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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 418
    The MSRP of the new turbo Sonata Limited which would be similar equipped to a mid range G37 will only be about 6-7k difference. IMO that's about how far apart they are and I wouldn't fault anyone for buying either one because I think they are both fairly good values.

    Yeah I'd say that's about right give or take. When you load up the mid sizers they come quite close to the entry level lux vehicles. That includes the new Sonata as well as the Accords and Altimas and others. Add in all the bells and whistles plus V6/Turbo and you're in an overlapping segment of buyers. It's always about trade offs.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    Um, I think the excitement level is little high too but to be fair he is not the one that brought up the comparison.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Well, my reply wasn't meant to be just to him, and it certainly wasn't personal.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    and be a jerk in the process

    Gee, I may not agree with the tone of his posts but as I go back through them I see no name calling.....just questioning other's statements and asking for facts. He wasn't the person that even brought up the G37 comparison in the first place. As far as calling names, I didn't know the hosts were into it.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    edited April 2010
    I have tried to check my facts as much as possible, and I have seen lots of incorrect facts being written to counter my posts as well (like that a G37 is only $30K and RWD cars are just as good in the snow).

    The only thing I said is that a Turbo Sonata SE could race a G37, and if it was one of the upper-trim Infiniti's it probably would be. The Sonata Turbo is not even out yet, so the only "fact" that we have to go off of is the projected 0-60 time provided by Hyundai, 5.5 seconds. According to Insideline.com the G37 Journey Coupe ($37,500 as tested) did 0-60 in 5.5 seconds and had 0.86 on the slalom - that is pretty comparable to 5.5 seconds (est) for the Sonata Turbo SE and 0.84 on the slalom. The ONLY thing I said comparing the two was "(The Sonata Turbo) could race a G37!!" ... and depending on which trim the G37 is that is a true statement, especially with the heavier models like the Journey or Anniversary Edition. They could race and it would at least be a competition - I am not saying the Sonata would necessarily win. That is still a pretty good feat considering the price tag of the two vehicles.

    I am NOT saying that the Sonata is a better performing/better riding/higher quality sedan, I used the G37 as an example because it is one of the top entry-lux sport sedans. The comparison was used to illustrate the fact that the Turbo Sonata should be closer than almost any other sedan in the segment to achieving the type of performance seen in much more expensive sedans. There is no need to jump down my throat and misconstrued things I have said to act as if I am claiming the Sonata or any $25K mid-sizer is a better vehicle than just about any sedan that is $35K+.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    edited April 2010
    (like that a G37 is only $30K and RWD cars are just as good in the snow).

    Look, I pretty much agree with what everything you have said. I think the problem lies with is something a "statement of fact" or is it someone's opinion or best guess. It's kind of like when you said the Sonata turbo would hit 0-60 in 5.5. You didn't say it was the CEO of Hyundai estimate or your best guess, you just stated it. You also just stated that the G37 is 40k and twice as much as a Sonata. You also said nobody north of the Mason-Dixon line could drive a rear wheel car in the snow. If you would temper your statements with "some" or "many" it would be factual. But exaggerating or inflating makes your statements questionable. I get what you mean but I wish you would say it that way.

    Like the above bolded statement. Nobody said the things you are supposedly quoting. Someone mentioned that they could get a base G37 for about $30800 or so. If you read through the G37 prices paid thread there are several deals like that for brand new G37s because of end of year clearance and dealer cash. So that was pretty factual. Plus, nobody stated that rear wheel drive cars are just as good as front wheel drive cars in the snow. The statement was that a rear wheel drive car with all the traction control systems offered today with dedicated SNOW tires can be just as good or better than some front wheel driven cars. That's pretty well documented by a lot of professional reviews. In fact, many(see, I qualified it) articles state that a car(either rear or front driven) can actually outperform a 4 wheel drive system if the snow tires are used versus all season.

    I know it takes a couple of extra keystrokes to qualify statements that you don't know to be an absolute fact but if you do it you don't end up with so many people questioning the accuracy of your posts. A lot of what we talk about in here are our opinions and our best guesses. I enjoy the back and forth and wish people wouldn't get so excited that they can't express themselves in a civil tone and I am not aiming that comment at you or anyone in particular.
  • mpobletempoblete Posts: 10
    Well said, I'm just tired of people digging into facts about this or that, the guy likes the G37 so he should go to that forum, or maybe to the Mercedes E-Class forum and see how they will say the G37 is a piece of junk is compared to the E-Class.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,918
    edited April 2010
    perhaps I'm a little defensive toward our long-time members, and toward the contributions to this helpful, long-running discussion. I think most people who contribute to this discussion are very knowledgeable and helpful, and I have a lack of appreciation for "newbies" who jump in and immediately begin deriding the "lack of facts" or the information, in general, provided in this topic.

    I probably could've been nicer, or more restrained, and for that I apologize. However, keep in mind there are nicer ways to correct whatever one feels is misinformation than to deride the entire discussion.

    Let's DO stick to the sedans mentioned in the discussion header, or at least those in the same class.

