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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    The Azera is a way better car than the Altima, especially when it comes to smooth/comfortable ride. The Altima is more sporty, but that's not what the poster was looking for. The Azera has way more room inside, better materials, standard leather, and lots of other features that would option the Altima out to be as much money or more with less features. Azera even has rain sensing wiper blades.

    As far as the Sonata, the rear headroom is fine unless you are a giant. And is that the only thing you have to knock about a car starting at $19,000 with 200 HP, best in class fuel economy, standard bluetooth/iPod/ESC, and better styling than any other midsize? As someone else said, it's not the 90's anymore - Hyundai has arrived to the major leagues.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The headroom in the back of the Sonata is fine for me, but the legroom in the back of the Altima is not. I'm 6'5".
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Surprisingly enough, yes we did. The guys I had with me were looking at all the tiny little cars, like the Mini, and XB, so I am surprised we didn't see the Suzukis. I guess Chevy just didn't have the Volt being displayed too well, because we sure didn't see it's display, and we looked at the Chevys, briefly, the Fords had better styling and a better display.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    Getting a good deal does not cheapen what you purchase.I happen to own a 4 year old KIA Optima EX...loaded it listed at around $23K and it has been flawless.Great gas mileage on the highway,comfortable and as tight today as it was on the day we bought it.There is nothing CHEAP about it.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    I think the new turbo charged engines being put out by Ford and Hyundai have people thinking back to the old days with huge turbos sitting on top of the engine and the turbo whine heard when flooring it. The new engines have tiny little turbos, the impellers are less than 2" in diameter, the turbos are set low down under the exhaust manifold, are water cooled, and integrated into the engine design, not added to an existing engine. It makes a big difference in knowing that. No longer do you need cool down cycles, turbo lag is nearly non existent, and gas mileage has greatly improved.

    I have a Flex with the Ecoboost V6. In normal driving, it drives just like its non turbo model, but when you put the pedal down, it moves like a bat out of hell. So far the MPG is right about where I expected it to be, just slightly better than I got with the 3.8 V6 in the Veracruz. Of course if I lay in the coal that drops considerably, but in normal driving, you don't need to do that. My insurance rate on the Flex is no higher than it would be for the standard Flex. In fact it is lower than that for my Fusion Sport.

    I believe reliability in these new engine designs will be much better than had they just added a turbo to a standard engine. It make a big difference if it is part of the initial design, which the Hyundai I4 DI, and the Ford Twin Turbo DI V6. Ford also has an I4 DI Turbo, which should be available soon in some models.

    Oh, there is no turbo whine either, if you didn't know it had a turbo, or two, you wouldn't know it had turbos. In fact there is no boost gauge on the dash, and the only thing on the entire car that lets you know it has turbos is the Ecoboost badge on the tailgate.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    edited April 2010
    I wouldn't bother trying to convince someone that had a bad experience with a brand years ago and will continue to bash that brand no matter how much they improve. It's called someone with a closed mind.

    People were the same way when Hondas first came to the US. They were(for the first few years) tincan rustbuckets and needed alignment every time you hit an expansion strip. There were people well into the 80s basing them even after they had improved tremendously. There will always be some of those people around. They are easy to spot and it just doesn't pay to attempt an intelligent discussion with them.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    The Volt was kind of in the back of the display area :confuse:

    They were playing up the Cruse for the second year in a row. How many times is GM going to display this thing up on a pedestal without letting anyone sit in it??? It's been in production in Europe for what, a year? Anticipation like that works better for ketchup!
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Interesting information on modern turbos.

    The only time I test drove a car with a turbo it was a used ~2000 Jetta with the 1.8T. Would that fall in your "old school" category? To me it was not too bad, but there was some lag.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    edited April 2010
    I just read that the new 2011 Optima, which is supposed to be arriving at dealership in early fall, will have the new Microsoft UVO system. This is very similar to the SYNC system that MS partnered w/ Ford on.

    By the way, the new Optima looks great from the limited pics I've seen but the wheels they show on the model are fugly. Anyway, I wonder why Hyundai isn't getting this system at the same time or even sooner. Maybe to create a little more hoopla around the new Optima when it arrives?

    Also read that the base engine across all Optimas will be the 200hp version of the 2.4L versus the 198hp version. I know, not a big deal but interesting.
  • dash5dash5 Posts: 418
    edited April 2010
    "They are easy to spot and it just doesn't pay to attempt an intelligent discussion with them. "

    Especially when they have names like carstryke, with a y, and give opinions by making analogies to wiping their [non-permissible content removed].

