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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    Since you were looking at $30k+ V6 vehicles, you might have checked out the Avalon, Maxima, Azera, Taurus, and even the Genesis 3.8. They would be much more comparable in price to the Venza V6 and you would have probably appreciated their power and luxury. It appears to me you bought the Venza without doing an apples-to-apples comparison of similarly-priced sedans.
  • csandstecsandste Posts: 1,866
    edited March 2010
    You sound like the recent Motor Trend comparo which stated that the new Sonata trailed the last one in some ways and favored the Camry (Sonata third, Fusion second, Camry first out of eight? cars). This sure came as a surprise to me and (apparently) MT as well-- they didn't expect the Camry to win but it did.

    I'd rented a new Corolla last summer and thought it was much less pleasant and had far poorer build quality than the last gen. Corolla-- far cheaper than the competition. Apparently the Camry/Venza is cheapened less than the smaller car.

    This may have been discussed earlier. Don't get around to this thread as much as I used to since my car (the Optima) has been dropped as a subject header.

    Suggestion-- Since the Aura is no more and there's a new gen. Optima about to be launched is there any way to get that back in the mix?
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230

    This may have been discussed earlier. Don't get around to this thread as much as I used to since my car (the Optima) has been dropped as a subject header.


    It's still a midsize sedan, right? We can still chat about not only the Optima, but the Legacy, the Kizashi, and even the Avenger/Sebring (on a very slow, I'm-desperate-enough-to-talk-about-ANY-midsize-sedan day :) ).

    Stick around for a while, we're relatively harmless... ;)

    And we've been waiting for months for an Aura replacement, but our requests seem to fall on deaf ears...
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    I got my May C/D today and skimmed over the comparo of the Legacy, Accord, and Sonata. I'll read it in depth when I get more time, but the #1 question in my mind is, will C/D back up their direct comparison results by making the Sonata one of their 10Best next year, in place of the Accord, which has been on that list for, what, 758 years in a row? I don't think they have ever put a Korean car on their 10Best list. (MT has put a Korean car as high as runner-up for their COTY.) So that would be a milestone of sorts.

    Or I suppose C/D could test the 2011 Optima and actually like it better than the Sonata, and make it a 10Best selection. ;)
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    The Genesis won M/T Car of the year when it came out, I am anxious to see what C/D has to say about the new Sonata though. If anyone finds it online, post a link
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    No, the Genesis sedan was runner-up for the MT COTY to the Nissan GT-R. You might be thinking of the Genesis being named the North American COTY.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,830
    we are all anxiously waiting for the next edition of Crap & Drivel ;)
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    edited March 2010
    Since you were looking at $30k+ V6 vehicles, you might have checked out the Avalon, Maxima, Azera, Taurus, and even the Genesis 3.8

    We actually had looked at these (not the avalon as we had no interest in a toytota product) prior to deciding on a venza. From driving the venza to buying the venza was about one week. We ruled out the nissans because of the CVT - didn't want that; we didn't drive the taurus, but thought it was overpriced and unattractive, and we thought the genesis was nice, but didn't want to spend more than $30k. The 6 cyl venza with premium package, tow packge, rear bumper protector and a few other things was just under $30 OTD using the USAA purchase program. We couldn't approach that in the genesis.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,830
    i'm not stranger to looking at one thing buying another, but your decision, which i hope you are happy with, seems kind of random.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    It wasn't just random. We'd been exploring for about a year before actually buying. We looked at a variety of scenarios and options. When we saw what was available in the sedan market we'd have bought a camry without a doubt - not a fusion or sonata. But for a couple thousand more we got a much nicer vehicle. And yes, that was just what WE wanted to do. Others may not even consider it.

    But it looks to me like hyundai focused on an electronics package for youths with a car built around it focusing on "green" or "saving the planet". We're conservative christians and take care of the earth it, but don't worship and we don't talk on the phone or text while driving so those things didn't matter to us. IF the 2011 sonata had a 6 cyl option this year, I genuinely think we may have purchased it and probably not have even gone to the toyota dealer, but who knows. We're happy with our decision and that's what is important to us.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    I bet you could have talked the dealer into giving you $3000 off to make the base Genesis $30K. The Venza is a nice car but not a mid-sized sedan, I am glad you found something you like though.

    Also I assure you the 2011 Sonata is definitely faster than the Camry XLE.. and the GDI is very peppy. And if the 0-60 is close, wait until you got to some turns and you would know who is going to win that race, especially if it's the SE. And if you equiped the Camry XLE to have most of the same features as the Sonata Limited, it would come to $29K vs. $25,295. I think you were looking for more of a quiet cruiser type of vehicle though.
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    Lemme get this straight: you objected to the Genesis because it's "too green"? And what does Christianity have to do with this decision?????
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,830
    guess i hit a nerve there. of course, that was my purpose.
    i did notice that you were against the Hyundai 4 cyl even before it was available.
    we are both old dogs, but i am still able to learn new tricks. :P
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    edited March 2010
    Lemme get this straight: you objected to the Genesis because it's "too green"?

