)

    How do you feel about the DSG type transmissions? Ford will eventually, I assume, have that on the Fusion.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    I used to drive stick, but found it to be a pain in traffic, and the only advantage of having a stick, MPG, is now moot as the automatics get better ratings now. I used to drive 18 Wheelers, so manuals to me now are a thing of the past. Try driving on the Kennedy in an 18 in heavy traffic every day and you will not want to drive one ever again! :)
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,754
    Its ok for GM to benefit but not me as a consumer. Sounds like contradiction,

    You can benefit, just buy a GM with the incentives. :P
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    the only advantage of having a stick, MPG, is now moot

    What about people that simply enjoy shifting? I wouldn't drive a manual now as a daily commuter but you can bet my weekend fun car will have a stick.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    For fun yes, but when you put 500 miles or more a week on dealing with idiot drivers, the last thing I want to do is drive anywhere! :P In a Cobra, nothing better than a stick behind that 5.0. Get it in second, and drift down the road, wheels smokin, yep now thats fun.
  • You can easily get aftermarket heated leather seats. Both are easy to install and it would give you more options on the car itself.

    That is a thought. My Contour had an aftermarket sunroof, but it was a Websco which made the factory sunroof. The aftermarket one was actually slightly better, as it would automatically close if I turned the car off, and had one touch close with a pinch sensor. Never had an issue with it.

    I would consider the aftermarket heated seats but not if they were more expensive than the factory option. Or if they look cheesy. When I added driving lamps to cars in the past, I could at least track down the factory switch so it looked right from the inside.

    I think the Accord is to worthless right now as a trade in to get me into anything else anyway. At least it gets good MPG.
  • What about people that simply enjoy shifting?

    Hear hear. or here here. or whatever.

    I think we learned from the recent Toyota issue that if there is a computer between you and something mechanical, you aren't controlling it. DSG, SMG, "sport shift", wanna-be, whatever. If there is no clutch pedal, you aren't controlling it. Most people don't care, until now.

    Eh I didn't mean to go into too much of a rant, that should be on the "future of manual transmission" topic anyway.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Not sure why you think having a clutch would mean that there is not still a computer involved and in partial control of your car and I really don't get the connection to the Toyota issue as the problems (sticky pedal and floor mats) are related to mechanical issues, according to the company :confuse: .
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    "I think the Accord is to worthless right now as a trade in..."

    Looks like Ford will give you $1000 for it, if it is '95 or newer ;)
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,239
    As I've stated elsewhere I had a late 80s Mercury Topaz that suffered from this kind of problem. The engine would without warning start to rev to red line. I would run down the highway holding the brake to maintain 55MPH. I could shift into Neutral & pull to the side and turning the engine off/on would reset it.

    This was a manual-equipped car.

    Ford/Mercury recalled AT-equipped vehicles but not stick shifts. IIRC it was the ECU so yes, a computer glitch. I dumped the car as it was the least reliable car I'd ever owned anyway. The car knew it, too, as when I dropped it off to trade it in the drivers window got stuck down & must have came off it's track. :sick:
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    Do you suppose Ford (and GM and Hyundai for that matter) will take in trade right now one of the recalled Toyotas e.g. Camry, under the special conquest programs they have? I wonder about that. They couldn't in good conscience resell those cars, even on the auction market, until they are fixed.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006
    That is a very, very good question. They may take them in but they would probaly have to hold them until a fix. They would probably be way down the list for that fix I would imagine. I see Ford and Hyundai have also joined the fray. They must have some kind of plan for those trades.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Have used car sales departments at Toyota dealers stopped selling the models with the problems? They should know the law, so if they are selling them I would assume it is legal to do so.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    What's legal and what's ethical can be two different things.
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