Midsize Sedans 2.0

iluvmysephia1

roadburner - that's right, and I really fall in to that category.... it's not the new car smell, either. It's the new "toy" thing, unfortunately, even with liking the lower end rigs as I do, that can be an expensive endeavour. Funny, the Mrs. totally gets that.

backy

akirby said:

Paying $4K to replace an engine in one year is still far cheaper than a $500/mo lease. And you're not going to pay that much every year. So don't fool yourself into thinking it's cheaper to lease or buy new. It almost never is. It can be a lot more fun and a lot more convenient though.

LOL! I'd never lease a car for $500/month or anywhere close to that. My last four leases have been $175/month (2010 Sentra), $47/month (with a trade, roughly $210/month w/o for 2013 Sonata), $170/month (2013 Rio5 LX AT PP), and $185/month (2016 Forte5 LX). All with nothing up front except I did make the first payment up front on the Sentra, but they also threw in a free nav system and portable DVD player. If I can't find a great lease deal, I buy used. The last car I bought new was a 2004 Elantra GT, paid $13.2k for a $17.4k car. One of my sisters still owns it. The most I've ever paid to buy ANY car, new or used, is $13.5k, which is what my wife's 2012 CX-7 cost last fall.

akirby

Point still remains that it is cheaper to keep a paid off vehicle and do repairs than it is to buy or lease a new vehicle. Claiming otherwise is just fooling yourself.

andres3

akirby said:

Point still remains that it is cheaper to keep a paid off vehicle and do repairs than it is to buy or lease a new vehicle. Claiming otherwise is just fooling yourself.

Unless you buy something that falls apart right after the warranty..............

Hi Chrysler!

akirby

Possible but rare that you'd have to spend more than $2K per year on repairs every year on a modern vehicle. Even a Chrysler......

Sandman6472

Stay the course right now seems to be the theme here. Kia's are pretty reliable and doubt you'll have any problems as long as you stay current on the oil changes/tire rotations and follow the maintenance schedule in the manual. Hell, our '08 Accent is still going strong at 26K even though I had to put new sneakers on it last May. Daughter will be driving more once she passes her boards and gets a full time job come the fall. And in her case, if she needs a new vehicle, it would fall on us to pay for it, something not gonna happen!
But in your case, keep what ya got at least for another year or two. Set your sights on a late 2017/early 2018 model.

The Sandman

stickguy

wait, this is the pharmacy student, right? they make lots of money. Why the heck would you buy a car for her?

backy

akirby said:

Point still remains that it is cheaper to keep a paid off vehicle and do repairs than it is to buy or lease a new vehicle. Claiming otherwise is just fooling yourself.

I didn't claim any such thing. I specifically said I don't buy new cars anymore--I either find a great lease deal or buy used. But you are also ignoring the advantages of getting a new car vs. keeping a car forever, for example: latest safety features, latest convenience features, maybe better FE (automakers have made great strides there in recent years), very little risk of a breakdown (which can be a problem if you depend on your car for business trips etc.), predictable costs (just make payments/insurance/gas and routine maintenance), and of course that new-car smell!

m6user

Agree with backy. Everyone knows it is dollar for dollar cheaper to buy a two or three yr old car and keep it for ten years while taking good care of it. But money is not most important thing all the time.

stickguy

People soend lots of money on fluff. Trips to Europe (cheaper to stay cation). Eating out vs. cooking at home. Expensive wine vs. box.

Even cars. Used or new, people should buy a base cheap O car. They cost less.

roadburner

I don't have a problem with people buying new- heck, it's their money. My point is that you can't make an economic case for buying a new car and flipping it every 3-5 years.

andres3

roadburner said:

I don't have a problem with people buying new- heck, it's their money. My point is that you can't make an economic case for buying a new car and flipping it every 3-5 years.

roadburner said:

I don't have a problem with people buying new- heck, it's their money. My point is that you can't make an economic case for buying a new car and flipping it every 3-5 years.