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  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I don't believe the 5.5 sec 0 to 60. When every magazine and CR is reporting that number on a consistent basis without the worry of a one shot launch trashing the tranny, I'll believe it.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    Agreed and I, for one, do appreciate that you are looking to keep the discussion cordial and interesting......and on topic. Although most of us have slipped up in that area from time to time but hopefully without alienating anyone.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    edited April 2010
    I don't think we can compare prices paid for any car, because Hyundai has been giving some pretty nice discounts as well. We don't know what people will pay for the 2011 Sonata SE Turbo but since discounts have been $2K-3K off MSRP on the 2.4L engine it's possible that a turbo SE could be had for around $22K, but it's hard to speculate on that since they are not out yet. The only fair comparison of price is the MSRP unless there is some abnormally large discounts being offered.

    And yes, buying a set of dedicated snow tires for a RWD car might might it manageable in the snow, but there are a lot of modifications that will improve any car. I plan to get really good performance tires when the time comes and I have a cold air intake and am putting a strut bar on my Sonata, but that doesn't mean that all Sonata's will perform the same. We can't have a fair discussion of "X vehicle with this and that aftermarket improvement will perform better than the way the vehicle is manufactured".

    The general rule is that it goes AWD>FWD>RWD in terms of performance in the snow. If the AWD vehicle put snow tires on, it would of course have better traction than either a front-drive Sonata or rear-drive G37. The line about "everyone above the Mason-Dixon line" was a tongue-and-cheek statement which was not meant to be taken literally, but I can tell you certainly don't see many RWD as anyone's daily-use car here in NY for that very reason.

    As far as the starting MSRP of $34,000, I have never considered a rear-drive Infiniti for the reasons above, so the AWD models I have seen all start in the high 30's/low 40's (although apparently they are not making AWD anymore? I couldn't find the info on the AWD models.) The MSRP range on cars.com is $34K-$53K .. so while yes, you could get the base sedan with no options, I think $40K is probably the average of what the G37 goes for or close to it. I stand corrected that there are some that are not quite that expensive, and are a decent value in terms of performance vs. cost if you don't mind losing some amenities in their base model. Personally I love both of these cars and did not mean to start a direct comparison between the same two - they are not even in the same class and I think we all acknowledge that.

    Now lets go back to talking about how we hate Toyota or something, come on guys. ;)
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    apparently they are not making AWD anymore?

    They make tons of them and that is what is mostly sold around Chicago to add to your point about the snow. It's just called the G37x and there is tons of info out there and they go from about 35k-39k street price......the higher being with nav.

    Anyway, I won't go back to hating Toyota because #1. I have a Tundra and rather like it and #2. I don't think the Camry is a bad car, jist kind of long in the tooth, not quite what I would like to drive and they have let their quality slip some but not to the extent the news media has insinuated IMO. My daughter has a Camry and loves it. She hasn't had any major problems to date and she's an on-road sales rep so she logs a lot of miles, it's a 2007. She's only lost control of it a few times but she says that keeps life interesting. ;) ;)
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    edited April 2010
    She's only lost control of it a few times but she says that keeps life interesting.

    That's a joke, right?

    Edit:
    I just saw this double post. Don't know why it happened. I apologize.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    She's only lost control of it a few times but she says that keeps life interesting.

    That's a joke, right?
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,048
    Yes, a joke. I have limited ability at humor.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited April 2010
    would you rather have this:

    image
    2011 Hyundai Sonata

    Or this:

    image
    2011 Suzuki Kizashi

    Come on, I want an enencumbered response by Metallica's pseudo-rock or Dennis Rodman's tats. I want a response of intelligence. Think.

    This car looks so hot and sexy I'd consider a purchase of a white Suzuki Kizashi Sport. And white is usually not an option for a car that's fortunate enough ta be picked by me.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited April 2010
    looks both hot and sexy slinking around a corner street.

    image

    Remember, this midsize racecar comes with a 6-speed manual tranny. Umm!

    YUMMY! Picture Jim Carrey when the defrocked Dolphin placekicker's Mom offers Ace Ventura her delicious cookies baked in to the shape of a football.

    image

    YUMMY!

    image

    Everything in the 2010 Suzuki Kizashi's interior is intuitive and functional. Attractive inside. For me the interior is very close to perfect.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited April 2010
    yumm-yummm-yummy!

    image

    This is just like the one I entered in to negotiations for at Courtesy Imports of Henderson, NV. Only the Vivid Red Kizashi was a 2010 Kizashi GTS and this one is the new Sport model. They wouldn't match all of my stipulations, can't say as I blame them. So I'm still Kizashi-less.

    The 2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport comes out in August of 2010 as a 2011 model. Nice looking hindquarters, huh? And those new wheels designed for the Sport are working just fine for me, too. Not unlike the OKC Thunder's near toppling of the LAL's in LA last night. Great job by the young and very talented Thunder.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited April 2010
    image
    2010 Suzuki Kizashi style.

    image

    6-speed manual transmission Suzuki Kizashi GTS in beautiful Platinum Silver Metallic.

    Kind of a beefier more in your face Jetta. Just a delicious slice a Kizashi there, gentlemen.

    image

    Get yer motor runnin', head out on the highway!

    image

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited April 2010
    that's what I'm talkin' about.

