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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Prizm is a good quality / reliable cars, as it is a Corolla. :shades:
    Sure, the little guy has its shortcomings, but it has great gas mileage and is easy to wheel around town. They stay new looking for years. I owned a Corolla, and it was so easy on pocketbook. The car bobbles on windy days on the freeway, and is a bit awkward on the ergonomics, but it is friendly in other ways.
    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    So true indeed!

    Cars are so different from one to another, yet most offer at the very least one or two good qualities. I enjoyed the stick shift little Miata I once owned, as much as I enjoy my Accord V6 I have now. They share good cornering abilities, yet differ in comfort, and driving an automatic is not the same as the stick, but rewarding in other ways. The 1977 Cadillac DeVille is the total flip side of the BMW driving experience, yet it was a great freeway cruiser and made one heck of a fine limo, chrome and all!

    I guess one could argue however, some cars may not be seen as having any quality which stands out. No personality; if I dare say a car is a person. Perhaps a Malibu is just a square little car, which drive one from point a to b without doing anything which stands out as being notable. In other words, it works, but has nothing noteworthy to hang on for a so called "soul." Alas, some may find something soulful with that car too. Who knows, its all good. The best car is the one you drive while maintaining a smile. I take it some people get excited about the FWD Impalas. To each his or her own!
    Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    So true indeed!

    Cars are so different from one to another, yet most offer at the very least one or two good qualities. I enjoyed the stick shift little Miata I once owned, as much as I enjoy my Accord V6 I have now. They share good cornering abilities, yet differ in comfort, and driving an automatic is not the same as the stick, but rewarding in other ways. The 1977 Cadillac DeVille is the total flip side of the BMW driving experience, yet it was a great freeway cruiser and made one heck of a fine limo, chrome and all!

    I guess one could argue however, some cars may not be seen as having any quality which stands out. No personality; if I dare say a car is a person. Perhaps a Malibu is just a square little car, which drive one from point a to b without doing anything which stands out as being notable. In other words, it works, but has nothing noteworthy to hang on for a so called "soul." Alas, some may find something soulful with that car too. Who knows, its all good. The best car is the one you drive while maintaining a smile. I take it some people get excited about the FWD Impalas. To each his or her own!
    Loren
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    The Ford Fusion was rated the most reliable mid-size for 2006.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    By who? prosource1

    Reliability is important, but there are other qualities to consider (ride, quality, ergonomics, and power, just to name a few). My truck is reliable (for the most part), but I still don't like driving it that much.
  • What the best car choice is for any individual varies depending upon what that person finds important.

    For instance, I've always liked how a Honda Accord drives but have never included an Accord in my final list when sedan shopping? Why? The back seat room just doesn't compare well against competitors. This back seat deficit spans several generations of Accords. The Accord is the perfect car for lots of people. It's just not the right choice for me.

    I think the lack of back seat room was also the biggest problem for Ford's Contour. It didn't have Honda's reputation for reliability or quality to make-up for the lack of rear seat legroom.

    There are a lot of other preferences or priorities that can influence an individual's choice. The local dealer matters. Toyota manufacturing may be great, but if the local Toyota dealer is terrible (like mine), a great Toyota is a bad choice. No car is good enough to make up for a bad dealer experience.

    I wish people would be more nuanced in their critiques. Resale value and reliability are not the only priorities that people balance when spending money. Repeating ad nauseum well-known strengths and never exploring other vices or virtues is a disservice to people looking for reasons to differentiate between the spectrum of choices available in the marketplace.

    Further, the statistical variations in "quality" or "reliability" are often far smaller than the perceptions. A market that failures to acknowledge real improvements sends very inconsistent messages to manufacturers.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'll agree, the "compact" Accords of 1997 and previous (I have a 1996, and the back seat is about like today's Civic) had a small back seat. Have you tried a recent Accord? I think you'll find it very competitive to other cars in its class (Altima, Camry, 6).

    I have a 2006 as well as a 1996 Accord, so I can compare both. I'll agree that back seat room isn't plentiful in the older models, but in 1998 it gained 3 inches of rear legroom, and more with the 2003 redesign. In 1997 and before, it was a "compact" car, but it moved up into "midsize" in 1998.

    Just something you may consider if you haven't looked at Accord lately, look again.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Me too, my 2000 Accord wasn't that great, it had it issues... ;)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Visit this site. Camry owners around the net are starting to question the V6 auto MPG posted by Toyota.. And here is a site that did some research..
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectEngine.jsp?year=2007&make=Toyota&- model=Camry
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Some of you that have been around have seen reliability data posted in the last sedan comparison room. Shall we go back and start posting it again?
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The back seat room just doesn't compare well against competitors.

    What competitors? Please explain.

    No car is good enough to make up for a bad dealer experience.

    Dealer experience means little to me, because I don't go there (only to buy maintenance parts).