Unless it's a Ford GT or M1 Coupe?

brian125

Here's my economic case losing money flipping vehicles every 2 to 4 years and having a clear head about it is : Blaming my wife for letting me do it ......... Its her fault......... makes sense no?......

akirby

backy said:

akirby said:

Point still remains that it is cheaper to keep a paid off vehicle and do repairs than it is to buy or lease a new vehicle. Claiming otherwise is just fooling yourself.

I didn't claim any such thing. I specifically said I don't buy new cars anymore--I either find a great lease deal or buy used. But you are also ignoring the advantages of getting a new car vs. keeping a car forever, for example: latest safety features, latest convenience features, maybe better FE (automakers have made great strides there in recent years), very little risk of a breakdown (which can be a problem if you depend on your car for business trips etc.), predictable costs (just make payments/insurance/gas and routine maintenance), and of course that new-car smell!

That wasn't directed at you - it was a general statement. Sorry if it came out wrong. And none of those things you mentioned are cost related. There are dozens of reasons to buy or lease a new car that are perfectly valid. But if you get rid of a car that's paid for to buy a new one and tell yourself that you're doing it to save money you're lying to yourself. I've done it myself in the past. I don't do that any more - if I want something I just acknowledge that I'm spending more money and make an informed decision.

iluvmysephia1

Here's my economic case losing money flipping vehicles every 2 to 4 years and having a clear head about it is : Blaming my wife for letting me do it ......... Its her fault......... makes sense no?......


brian, you and I are gonna have ta drink Jim Beam and Cokes together some day! Do you like The Tragically Hip? Gordon Downie is a special sort of crazy.

brian125

Need help Is there a way to reset the "Quote" feature On bottom . It won't put message in New comment area.

brian125

iLuv- Next time I pass thru your neck of the woods your on. I'll bring the cigars and a back up bottle.

iluvmysephia1

iLuv- Next time I pass thru your neck of the woods your on. I'll bring the cigars and a back up bottle.

Good deal. I've never met someone from Edmunds in person. It would be a gas!

Michaell

iluvmysephia1 said:

iLuv- Next time I pass thru your neck of the woods your on. I'll bring the cigars and a back up bottle.

Good deal. I've never met someone from Edmunds in person. It would be a gas!

If you come to Denver next week to pull the trigger on that iA you could meet both @breld and myself.

iluvmysephia1

If you come to Denver next week to pull the trigger on that iA you could meet both @breld and myself.

I'd like that, Michaell. I'll let you know by Thursday on here if I'm heading over there or not. Should know by then if the whole thing will fly.

parachautopart

Accord is not that much big,

benjaminh

Alex on Autos gets from 0-60 in 6.6 seconds in the Civic Turbo. He keeps it in L to get that number, which seems like a cheat, but with the hardware and software of the CVT I guess it works. He talks about the acceleration at c. 8:50.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZk-j6hjOPE

stickguy

If the bring that out in a stick eventually, I could be interested!

roadburner

If I was ever going to go with a Civic it would be the Type R or nothing.

benjaminh

It looks to me like this Smoking Tire test driver is once-in-a-while going c. 100 mph on this winding mountain road in this Civic Turbo. I wouldn't ever want to go that fast on that type of road, but it's interesting to watch imho....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il-ViAeYiHM

brian125

I'd like to try that road test with my new X-5 over there. Haven't seen roads that good in the NYC area in years.

ab348

benjaminh said:

It looks to me like this Smoking Tire test driver is once-in-a-while going c. 100 mph on this winding mountain road in this Civic Turbo. I wouldn't ever want to go that fast on that type of road, but it's interesting to watch imho....

He better be careful or he could end up like this automotive journalist:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/03/got-fired-top-gear-without-punching-anyone/

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, the "Red Mist" got him...

benjaminh

ab348 said:

benjaminh said:

It looks to me like this Smoking Tire test driver is once-in-a-while going c. 100 mph on this winding mountain road in this Civic Turbo. I wouldn't ever want to go that fast on that type of road, but it's interesting to watch imho....

