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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    Ummmm.....N is to the left,not the right.There is nowhere to go on the right,that is where the little shift lever is all the time.Also you never put a moving car into Park.
    I do own a 2007 Prius. and have read the manual.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    edited March 2010
    Yeah, maybe they'll stick the 2.7L V6 from the current Optima into the new one. :P

    I don't think the Optima will get a V6 if the Sonata doesn't. I think it's likely the two cars have the same platform--it's reported they will be built on the same assembly line in the U.S., with the Kia line shifting to all-SUVs (Sorrento and new Santa Fe). The Sonata is not designed to hold a V6, so the Optima might be similar. But maybe there will be a turbo variant like the Sonata. Probably not a hybrid, though. But you never know.

    I can't say for sure I like the Optima better than the Sonata styling-wise until I see the Optima in person, but it does look sharp in the photo. But I think the Sonata looks good also, albeit with a much different styling approach.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006
    edited March 2010
    1. The wheels are butt ugly in this picture which I know could be easily changed and probably are not what the final product will wear. But they are so ugly they deserve comment. Maybe look better on a GTI.

    2. Not enough pictures and aspects to determine if it looks better than a Sonata IMO. I'll hold my preliminary opinion until a lot more good quality pictures are available and from every angle.

    3. Doubt if the V6 will show up. Maybe a higher output version of the turbo I4 possibly and some real sport suspension. They are using the same frame as the Sonata and one way Hyundai reduced weight on the Sonata was by not having to beef the frame to hold a V6.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    edited March 2010
    http://motortrend.automotive.com/133446/112-1005-best-selling-midsize-family-sed- - - - an-comparison/index.html

    It seems to me that the Camry won because they think middle American will like it the most - quiet, smooth ride, easy to drive, simple controls, and overall just the epitome of a basic, boring, but decent sedan. Fun to drive- no, stylish-no, lots of included features-No ... it is just a basic decent car for the millions of drones in this country that get about as much enjoyment out of their car as they do their microwave.

    I could have *maybe* lived with the Fusion being the #1 over a 2011 Sonata, although really the SEL trim compares more closely to the Sonata Limited in terms of price and purpose. And when you do that comparison, the Sonata offers a lot more. The SE is a sports-tuned mid level sedan which purposely gives up a small bit of the quiet ride for improved handling - which it accomplished - by having the best track numbers even over the Fusion and Altima. And the lack of an auto-manual on the supposedly sporty Fusion is just ridiculous. For the criteria that MT was judging (which is the best sedan for the family/predicted 2010 best seller) the Limited is clearly better for that purpose than the SE.

    Also, why was the "price as tested" $26,000 for the SE? Apparently they got it with the Nav and sunroof, which still only brings it equal to the price of the Fusion SEL without a Nav. I would be willing to bet that sunroof has something to do with the supposed weight being 3316 lbs. instead of 3199 lbs. in the GLS and only getting 8.1 seconds 0-60 (still the best of the cars in the test but it is much better than 8.1 in reality).. Besides the Fusion looks like a Mach3 razor and the Camry is probably one of the worst looking car in the whole group.. look at those 16 inch rims with 5 huge boring spokes- disgusting!!

    Of the Camry -
    The materials and build quality suggest this could be the priciest car in the group, when in fact it's the cheapest (though equipping an SE to match our Sonata would cost almost $32,000).

    As we don our Ma 'n' Pa Middle America hats and take a walk around this Toyota, we can't help being impressed by the gigantic back seat, huge trunk opening, and breathtakingly simple cockpit ergonomics.

    "Okay, steering feel and handling prowess are not outstanding, but when you hustle this slice of milquetoast, it shrugs off road imperfections and carves through turns just fine. There's lots of chassis roll but no loss of control. Seemingly excels at nothing, yet it really excels at everything. A driving enthusiast might want a more involving and athletic machine, but for 99 percent of buyers shopping in this category, the Camry simply nails the mission profile."



    Milquetoast - A good word to describe the Camry. Enjoy it, soccer moms.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006
    Kelley Blue Book now reports that the automaker now holds the Number One spot in brand loyalty, with 56.3 percent of Hyundai owners looking within the brand for new car purchases. Honda continues to hold the second place rank at 55.8 percent, and Toyota, in light of its recent recall woes, is down 4.4 percentage points to 53.3 percent, putting it in the third place spot.

    This one statistic really says a lot. Toyota was #1 before the recent turmoil.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006
    I know some soccer moms that drive Sonatas. What does that mean? My daughter drives a Camry and I would hardly call her a drone. Why do you have to denigrate people for what they drive? Slam the cars if you like, don't slam the owners.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,727
    I know there are many people who will not believe that statistic, because when they think of "Hyundai" they still think of the Excel and Jay Leno jokes. It is a great example of how cars change, and times change.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    One more followup in case you haven't heard. Here is an excerpt from the news conference:

    Data from on-board computers indicated that Sikes had applied the brakes and gas pedal, alternately, at least 250 times during the incident, Toyota engineers said.