    Hyundai has been making steady progress for years. Even if you dont like them it's a good thing for everyone, since they just set the benchmark that much higher for everyone else.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Yep, that is old school for sure. You had to build up pressure from the exhaust before you got any boost, hence the huge lag. The new era engines that have the turbos as part of the design have low pressure turbos that provide boost at low RPM's and a second stage turbo to upper end boost. I am curious how they dual stage the turbo on an I4 when it only has one exhaust manifold.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited April 2010
    about the 2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport. Here are some very impressive random facts that I've learned about the new Suzuki Kizashi.

    image

    Check out all of the engineering that goes in to this new Suzuki. There is nothing else like the Kizashi in this category of car on the road today! Why might that be?

    Well, let's talk about it. For starters show me another car in the segment that has: aluminum pistons with low tensile force rings, forged connecting rods, forged crankshaft, a timing chain (not a belt), balance shafts, hydraulic valve lifters and coil-over ignition. There are none.

    Trust me, the above information means this car will be a great performer and is better engineered than anything in its category and price level. The prices are going to start around 19k, and go up to 25k for a totally loaded version complete with AWD! To get anything even close to this car you will have to spend at least 10k to 20K more than you will with Kizashi.

    Suzuki tends to put it's money where you can't see it, unlike other brands that sell a fancy interior on a crusty old driveframe. Multi-link fully independent suspension too, no piddly semi-trailing arms or torsion beams to be found on this car.

    Combine all those features with the AWD option and there's plenty to differentiate this car from Honda's, Toyota's, VW's and Subaru's, etc. Great job, Suzuki!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    It looks like the only thing that car has going for it is that it is AWD. It is smaller than a Fusion, has only a 4 cylinder engine, and either a MT6 or a CVT. Wait until you actually drive one before getting gung ho on it. I was that way about the Dodge Avenger, it looked and sounded good on the internet, then I saw one up close and walked away.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    I don't know about that other stuff,but my 2006.5(2007)KIA Optima with the 2.4 engine does have a timing chain.(Thank the Gods)
    But that Suzuki sure is a nice nice looking car.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    For me "smaller than a Fusion" is a positive. I do recognize that I am in a tiny minority.

    Back in 2007, when the Mazda6 had that feature, it was a point in it's favor for me in deciding between it and the Fusion/Milan.
  • avucarguyavucarguy Posts: 56
    edited April 2010
    I don't own or drive a Korean car. I own all Japanese cars right now. With that said however, the Korean cars are getting much better. The Sonata is one of the nicer looking family sedan out there. I would not compare the Sonata to an Acura TSX however. The interior of the TSX is nicer(though smaller). Hyundai deserve alot of credit for the current Sonata. I hope Toyota and Honda wakes up and put better materials into the Accord/Camry. Hyundai still have to get pass the stigma of the Hyundai name. Most asian people I know would not buy a Hyundai because of the name. Toyota and Honda is still the brand most asians buy, including myself.
  • shabadoo25shabadoo25 Posts: 216
    I test drove the TSX, and it's interior is comparable to the new Sonata. The TSX's instrument cluster is crowded and ugly.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    edited April 2010
    The TSX's instrument cluster is crowded and ugly.

    They look similar in design to me. What makes one ugly and one not? :confuse:

    (I'm having trouble getting my Img links to work, so check them out yourself here on Edmunds).
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    If you think the TSX instrument cluster is crowded then I hate to hear what you think about the Honda Accord's. The TSX had a lot less buttons then the Accord did.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I've never seen an instrument cluster with more than one or two; usually just for the trip computer. I think Honda just has the one little "stick" button.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    edited April 2010
    I saw the Kizashi at the NY Auto Show, and while it is probably the nicest sedan Suzuki has produced it is still not really in the class of a Malibu/Camry/Sonata/Accord. It was quite a bit smaller than the other midsize cars and looked much more like a really good competitor for the likes of a Civic or a Nissan Sentra. The interior and exterior were decent but it looks like a $20K car. From what I have heard the ride is very well tuned though, so perhaps that is what Suzuki focused on. From the review I have read on Insideline is sounds like a decent car but it is $27,500 for the AWD w/CVT and only 8.3 second 0-60, meaning it's not really going to be a car for driving enthusiasts. With it's smaller size and fun-to-drive handling I bet this car will sell great in Europe though.

    http://www.insideline.com/suzuki/kizashi/2010/2010-suzuki-kizashi-sls-full-test.- html
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    The AWD w/CVT starts at $21,899, not $27,500
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    a 2010 Suzuki Kizashi GTS with automatic CVT and it is a great car. It feels solid and there were no rattles and it smooths over bumps very well. I didn't find any "numbness" in the steering at top center. The car steers and handles very well and like my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS it begs you to push it harder into turns.

    I love that Jetta-like front end and I like the rear end styling as well. Right down to the faux dual exhausts. I can't seem to get this car out of my mind. But my wife and I are moving to NE Nevada (a gold mining town named Elko, though I am going to work in their hospital there in Elko) so for now I am going to just push the idea to the background while we move and get settled in. I have to wait for my Nevada RT license to come(it'll take 4-5 weeks) then we'll move up there.