He better be careful or he could end up like this automotive journalist:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/03/got-fired-top-gear-without-punching-anyone/

Wow. That's an incredible story. A miracle that he survived with such minor injuries. Mostly that was just luck, but there also must have been some good safety engineering in that Ford.

andres3

benjaminh said:

It looks to me like this Smoking Tire test driver is once-in-a-while going c. 100 mph on this winding mountain road in this Civic Turbo. I wouldn't ever want to go that fast on that type of road, but it's interesting to watch imho....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il-ViAeYiHM

I didn't see anything approaching near 100 MPH in that video. You should see that guys drive of the Golf R. Now in that one, maybe got close.

[Deleted User]

Some of the next class of car down are now also "midsize"—at least according to the EPA measure. Sales for them for last month:

Corolla 29,342

Civic 27,707

Sentra 20,599

Focus 18,620

Cruze 12,998

Elantra 11,973

Jetta 9,375

Forte 8,187

Mazda3 7,275

Dart 6,771

Impreza 4,432

My gosh, how long can the Corolla keep it's sails (and sales) filled with reliability lore from the past. Next time you see one and are bored (like on the Metro, Bus, stuck in traffic, etc) look at it carefully. The only styling cue that is modern at ALL is the front clip, After that, it is straight up (Yawn) 4 door compact(ish) sedan. It has LED headlights. Woo Hoo. However, I can't deny the numbers.

The new Civic is BAD A**. What a leap for Honda. I don't know if it is a 17 or 16 but the new Civic looks like it has thrusters for taillights, Just wild for Honda. Heck just wild period. I kept waiting for boosters to kick in and those taillights to light superbright, and in a blink of an eye it's gone.

My BFF has a 2015 Si stick shift with the big rims (18's??) and let me run some errands in it while he took a nap.BTW he is making mad money moonlighting on UBER..I can't say it was as "on rails" as the 1999 Integra V-TECH (200 HP) but it came darn close. I think the difference is the electric power steering and the tires, which, NO ONE will notice after driving it for 3 days. It was the 6 speed, and it felt like 0-60 mph at about 6.7 seconds. His car only has 2100 miles on it so I didn't want to break it trying to get a number I can't even clock scientifically.

Now, how does everyone else except Mazda get the recipe' wrong when they have an almost perfect handling larger compact like the Civic to tear apart and learn from?

Things that make you go hmm....

I still love my PAID FOR 2012 Optima. Just wish my car was kept the same and shoehorned the 2.3 EcoTurbo from the Mustang in it along with the manual trans. However, my baby still looks good after 5 years outside.
Kind of like this:

[Deleted User]

brian125 said:

I'd like to try that road test with my new X-5 over there. Haven't seen roads that good in the NYC area in years.

parachautopart said:

Accord is not that much big,

And restyled Accord is a blinged up ugly American-inner city beater to-be. Fugly. The previous, unrestyled version was classy! God; (on my knees thinking of the fake chrome "bling strip" on the front bumper) what was Honda thinking? I think too many folks were pulled from the styling department to work on the Civic and the newer guys were left with a simple mid cycle restyle... with middle management thinking "how bad could they screw it up???" Just approve it and have another beer Joe.....Well, I bet "Joe" is approving advanced cupholder design now.

[Deleted User]

benjaminh said:

ab348 said:

benjaminh said:

It looks to me like this Smoking Tire test driver is once-in-a-while going c. 100 mph on this winding mountain road in this Civic Turbo. I wouldn't ever want to go that fast on that type of road, but it's interesting to watch imho....

He better be careful or he could end up like this automotive journalist:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/03/got-fired-top-gear-without-punching-anyone/

Wow. That's an incredible story. A miracle that he survived with such minor injuries. Mostly that was just luck, but there also must have been some good safety engineering in that Ford.