    Edmunds.com has independently tested Prius cars similar to Sikes and confirmed that the engine would stay engaged if the brakes were only pressed lightly but not hard enough to actually stop or slow the car, said Dan Edmunds, head of auto testing for the automotive Web site Edmunds.com.

    "If you're just riding the brakes, it will ride the brakes," he said.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006
    Hey, did you notice off to the right. The 2010 Passat is rated a perfect 10. :confuse: Oh, only two reviews though. ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    edited March 2010
    I agree. Drones? :confuse I wish I could be as successful as Toyota to design, test, manufacture and sell millions of copies to "drones".

    I recently rented a Camry SE and really liked it. The Camry has come a long way since the days of "sloppy" handling. I don't feel the need to go test driving every midsize sedan out there. I have a few considerations, but there is the possibility of buying one. I can be a "drone" and I'm okay with it.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    I agree. Drones? I wish I could be as successful as Toyota to design, test, manufacture and sell millions of copies to "drones".

    You're right. "Drones" isn't the correct word at all...

    I'm thinking along the lines of, say, lemmings.

    I recently rented a Camry SE and really liked it. The Camry has come a long way since the days of "sloppy" handling. I don't feel the need to go test driving every midsize sedan out there.

    Those two sentences only prove that you should be testing other midsize sedans. You'll quickly discover just how inferior the Camry handles compared to just about every other choice on the market today, while the competition matches or exceeds the smooth ride that the Camry supposedly leads in as well.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    edited March 2010
    The Camry is a good, utilitarian, easy to drive car, but I don't see how it is better than either the 2011 Sonata or the Fusion in most respects other than being quiet. I would like to see people really consider some of the alternatives to the Accord/Camry and realize how many great competitors are out there. The more people buy from competitive brands, the more Toyota and Honda will have to step up and start producing cars that are a good value again instead of adding $3000+ for the brand name on cars with less features. Neither the Camry or Accord is fun, sporty, or particularly stylish, especially in 4-cylinder trims. The older model Sonata is also nice inside and roomy with soft, floaty handling and not a lot of power - exactly what a soccer mom is looking for in a car.

    This might be nice for some people, but it's nice to see a few automakers actually care about performance, style, and handling, so dad can enjoy driving the car too - not just mom.

    yes Mz6, Lemmings is a good word. I was thinking like zombies flocking to the Toyota dealer year after year without evening thinking of the other brands.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006
    Well, I see you like to call people names too. Oh, well.

    If you would have read his post closely you would have noticed that he said "I don't feel the need to go test driving every midsize sedan out there". Did he say he wasn't going to test any other midsize sedans? How many people test every single car in the class they are looking in before buying? Narrow it down, test drive a few and buy a car.

    Does the Camry handle softer and with more body roll than most of the others in the family midsize ranks? Sure. Is that bad to the millions that buy it...no. I, for one, am not a big fan of Camry or the way it handles but I'm getting a little tired of the holier than thou types that like to put other people down for liking the way a particular car handles.

    I'm sure that there are so called enthusiasts on other forums that would probably call anybody that drives any family midsize sedan lemmings or drones. Does it make them right or does make them appear to be just blinded by their own bias? Like I said, bash the car, not the buyers.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Sloppy" is not really my term but I guess the soft suspension of prior years and sloppy go together. I guess I could test drive an Accord as well, the last model I drove was an '07.

    As far as how inferior the Camry is...I didn't feel it inferior. BTW Camry wouldn't be for me directly.
  • At first glance it could be mistaken for a BMW. Somehow, from the picture it "looks" like a sturdier car than the Sonata. The front makes me think of a truck...I don't know why...and I definitely do not like the wheels. But other than that it looks nice. I think the side view is much better.

    I also like that the front end appears to be "not too close to the ground". The front of the Sonata looks really low to me...I hope it does okay in the snow.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    I have a Sonata SE, and it did very well in the snow. I even drove 50 miles in a blizzard we had here a few weeks ago and once the car is moving I don't remember slipping once. Getting out of an icy, snowed in parking spot took a bit of shoveling to get the car moving though.. after that it was perfect.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    Well, I see you like to call people names too. Oh, well.

    Huh? :confuse:

    I'm getting a little tired of the holier than thou types that like to put other people down for liking the way a particular car handles.

    And I'm getting tired for being wrongly accused of insulting others when I happen to have a different opinion than others in this forum. I'm also getting tired of the masses of car buyers that default to Toyota and Honda, when just about every other midsize car on the market at least matches (if not exceeds) the ability/advantages that these cars supposedly have. I can honestly say that the 1% of car buyers that also are members of Carspace don't fit into that category, but the majority of the other 99% of car buyers are, IMO, lemmings, just following the crowd without expanding their horizons.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    You can't be serious.It's just car talk man,lighten up.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    edited March 2010
    You can't be serious.It's just car talk man,lighten up.

    You're right, I do need to lighten up. I think that some others on this forum should do so as well.