    But where the Kizashi’s ‘sport’ designation really comes into play is in the twisties. Thanks to a sports tuned suspension and a super-stiff chassis – as well as a curb weight of just over 3,200 pounds – the Kizashi is easily the most athletic car in its class, and even a few rungs up. How do we know? We tested the Kizashi on Virginia International Raceway against competitors like the Mazda Mazda6, Nissan Altima, and Subaru Legacy, and even some cars a few classes up like the Volkswagen Passat CC, Acura TSX and Audi A4.

    Suzuki engineers worked closely with KYB to design a suspension setup uniquely tailored to the Kizashi and they simply nailed it. Driving the Kizashi back-to-back with the TSX through a 60mph emergency lane change made the Acura feel totally out of shape. And that’s saying a lot considering how well the TSX drives.

    Out on the open track, the Kizashi continued to shine. Not surprising considering the Kizashi spent most of its early life on Germany’s famed Nurburgring. That track time really comes through as the Kizashi is a blast to throw around in the corners. Turn in is great and the Kizashi is an extremely well-balanced front-drive car, exhibiting virtually zero understeer and hardly any body roll. The Kizashi’s brakes are equally impressive and are a result of a tie-up with Akebono – the company responsible for making the brakes for Japan’s bullet trains.


    http://www.leftlanenews.com/suzuki-kizashi-first-drive-review.html

    Yeeeee-haaaaaaaawwww!

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    The only real problem that I see with the car is.. front wheel drive like virtually every last car out of Japan. The ad on their site is comparing themselves shamelessly to Mercedes and BMW, and calling it a luxury sport sedan.

    Um.. no. Nice midsize sedan, but not close to the major players. Now, the real killer deal out there in that segment is the new Genesis sedan. The coupe is a steal, and if you can live with 2 less doors, just get it instead over the Suzuki.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    I think almost everyone chose #1, why do you keep posting comparison pictures of the Sukuzi Kizashi? It has it's strong points, but having a better looking exterior than the new Sonata is definitely not one of them.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    edited April 2010
    The real problem with the car is that they have made a "sports sedan" with 180 HP.. that is not a sports sedan. Anyone shopping in that segment could just save themselves some money and get a Mitsubishi Lancer or something, they are close to the same size anyways.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I was trying to be kind, but, yeah, it really reminds me of the type of worthless(other word comes to mind) marketing that Kia used to do back when they first started.
  • shabadoo25shabadoo25 Posts: 216
    That might be the most boring looking, round econobox I've ever seen. The red interior highlights are gross.

    They should stick to motorcycles.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Thinking straight, or just thinking at all, I'd take the Sonata. Subjectively, it offers better styling and a stronger brand image. Objectively it offers more room, better power, better MPG, and a much wider dealer network.

    For me the choice would be pretty clear, as the above-average looking Hyundai appears the better buy over the completely average-looking Kizashi.
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    edited April 2010
    Come on, I want an enencumbered response by Metallica's pseudo-rock or Dennis Rodman's tats. I want a response of intelligence. Think.

    Actually, it appears that you want everyone to agree with you--thus you continue to badger the rest of the forum with the same question and the same pictures, over and over and over again. You won't rest until you have been proven right, about something that has no right answer. That's the only response you'll consider intelligence.

    Jeez, give it a rest, will you?
  • midas69midas69 Posts: 118
    I agree, that interior is FUGLY.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Well, I liked the looks of the Kizashi better, but now I am starting to question my judgement.

    First of all, I already had to question the opinion of anyone who "luved" the Kia Sephia. While I did like the looks of that car, as soon as I actually got in one and drove it, I realized it was terrible.

    Now, I find I am agreeing with someone who posts things like "I want an enencumbered response by Metallica's pseudo-rock or Dennis Rodman's tats". :sick:
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,253
    First, many thanks for keeping the pics right-sized for the forum. I didn't have to use Adblock to block too-wide images. Of course, Edmunds could make the image width problem go away if they would simply move their menus from the right to the left, but until their web developers better understand UI design we're stuck with what we have.

    Second, as a satisfied Hyundai owner (wife has an '01 Elantra) I have a bias towards Hyundai products.

    That said, I agree with thegraduate's comments. The Sonata has better power & better fuel economy in a larger package. That larger package should mean better passenger/cargo flexibility when needed.

    Performance-wise, I shrug. They're both adequate. The Kizashi may be more fun in the twisties but in my daily driving life I would have few opportunities to put that to the test. Marketing statements aside, at least until the turbo Sonata debuts neither would seriously be considered a sports sedan by the public. Sporty, perhaps, but not sports.

    Regarding the brands, Suzuki's reputation has not been seen as improving that I'm aware of, whereas Hyundai's generally has been getting better every year for the past decade. Hyundai has been growing; Suzuki shrinking.

    I have few concerns about buying from a smaller brand (I bought an Outlander a few months ago) as long as I think the brand is here for the long haul. Frankly, I'm not about Suzuki's ability to survive. Five years from now they may be the next Isuzu.
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