    Nevada is wide, wide open. You've got Reno to the west and Vegas in the very south. Elko sits up to the NE and you have these Great Basin areas that are just huge stretches of land w/o any people or buildings. Cattle ranching is huge and in Elko mining is booming right now because of the spiking value of gold.

    Twould be a fun land to drive the new 2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport through. Last week we were driving back down to Arizona and we got caught in what was the worst snowstorm I've ever drove through. The '08 Lancer GTS handled it like a champ. It's Pirelli P-Zero Nero Mud and Snow Pinna all-season radials handled the snow very well. I had to get out and scrape the windshield wipers about 9 or 10 times. We slipped a bit but any vehicle would in that driving icy snow.

    Apparently Nevada gets a lot of snow. Going from the desert to the Great Basin mountain and valley region. Our host steve is in Boise, about 190 miles north of us there in Elko.

    But that's just it. I have driven a Kizashi and I want more. :shades:

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    it's not really going to be a car for driving enthusiasts

    Since most of the reviews I've read on the Kizashi indicate that it handles the twisties much better than just about any midsize car I don't know why you'd say that. Also Suzuki is marketing this as a midsize as it's only a bit smaller than other midsizes but much larger than Civics/Corollas.

    I'd be curious as to which of the midsize sedans you mentioned that would qualify as a car for "driving enthusiasts". Is 0-60 time the only qualifier? If so, please draw the line as to what thattime has to be.

    I think most of the midsize cars you mentioned also sell on the street for around 20k unless substantially loaded. People are buying 2010 Sonatas for 15k and new 2011s for 20k so I firmly believe they would be classified as 20k cars.

    I'm not even sure a real driving enthusiast would be looking at cars in this category. However, I've never seen an absolute definition of what a driving enthusiast is. Most people throw the term around pretty loosely. A front wheel drive 4 cyl auto midsize family sedan is not a sports car just because they tighten the suspension a little, throw on some big rims and add "Sport" or "SE" to it's name.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    At least from looking at the length, the Kizashi, at 183 inches, is actually closer to the 177-179 inches of cars like the Civic, Corolla, Focus than it is to the 194 inch long Accord or Mazda6. But I think that says more about the gargantuan ;) size of the Accord and Mazda6 than it does about the smallness of the Kizashi.

    Of course, I am sure we will soon be hearing about the Kizashi being "cramped", just as we did about the first generation Mazda6 and the Ford Contour. This and the reviews of the handling, would appear to mean that I am destined to own one someday, since I had a Contour prior to my 2007 Mazda6.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    edited April 2010
    TheInsideLine said the AWD w/CVT starts at $27.5K but that is not what it seems to say on Suzuki's website so I guess they have their info wrong. And it's a nice little car, for sure, but if you are going to buy a small little car to whip around turns it would be nice if they offered the upper models with a turbo or something.

    http://www.insideline.com/suzuki/kizashi/2010/2010-suzuki-kizashi-sls-full-test.- html
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    Yeah, it kind of falls inbetween dimension wise. It's wider than an Altima and same width as Camry but shorter than other midsizers. Weighs as much or more than most of them so it's kind of funny size. Like I said, Suzuki is marketing it as a midsize. It's kind of like the Jetta. A lot of people can't decide if it's compact or midsize because the dimensions fall all over the place.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    With the all wheel drive it almost seems as if the Kizashi was designed to compete against the old size Legacy but with the same CVT tranny that the new Legacy has. That is quite a niche and Suburu has got the reputation in that category which Kizashi will be compared against a lot.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,776
    ...who would NOT buy a Suzuki, regardless of the quality of the product, due to the name alone? I mean, they are at the bottom of the barrel as far as reputation (which means they are vulnerable to staying in the U.S. market); they have very little dealer network; the new vehicles have no track record.

    Just as I would not buy a GM today, I would not buy such an obscure brand. Something like Subaru or Mazda is ok even. But not Suzuki (cars).

    Let them establish a 5 year track record of at least being a bit mainstream and then we can talk.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    ...who would NOT buy a Suzuki, regardless of the quality of the product, due to the name alone? I mean, they are at the bottom of the barrel as far as reputation (which means they are vulnerable to staying in the U.S. market); they have very little dealer network; the new vehicles have no track record.

    Are you confusing Suzuki with Mitsusbishi?

    The Mitusbishi engine that was in both of my folks Chryslers when I was growing up were very poor, although the '89 Galant I had was great. "Crankwalk" issues on the Eclipse GSX to make me steer clear.

    Experiences with Suzuki, the Chevy Sprints and Suzuki Swifts that were popular in HS and college seemed fine, and the Swift GTI was great in autocross. The GS500e that I would occasionally bum rides on was an awesomely reliable, forgiving beater of a bike.

    I really can't think of anything on my do-not-buy list right now, though. Just some manufacturers make more products that interest me than others.
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