    No. I think the sonata was built for "greenies", not the genesis. My wife teaches and the youth seem to worship the earth - that's where the "greenies" comment came from.
    On the USAA website, I could not get a genesis near 30k OTD or may have considered it. I was also buying safety to protect myself from Tiffannee (with two e's) while she is busy driving and texting her friend asking where she was at (ending her sentence with a preposition, of course) :)

    I, too, am an old dog, but am not afraid of learning new tricks. But staying safe so I can learn scuba is important to me. USAA says talking on the cell phone while driving is as dangerous as driving while impaired. I'll learn my new tricks while staying safe.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    I think the Sonata was designed to cope with the upcoming fuel economy regs--lighter weight than most mid-sized sedans, I4 engines only, etc. Hyundai seems very focused on meeting/exceeding those targets ahead of the mandated schedule. I suppose that could be characterized as "green", although Hyundai would probably call it "blue", per the "blue" versions of some of their cars that get higher fuel economy.

    On the Genesis, another route to that if you really wanted one would be to get a slightly used one for under your $30k target that would actually have a longer bumper-to-bumper warranty than your Venza. :)
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    edited March 2010
    I'm sure hyundai gave a lot of thought to their decisions and I believe it will prove to be wise. For us, we had only one vehicle to worry about, not a company or business or anything to that extent.

    We weren't interested in anything used and for the warranty, we got a lifetime powertrain warranty. It's probably only at the dealership - I failed to even ask that - but we don't plan on moving anyway. I think it is more likely that toyota will restructure itself under a different name/brand or something when the full effect of the lawsuits hits them. Foreign owned and no union labor? What were they thinking!! :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,830
    maybe you should have posted on the 'why i did not buy a mid size sedan forum'.
    you will have to start that one. :surprise:
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    Actually, there is probably a lot to be said for that. For the midsize sedan to be the bread and butter for auto manufacturers, I think they may miss the mark a bit. Looking purely at the 6 cyl side (as I didn't look at 4 cyl) I see a lot of issues. For me, and perhaps only me, some of the things that turned me off on the brands I looked at were:

    Nissan - CVT (they own you if you ever have transmission problems and good luck when you want to sell it AND don't let the IRS make your options packages for you as they are too complex)
    Toyota - history of 6 speed transmission issues (I don't see the UA as a problem, but as a government/lawyer issue - again, only me)
    Honda - VCM problems
    Ford - 6 speed transmission unsure what gear it is to be in
    Mazda - didn't really look at them as I once owned an RX-7 and don't want to ever deal with mazda again
    Chrysler - speaks for itself. Lifetime warranty? For the car or the company?

    Perhaps a "why I did not buy a midsize sedan" OR "what consumers are searching for in a midsize sedan" would be a good idea. As for me, I don't plan to buy anything for at least five more years.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    All of those issues, to the extent they are an issue for you, are surely not unique to midsize sedans. Does your Venza, being, I assume, essentially a Camry wagon, not have the same transmission that Toyota puts in the Camry?
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    Does your Venza, being, I assume, essentially a Camry wagon, not have the same transmission that Toyota puts in the Camry?

    These were issues for ME and my views only, not necessarily anyone elses. As for the transmission - it does indeed have the camry drivetrain. I stated they have a "history" of 6 speed transmission problems. I believe the issues to be resolved and am not worried about it. Again, just my view of it. Not saying I'm right or wrong, but I felt comfortable enough about it to "put my money where my mouth is" on this one.
  • xmechxmech Posts: 90
    Ford - 6 speed transmission unsure what gear it is to be in


    ??? Got a 2010 Fusion (My first Ford, always stayed away from them in the past< but that's another story) and the transmission never seems to hunt or anything. Works as I expect it to, downshifts when I need it, etc...
  • aqua33v6aqua33v6 Posts: 38
    As for the "wind noise" on the 2010 Sonata? I've driven just about every car in the midsize class, and the 2006 - 2010 Sonatas are very quiet. On the freeway at 70MPH I have been very impressed with their low wind and road noise. The '06 to '10 Sonatas are just as quiet as any newer Camry I've driven or ridden in (and I have very sharp hearing). I own a 2006 Sonata, and its quietness is one of its many strengths.

    About the 2011 Sonata, you said in a post earlier today:

    "We were rather disappointed. We thought it was cheaply built..."