    On topic:There's a local car dealer that sells Hyundai, and his latest batch of TV commercials show him comparing a white 2011 Sonata bumper-to-bumper with a white Mercedes C-class. To me, they look nothing alike, nor do I think a Sonata would be mistaken for a Mercedes C-class. I know he's out to sell cars, hence the comparison, but do they really look alike? Opinions?
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    edited March 2010
    2011 Hyundai Sonata GLS vs. 2010 Honda Accord vs. 2010 Mazda 6i Touring

    IL has finally called the Sonata the "benchmark" in this one. Congrats to them. The Mazda is considered the drivers car (no surprise), and the Honda, well, it just was there.

    They tested cars with manuals exclusively this time, that's bound to ruffle some feathers on this board... :P
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    OK, Now that I haven't heard, of course had I heard that before I posted, I wouldn't have posted ! :D In that case, give that sumbiotch a ticket for speeding and filing a false police report.

    Oh It has been 2 years since I drove a Prius, so I got the h backwards, but you can still press the park button while driving, and it will put it into neutral until it slows to under 3MPH. In a last ditch attempt if the car is running away, which after seeing what you posted(BTW Link to story would be nice), doesn't seem possible in the Prius, pressing the Park button is an option to get it out of gear.

    How do I know this? I did it quite by mistake one day, don't know what I was doing, but I reached out to do something on the MFD and pressed Park instead. Car went into neutral, did not engage the park pawl, I put it back into D. A couple times I hit the power button instead of park, and it put it in park before shutting down.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    I can tell you that the Fusion does hold one thing above all the others. The AWD version, none of the others have one. So when it comes to all the midsized sedans in this price range, only Ford can be #1 in that respect, since it is the only 1.

    V6 Camry vs Fusion Sport, Sport wins, the Camry may be quicker, but the Fusion out handles it. Camry=BORING Fusion Sport=Exciting. I have driven both, the Ford is definitely the better of the two. The one and only thing I miss about the Camry is the Smart key system. I certainly do not miss that overly bright center console, especially in foggy weather. The Ford does need some improvement, basically in ergonomics, too many buttons in the center stack, a little clean up in that area would go a long way.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm also getting tired of the masses of car buyers that default to Toyota and Honda, when just about every other midsize car on the market at least matches (if not exceeds) the ability/advantages that these cars supposedly have

    Here's the deal, when you buy me my next car you can buy me what you want and I'll drive it. Until then, I am entitled to have my opinions about what I want to buy and spend my money the way I want to.

    That post wasn't directed specifically toward me, but I find it funny that a remark would be made like that, given that nobody is stepping up to the plate to give the car of their choice to another fellow.
  • On topic:There's a local car dealer that sells Hyundai, and his latest batch of TV commercials show him comparing a white 2011 Sonata bumper-to-bumper with a white Mercedes C-class. To me, they look nothing alike, nor do I think a Sonata would be mistaken for a Mercedes C-class. I know he's out to sell cars, hence the comparison, but do they really look alike? Opinions?

    There's a resemblance, but the Sonata has a more streamlined look.

    Those who've seen my black 2011 Sonata GLS are amazed that it's a Hyundai. I don't know if they thought it was a Mercedes but they sure didn't think it was the same old conservative, boring Hyundai Sonata
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    I don't think the Sonata looks anything like a C-class. To me it's more a cross between the E-class and CLS from the outside--haven't seen the interior yet. I'm looking forward to eyeballing it in more depth.

    In past years Hyundai has maintained a large presence at the Atlanta auto show, which will open this weekend. I'll post my reactions when I get back.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,006
    The new 2011 Ford Mustang GT with 412hp was just rated by the EPA at 18city/26hwy. The 272hp Mazda V6 comes in with 17city/25hwy. People on here have often commented that the reason the Mazda6 doesn't do so well is the gearing. I would imagine the Mustang is geared for a similar type of experience. Why can't Mazda get better results?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    And the mustang weighs 200 lbs more to boot. Same axle ratio - 3.33. For some reason Mazda has never had good fuel economy. Ford is using Variable Cam Timing on both intake and exhaust and runs a higher than normal compression ratio (11.0 vs. 10.3 for Mazda).

    Expect the Fusion 3.5L to get the new engine tech at some point which will boost it to 280 hp or so.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    edited March 2010
    Same final gearing or not, the transmissions are different. I guess the Mustang runs a few hundred revs lower @ 60 MPH compared to the 6. Mazda has always kept their gearing higher so downshifts aren't a requirement when passing. I'm also sure that the V8 has plenty of low-end torque, vastly superior to the V6, and I'll also bet that Ford took extra care to maximize the highway fuel economy in the exact conditions that the EPA tests it.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,213
    Forget the V8 in the '11 Mustang. The new 305 HP 3.7L V6 in the '11 Mustang is rated at 19/31 city/hwy (auto tranny). This is nearly the same engine that only gets 17/25 in the Mazda6 but with about 30 more horses and more torque.
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