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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    They are all sewing machines relative to the Ford/Mazda exhaust note. I agree with ya baggs.

    It doesn't make one worse than the other, just different.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I find the exhaust on the 08 4 cylinder Accords is a good bit louder than it was on the 07 Accords. When an 07 Accord passes my house, I hear the engine. When an 08 passes I hear the exhaust. The 07 & 08 V6 exhausts both seem to be pretty quiet, so I haven't noticed a difference there.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I don't think those figures are right, at least for the Corolla and Camry they certainly aren't.

    According to the press release from Toyota:

    Camry: 41,572
    Corolla: 42,180

    Source: Toyota Reports June, Second-Quarter And First-Half Sales
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I wonder if these figures you quote here are including Solara and Matrix sales? :confuse:

    I dunno. :D
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    Why wouldn't they? The Matrix is just a station wagon Corolla and the Solara is just a two door Camry.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Wow - Ford has stated that fuel economy for the upcoming 2010 Fusion/Milan (on sale in January) with the new 2.5L 4 cylinder engine will top Accord and Camry and the hybrid will beat the Camry hybrid.

    I don't think they'd be saying that if they weren't 100% sure. If so that would be a huge step up for Ford. There are tons of other changes in that press release, too - I've never seen any car company make that many changes that quickly in response to a change in the market. You gotta give Mulally credit - he's not waiting around or making small incremental changes.
  • lightfootfllightfootfl Posts: 442
    re 10259
    I would like to think that Ford could do something right, but experience shows otherwise. I don't think Ford could ever get real mileages that would even closely compare, much less be better than some others. Also, they would have to improve their warranty by a long shot to be competitive, they don't honor their present warranties as it is. Sorry, but I won't believe it, til they prove it. Just my opinion.
    Been burned by them twice. They just don't honor their customers at all.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Why wouldn't they? The Matrix is just a station wagon Corolla and the Solara is just a two door Camry.


    If Honda combined both Accord coupe and sedan sales then I don't see what's wrong for Toyota to combine the Camry and Solara sales.

    Also, let's not forget that the Civic sales includes the coupe version as well and Corolla doesn't have one. So including the Matrix sales really doesn't hurt the merit of comparing Civic and Corolla sales numbers.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,622
    I was actually pleased with the FE on the current I4 Milan, when I drove it as a rental a while back. On a road trip from suburban Chicago into central WI and back, I was getting mid-to-upper-30s mpg cruising at 65-70 and averaged about 32 mpg for the trip, which included quite a bit of congestion around Chicago and some in-town driving. And it looks like the 2010 Fulan will do even better. So, not too shabby at all for a mid-sized sedan.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Their warranty matches everyone in the class except Sonata. Every mfr denies warranty claims that the owner believes should be covered. I will admit that Ford has some bad dealers out there that aren't as helpful as they should be but I don't think they are any worse than any other mfr regarding warranty coverage.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Except Camry and Accord are no longer the benchmark in terms of F/E.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,622
    And Galant. And Optima. :)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Correct - I was only referring to the mainstream entries.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Jeez, when I stated an Accord got 38mpg average on a long road trip, I'm not quite sure it was believed. Which to me is why Accord rules.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 790
    It's quite possible that the 2010 Fusion/Milan with the new 2.5L 4-cylinder will match or even slightly beat the Accord and Camry 4-cylinder automatic models.

    Accord and Camry models with the 4-cylinder/5-speed automatic powertrain have EPA mileage ratings of 21mpg city and 31mpg highway.

    The 2.5L in '09 Mazda6 has EPA fuel economy ratings of 21 city (same as Camcord) and 30 highway (only one mpg behind Camcord).

    The current Fusion 4-cylinder models weight about 200 pounds less than the new Mazda6, so that could have an impact. The Mazda's automatic transmission is most likely geared to strike a certain balance of performance and economy...with an emphasis on performance in keeping with Mazda's "Zoom-Zoom" image. If that's the case, Ford could gear it toward better fuel economy. Even better, they could follow Chevrolet's lead with the Malibu LTZ and match a 4-cylinder with a 6-speed automatic transmission to achieve significantly higher fuel economy!

    I'm anxious to see how it turns out when the 2010 models hit the road early next year. If the 2.5L Fusion has EPA ratings that do exceed the Accord and Camry- WHERE DO I PICK UP MY ORDER FORM??? =)
  • moocow1moocow1 Posts: 230
    Of course plans don't mean reality. I expect at least a few of these plans to be delayed, too much on the plate at once. However if they pull off having high fuel economy cars with good engines, 6 speed autos, good european driving dynamics. I gotta say I will be MAJORLY impressed. Long long ago, I once considered a focus. This could finally push me to at least look again at something.

    Of course regarding the mid-size cars, the range of fuel economy is damn small. Generally we're looking at 20-22 city and 30-32 highway, if ford gets 23/33, I'm not gonna be particularly impressed with a 1mpg advantage over sonata(The best fuel economy right now for non-hybrid! woohoo!) If they pull off like 25/35, that would be a major midsize advantage over any other.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    These aren't "plans" - the cars hit the factory floor in just over 4 months. And all Fulans get 6 speed transmissions - manual, automatic, I4, V6. That's one advantage they'll have over the others.

    Ford never had direction to achieve best in class fuel economy - it was never as important as emissions and other priorities. Obviously that's changed. Here is a quote from Ford product chief Kuzack:

    It's all part of a mandate by Ford product chief Derrick Kuzak: When the company significantly changes a vehicle and updates its powertrain, fuel economy must be best in class.

    "When we have new powertrains in a new vehicle, why would we have an expectation of anything less than being equal to or better than anything the competition is offering?"
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    In my head, a nameplate's sales are a nameplate's sales (Corolla, Matrix, Accord). That Toyota calls them different things is their choice. Obviously not everyone thinks like I do. :)

    I didn't intend to imply that it was wrong.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    22/33 for the 2009 Malibu is on its way (See It Here) I'm not sure what changed from the 2008 to the 2009 model to get the extra 1 MPG. The 6-speed 2.4L put the 2008 Malibu at 22/32. Where'd the extra mileage come from for 2009?
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