    ...but then just a couple hours later, you follow that up with:

    "IF the 2011 sonata had a 6 cyl option this year, I genuinely think we may have purchased it"

    Gee, the car sure feels cheaply built... but it has a V6, so I'll buy it anyway! Sorry, I'm just having a hard time calculating this. Genuinely - a real hard time.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    OK. Last post for me. Apparently my views are not the same as others... but that's what helps make the world go 'round. Fortunately, we obligated only our finances, are responsible only to ourselves and are pleased with our decision.

    We had followed the sonata for more than a year. We toured the hyundai plant just south of Montgomery (perhaps someone can find out if it is actually within the city limits and bring this to my attention). We pretty much had our hearts set on a sonata and thus the "attachment" to the sonata. First we'd been "excited" about a new car in quite some time. All the hype. All the ads. Etc. Had the sonata come with a 6 cylinder, we most likely could have or would have overlooked a number of other things we didn't care for (I know... how could you not care for something? Why don't you point out what they are? and I've seen the new sonata and there's nothing someone couldn't care for... etc, etc) For us.. and us alone... the ONLY midsize car we cared for was the toyota camry - and we didn't even plan on looking at a toyota. We had never heard of or seen a venza until we pulled into the toyota dealership. (I'm sure someone would like to know how we didn't know about the venza..etc..etc.. The venza isn't a midsize sedan... Did you know they make them in Kentucky where they still have moonshiners?... etc etc) We put a lot of thought into it over the following week. We COULD have purchased a 2010 6 cyl camry XLE for less than a 2011 sonata limited (I know....how can one compare those 2 cars? they aren't the same years... etc, etc, etc) and the 2011 6 cyl camry XLE for not much more than the 2011 sonata. After looking at and driving the camry, fusion and sonata we ruled out the latter two. After we saw the venza and drove it, we opted to look into it. For a couple thousand more we felt we got a far better vehicle than we could have with a midsize car. It takes us a while to save $30 and thus we didn't want to exceed it. We could have bought a more expensive car, but we set our limit at $30k OTD. (Now the financial experts can point out the benefits of zero percent for five years from toyota, or lease vs. buy or whatever makes you happy). We have no debt and wanted no debt. We wanted the best midsize sedan we could get for $30k or less out the door and believe we got a far superior vehicle for our $30k budget. We are happy (I know we could be happier if we had just followed someone else's advice or if we had just done this or that). Forgive me if I offended anyone's logic or decision making processes, but I just thought I'd share MY experiences with the midsize sedan and why we opted NOT to go that route.
  • xmechxmech Posts: 90
    I know this debate has died down some so I'm sorry if I'm dragging it back out, but here's why many people, like me, aren't fond of purchasing used:

    Why I prefer to buy new
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    My only point was that what I interpreted as your list of issues with midsize sedans are not unique to the midsize sedan offerings. They appear to be mostly engine/transmission issues and the same engines/transmissions are, of course, used in vehicles other than the midsize sedan from these manufacturers.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    edited March 2010
    It took me a few seconds to figure out your point with that link...first I was thinking that your concern was that guy's transmission "issue" :D
  • shabadoo25shabadoo25 Posts: 216
    Congrats on your purchase, and thanks for sharing your decision making criteria.

    I don't think most buyers in this day and age, and especially in the favorite demo of marketers, use the same reasoning you do, but it's still interesting to hear it.

    Enjoy your new vehicle!
  • rwdfanrwdfan Posts: 15
    Hi guys, I have to replace my commuting car in July this year and I have a short list of contenders after researching and test driving a few of those. My list: 2010 Honda Civic LX, 2010 Ford Fusion EX, 2010 Chevy Malibu, 2010 (yes, the older model) Sonata. My concerns: The Civic will go through a redesign for MY 2011, therefore, I'm not sure, my budget is no more than $18,000 OTD (perhaps I would have to buy the Fusion or the Maliby as used cars with less than 25K miles on them). Yesterday, driving through a Sonata dealer, I saw a GLS automatic for less than $15,000 with 72 months financing at 0%. I never had a Hyundai, but it's getting difficult to pass this price level, the car itself has several things standard that the others don't and perhaps by July, there will be additional discount for the ones left on the lot ;) Anyway, they had about a dozen of those in the lot, I don't think they will sell all of them unless they add more discount. Any thoughts ? Anyone has a 2009/10 Sonata GLS 4 cyl. and could provide some insight ? Thank you.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I couldn't find a GLS Automatic in Birmingham, AL because they were selling faster than I could get to them. I wanted a 2010 GLS with the Popular Equip. Package but the closest one I could find was in Columbus, GA and it was priced about $1,000 higher than what you're looking at here in the SE. Birmingham only had Limited models left, best I could tell.

    I'd go with the Sonata; the depreciation hit has really already happened in part, but you still get a brand new car without the worry of who abused it before-hand.

    Go test-drive one. :)
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Posts: 804
    Here's a link to an interesting article on msnbc.com

    Sonata Article
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