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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The Sonata looks nothing like the LS 460 in the rear. Different strokes for different folks.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    You can go all the way back to later 80s and the Probes/MX6s - the V6s were all Ford 'Vulcan' engines while the (preferred) 4 bangers were Mazda. Not too many folks know that the Probe was originally intended to replace the Mustang or that the MX6 was a simple rebadge of the Probe which then in turn begat the 626 and the 6 - and the (unfortunately) close relationship that has existed there ever since

    The 91 & 92 Probe V6 used the Vulcan, the 93+ used a Mazda designed and sourced engine. The more powerful 2.2 liter turbo motor was a Mazda sourced engine as was the base n/a 4.This has been discussed before, along with Toyota still using the 22RE at this time. The Mazda 626 was introduced in 1979 so I don't see that as been influenced by the Probe which came out in 1989.
    Again, the 93+ (the GF) was originally set up to be a sedan with a coupe/hatch derivative. This time, both engines were sourced from Mazda (2.3l I4/2.5l V6,IIRC) while the rebadged Tribute got the 3L duratec that Captain so enjoys.

    Those that believe that anything with more than 4 cylinders (or rotors) are 'Mazda' engines are deluding themselves IMO.

    Thankfully, we know what they say about opinions :P
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    The front-end looks like an Accord with a Mazda emblem, the back looks like an LS460. It's clearly a step up in the styling dept IMO.

    I don't see Accord, I see IS250 or whatever the little RWD Lexus is called right now.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I think the rear looks like the Lexus 250. The front sort of looks like a TSX (hood and grill), but the arch on the front fenders is just too much, and doesn't seem to match the rest of the car.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    i couldn't reply to 'cap' because 'reply' was covered up by a cadillac ad.
    certainly a lot fuzzy recollections, there.
    i'm pretty sure the 3.5 and up DT are a different architecture than the 3.0 DT.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    the rebadged Tribute got the 3L duratec that Captain so enjoys.

    The 2003-2006 Mazda6 s also had the Ford Duratec30(200hp), with the addition of Mazda's VV-T (220hp).


    The new Duratec35 and 37 are not just bored/stroked versions of the Duratec30. The 35 and 37 are adaptable to direct injection and are equipped with VV-T. Also, fuel economy has been drastically improved. Preliminary figures have Mazda's 3.7L version getting 27mpg's and 270hp. The Duratec30 in the current Mazda6 is rated at 215hp and only gets 25mpg's.

    Duratec is just Ford's name for their DOHC engines. Their current 4 cyl "Duratec" named engines are Mazda designed DOHC engines.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    No resemblence in the rear? Moreso I think than the 2009 Mazda6 to the Accord.

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    No, Other than both have trunks, I do not see a resemblence.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    There's also the fact that Lexus put the white lenses on top, and Hyundai put them on the bottom.

    How about this? The resemblence would be closer with the 2009 Sonata, as it has a mostly red lens.


  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm trying, but all I see are some tail lights, trunk and exhausts. If anything Sonota has copied Lexus on the designs.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Uhm... that would have been very hard to do since the current Sonata rear-end design debuted in 2004. So I'm not sure where the "copying" remark came from (hard to copy something if the copy doesn't look anything like the original), but since you see evidence of copying, there's only one direction that could have taken... ;)

    One thing about the new Mazda6--it's really hard to pen a fresh design in the mid-sized sedan world, but I think Mazda did as good a job as any recent re-design on that score.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Uhm... that would have been very hard to do since the current Sonata rear-end design debuted in 2004

    Oh I thought it debuted in 2006. The Lexus IS debuted in 2005. I doubt they copied the sheetmetal too close to change the styling of the car.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Since the 2006 Sonata tail lights were an obvious copy of the 2003 Accord's tail lights, I don't see how anyone can claim someone else copied the 06 Sonata's tail lights.

    As far as the pictures of the Lexus and the Sonata, the lights are (mostly) red, and are both on the rear corners of the car. I don't see any other similarities.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    No, the current-gen Sonata was first available in the ROK in the fall of 2004 and in the U.S. in early 2005, as a 2006 MY car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    I'm glad to see more people are waking up to the fact that the Accord is a superior car to the Camry.

    I heard a report on the radio today that said GM is planning to build about 90,000 fewer large trucks and SUVs this year than last year--a move that is related to the numbers in the article.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Good article kd
    And they said the 08 Accord was too big. :confuse: Not for those people down-sizing from SUVs and trucks. Seems a lot of these consumers are buying the V6 model, and VCM is part of the attraction. It even outsold the F150!
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Great to see any car in the top sales spot. Given a choice between Accord and Camry, I'd rather see the Accord up there as I'd rather they be the model that other manufacturers look to emulate, rather than the Camry.

    Edmunds needs better editors, though. The article says: Honda was the only brand with three vehicles on the Top 10 Best-Selling Vehicle list. but there are three Toyotas in the top 10, as well (Camry, Corolla, Prius).
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    The new Duratec35 and 37 are not just bored/stroked versions of the Duratec30. The 35 and 37 are adaptable to direct injection and are equipped with VV-T. Also, fuel economy has been drastically improved
    Point to whatever you would like but the result is still the same - a substandard engine (relative to things like the Toyota/Nissan/Hyundai engines). The 'old' DT while it might have had the right number of camshafts and even the 'right' architecture was and is a poor excuse for an engine these days, besides being seriously short in the HP dept. it is noted for primarily its lack of refinement. Fast forward to the too late 3.5/3.7 and yes with a 30% displacement increase we do see some reasonable (and competitive) HP but the same lack of refinement and ALSO an apparent increase in appetite. You'll see these kind of comments pretty regularly in expert reviews and not just based on my own experience 500-/Fusion for the 3.0 or the 3.5 with a Edge. Specifically look over the February issue of CR and its test of the Taurus - the second rate nature of the 3.5 and the fact that FE is DOWN with the new engine are both discussed at some length. So which to believe, the spec sheets or actual tests and experiences - I know I know publications like CR all have it in for poor old Ford, despite ranking the Fusion near the top in this category despite the engine 'insufficiences'. And yes, I'll freely admit to a anti- Ford bias when it comes to what they did to Mazda :cry: and I do feel sorry for those folks that might be stuck with a 'new and improved' DT3.0 in the next Fusion, the more things change the more they stay the same
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Reviews for the Mazda CX-9, which utilizes the Mazda built 3.7L has nothing but wonderful reviews, including praise for refinement under the hood, fuel economy expected for the amount of power it has and the weight of the vehicle it pulls. There is no negative remarks involved with the power train what so ever. First indications are that this is the engine that Mazda will use in the 6.
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