That was a great story. I think he is better for it. Learned his limits, was humbled, and will make him a better journalist.....and man, in the process. Thoroughly enjoyed it.

[Deleted User]

Oh, yes I have been thinking of a wheel ad tire upgrade, but lets face it...it is a waste of money, Tires cost more, and it adds weight. Still, wish it had those Mustang 5.0 rims on it....but then I thought of the restyled Accord.

...and with that said;

On my restyled Accord rant( I meant "inner city hoopty to-be"). Now that is the car more likely to end up with some "20"s" on it, and most likely to improve it's looks (especially since only 19's will fit on mine). (At any trim level).

Hey, if you are gonna style a hoopty-to-be, you might as well round it out with some 22's.

Mr_Shiftright

Urban Dictionary defines a hootie (or hoopty). Pretty funny:

"Any car that meets the following: a) driver must enter car through passenger side b) three different brand and size tires - 3 of them missing hubcap c) exhaust is held up by half a clothes hanger - other half replaces the antenna d) backfires every three blocks - loudest backfire being when car is turned off e) must open door at drive-threws as windows don't roll down f) you only get one AM station and the tape deck eats all tapes inserted g) can't open the glove box as the whole thing will fall out h) if you let go of steering wheel while driving you'll make a u-turn i) must manually move blinker lever up and down as it no longer blinks on it's own j) must keep one foot on brake and one on accelerator when at a complete stop k) has had the same temporary registration sticker in the window for the last 18 months l) has all the above issues but still has a $200 professional tint job

suydam

Perfect! From my own experience I'd add, if at least one door is tied shut and painted a different color!

thebean

cski said:

And restyled Accord is a blinged up ugly American-inner city beater to-be. Fugly. The previous, unrestyled version was classy! God; (on my knees thinking of the fake chrome "bling strip" on the front bumper) what was Honda thinking? I think too many folks were pulled from the styling department to work on the Civic and the newer guys were left with a simple mid cycle restyle... with middle management thinking "how bad could they screw it up???" Just approve it and have another beer Joe.....Well, I bet "Joe" is approving advanced cupholder design now.

Your opinion and you are entitled to it. My thoughts on Kia is - I didn't pull myself up from the depths of poverty to drive a Kia.  I seriously wouldn't drive a Kia if I got a free one.  Just my opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs

backy

The badge on the car doesn't matter to me. If it's a good car and meets my needs at a good price, I'll at least consider it. Fifteen years ago, there weren't any Kias I wanted to drive. But I think they've made huge strides since then, and now I wouldn't mind driving several of Kia's models. And I have a Forte5 now.

I noticed the other day that CR has a Kia as their top pick in mid-sized SUVs, two Kias on their list of best new cars under $25k, a Kia with the highest score (tie) for large cars, and Kia overall tied with Toyota , and ahead of Honda (!), Mercedes-Benz, VW, Ford, Acura, Chevy, Nissan, Infiniti, Cadillac and many others. No rating on the 2016 Optima yet as it's a new model.

So send that free Kia my way, I'd be glad to drive it!

wayne21

Last week I went car shopping with a friend of mine for a day. He was interested in a midsize sedan and we looked at sonata, optima, accord and camry (all day allowed for). I've owned a couple of Hondas and a couple Toyotas but never a Hyundai or kia. I currently own an acura. Before going with him I told him he couldn't go wrong with Honda or Toyota. After going with him and riding/driving each of those cars, I would rank those cars in this order: optima, sonata, accord and camry.

Michaell

wayne21 said:

Last week I went car shopping with a friend of mine for a day. He was interested in a midsize sedan and we looked at sonata, optima, accord and camry (all day allowed for). I've owned a couple of Hondas and a couple Toyotas but never a Hyundai or kia. I currently own an acura. Before going with him I told him he couldn't go wrong with Honda or Toyota. After going with him and riding/driving each of those cars, I would rank those cars in this order: optima, sonata, accord and camry.

Interesting take.