    I wish people would be more nuanced in their critiques.

    So what nuances would you like to comment on? Maybe you should take your own advise here.

    Further, the statistical variations in "quality" or "reliability" are often far smaller than the perceptions.

    Read what you wrote here. I don't think you meant what you said. :confuse:
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    Almost every other vehicle I've had has been able to get me to school or work or both and back, and been an entertaining autocross or HPDE companion.

    No midsize car is designed for that. Not even a 6.


    actually the 6 has done quite well in the World Challenge Touring Car Championship over the last few years. granted it's a souped up version with many aftermarket parts, but it does show how good of chassis the 6 has. And keep in mind, the 6 is the only midsize sedan in this group that has been chosen as Consumer's Digest Most Sporty Cars of 2007. I know several people who autocross their 6 who do quite well in their class. But even if they rank poorly, the 6 is fun to drive, and on top of that an autocross course will always make you a better driver since you will better understand the limits of your car.

    Perhaps this why the 6, despite it's being one of the oldest designs in this segment, continues to be rated highly by writers who find driving enjoyable/ fun and more than just a way to get from A to B. As Edmunds wrote in their summary of why they chose the Mazda 6 as the Editor's most desired sedan under $25k for 2007, "...the 6 offers comfort, capability and class for a surprisingly affordable price. Fun to drive, with smooth power delivery from the automatic, the 6 features a slick-shifting manual transmission if you so choose. Design is simple and tasteful inside and out."

    If you are a person who likes to occasionally take turns faster than most others or like to find gaps in traffic to get ahead of it, you will enjoy the Mazda 6's great handling characteristics.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Scape2, I know you like your Fusion, and I am happy for you. Give the Camry a rest, please. You don't have to buy one, if you don't want to.

    zzzzoom6, the Mazda 6 sounds like your kind of car. I am 44 years old, and don't drive my car like it's a toy. "Fun" is not what I'm looking for. Just an enjoyable drive. I'm kind of the middle ground here (too old for the 6, and too young for a Buick). The Accord is perfectly in the middle, just how I like it.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    No, I posted some earlier, thanks.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Wait a minute. This is supposed to be a comparison room right? Someone posted MPG figures for the V6 Camry, touting that if the V6 offers great MPG than why not have all this HP right? I am questioning the MPG figures touted by Toyota, so are others around the net. This site just proves why people are questioning the High MPG numbers that the manufacturer says the car is supposed to get. Why give it a rest? It it because its a Camry it should not be questioned? :confuse:
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    Actually, I think I'd be quite happy with the Accord (much happier, I think, with the next gen accord). In fact it was second or third on my list of cars I would have bought. But it was the the flexibility of a hatchback the sealed the deal on the 6. I've had 2 Accords in the past and liked them a lot, especially the coupe where I learned how handy a hatchback can be while still looking good. I especially like Honda's center console and manual tranny - my favorites in this class. Really, I could make a very strong case for the Accord. But when it came down to signing the dotted line, I had a stronger case for the Mazda based on my wants and needs.

    btw - from a suspension/ ride viewpoint, I don't think the Accord is in the middle of this group. I'd rate it in the top 3 for firmest suspension in this group (granted none of these cars have a really "firm" suspension...they're family cars after all; but some are firmer than others).
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    For fun, go to MSN reliability data and compare a 2003 Focus to a 2003 Civic. What a surprise! But if you asked anyone, they would say the Focus is unrelaible and the Civic is reliable.. Why? Check other makes/models as well, what a surprise.. :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Why give it a rest? It it because its a Camry it should not be questioned?

    No, but it would be a bit different if we hadn't all gone down this road before in the last room, that got shut down for its redundant arguing.

    Why do you constantly imply that the Camry and Accord are on some pillar of greatness, while you tout yourself as a martyr buying a "lowly Ford Fusion?"

    I've already said it once today, but I'll say it again... All Honda and Toyota owners do not think that Ford owners bought a sub-par vehicle, just one that didn't meet their needs as well, which, last I checked, is what you did. You wanted a fun car, with a V6, great styling, and a very reasonable price. The Fusion certainly delivers on that. I wanted a fun car, with great economy, and the best interior for my budget. For me, the Accord delivers.

    Do I cry "look at me, i took a chance on poor old Honda" though? Nah, I'm too busy driving! I also don't sarcastically berate other car manufacturers, like you constantly do to Honda, and especially Toyota. Please give it a rest before this forum gets out of control AGAIN and gets shut down AGAIN.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Or go to Consumer Reports and compare a CURRENT Pilot to a CURRENT Explorer. You'll find the Explorer couldn't be recommended because of poor reliability, while the Pilot is recommended.

    This means nothing in this board however, just like you bringing up a 5 year old economy car that isn't even made anymore. I ask, why?

    The Fusion and Accord are both highly rated, which are the only Fords and Hondas that should be in this discussion.
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