Care to share why you ranked them the way you did?

stickguy

I delivered my BIL and SIL to the airport this weekend (about a 45 minute ride). When she got in, made a comment about it being huge in the back seat of the same sonata. It really is like a baby limo, even sitting behind me.

wayne21

The optima and sonata were incredibly quiet and smooth and the cars had very good feels when driving. They were solid driving machines. The interior layout seemed to be well thought out and functional. They had some features that my "top of the line acura" doesn't have even as an option. The interiors were nicer than the accord or camry. The accord suffered from the classic Honda product wind noise (not sure if Honda doesn't know how to prevent this after years and years of wind noise or if people will buy their products anyway so they don't care). I thought some of their electronics left a lot to be desired and I didn't think much of the layout of their controls. I thought some of the materials in the accord were pretty cheap, too. The camry was pretty quiet, but there was little to no feel to the driving experience and it had the cheapest of all the interiors. In fact, I'd say the camry was an econobox when compared to the other vehicles. Just one opinion and I didn't have a nickel in it one way or the other.

Michaell

wayne21 said:

The optima and sonata were incredibly quiet and smooth and the cars had very good feels when driving. They were solid driving machines. The interior layout seemed to be well thought out and functional. They had some features that my "top of the line acura" doesn't have even as an option. The interiors were nicer than the accord or camry. The accord suffered from the classic Honda product wind noise (not sure if Honda doesn't know how to prevent this after years and years of wind noise or if people will buy their products anyway so they don't care). I thought some of their electronics left a lot to be desired and I didn't think much of the layout of their controls. I thought some of the materials in the accord were pretty cheap, too. The camry was pretty quiet, but there was little to no feel to the driving experience and it had the cheapest of all the interiors. In fact, I'd say the camry was an econobox when compared to the other vehicles. Just one opinion and I didn't have a nickel in it one way or the other.

Which, in my mind, makes yours an unbiased opinion, especially given your vehicle history.

It's possible all four of them will be on my list to evaluate later this year when my current lease is up.

Can you tell us what trim levels of each you looked at?

wayne21

I just rode and drove them and didn't pay a lot of attention to that because I didn't plan to buy one. They were all 4 cylinders and were pretty much loaded, but did not have leather.

Michaell

wayne21 said:

I just rode and drove them and didn't pay a lot of attention to that because I didn't plan to buy one. They were all 4 cylinders and were pretty much loaded, but did not have leather.

No worries - was just curious.

brian125

Wayne

Have your friend check out the Subaru Legacy very nice ride with rave reviews all around but underpowered motor. Probably wont matter much if a 4cyl is your friends choice.

The Mazda 6 does handle better than the 4 vehicles you mentioned but what I noticed when I test drove the Mazda 6 was to much road noise, worse than the Accord. Mazda6 ingress / egress is terrible for anybody close to 6'. its smaller contoured cock pit and awful front seating gets 2 thumps down.

For the average Joe the 2016 Sonata is a great family hauler with above tech and safety features. For a sharper sportier look the Optima is right there.

akirby

Would be interested to hear how the Fusion stacks up against those.

sda

I had the opportunity to drive a new 16 Fusion SE 2.0 recently. I really liked how it drove, good ride and handling, quiet, comfortable handsome interior and good zip from the 2.0 ecoboost. Only thing I didn't really care for is the reduced visibility looking out of the car. The windshield pillar is fairly large, and it is a little hard to see out the back, but nothing like the HHR that I had some years ago.

brian125

sda

Thought's on 2013 Accord........... VS........... 2016 Fusion . Ride , Handling, Size, Refinement, features, visibility, layout ?

Your EX Accord is a 4cyl. Thoughts comparing to Fords 2.0

zandor

Ford's 2.0L EcoBoost is a turbo engine, and it's quite a bit more powerful than the naturally aspirated 4-cyl in the Accord. 2.0L EcoBoost v. Accord V6 would be a more appropriate comparison.