Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Midsize Sedans 2.0

1504505507509510544

Comments

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited July 2017
    In terms of features, both the 2018 Camry and the 2018 Accord are going to be impressively equipped for "base" models. The 2018 Camry LE lists for $24,900 with destination, and includes a lot of standard stuff....

    https://www.toyota.com/camry/camry-features/

    For instance, the 2018 Camry LE has "Safety Sense" as standard, which includes pre-collision pedestrian detection, lane departure alert with steering assist, automatic high beams, and Dynamic radar cruise control. Most of that stuff I personally feel mixed about, but the last feature is something that I'd like—and it was only available on high-priced Lexus models just a few years ago.

    The 2018 Camry LE also has 17" tires with alloy wheels standard, Toyota's Entune 3.0 with navi w/7" display, 8-way power driver's seat, 60/40 split folding rear seat, "wood" interior trim, 4 window auto up/down, led illuminated glove box, etc.

    That's pretty impressive for the entry-level model. Although in fact, strangely, in about 5 months, for $500 less, you'll be able to get the even more base L model, which eliminates the power seat and other stuff to save weight and costs, ultimately boosting mpg a little. I think very few people are going to get the L...

    In terms of equipment on the 2018 Accord LX, we don't have quite the same level of detail, and we don't know the pricing yet, but I very much doubt it'll be more than $400 more than the Camry LE. But there is a lot of info at Honda's site:

    http://hondanews.com/releases/dramatic-design-of-reimagined-2018-honda-accord-signals-new-direction-for-america-s-retail-best-selling-midsize-sedan

    Every 2018 Accord is going to have HondaSensing, which is mostly similar to Toyota's "Safety Sense." Honda's radar cruise control system is maybe a little bit better than Toyota's. Looks like Toyota has a basic system for the lower levels of trim, and then a fancier system that can deal with lower speeds on the upper trims and with option packages. Honda has the standard low speed cruise across the line.

    But the big win for Honda here is standard AndroidAuto/Apple CarPlay, which Toyota strangely doesn't offer. The Accord LX is almost certainly not going to offer a power seat, but ultimately have lived with AndroidAuto in my 2016 Accord for a year, and loving it, I think that Toyota really missed the boat here, handing Honda a significant competitive advantage. Also, Honda is giving at standard 8" display for this on the base model, while Toyota only gives 8 inches on the upper trim.

    I think the 2018 Accord beats the 2018 Camry on interior features because of AndroidAuto/Apple CarPlay. And if you need a power seat for your Accord, you can always step up to a higher model to get it. But even the top of the line Camry will still have "Entune."
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    I built an LE with the moonroof and BLIS package, and I think it came in at about $26,500. A very good deal, with those 2 must have options (power seat also being a requirement). I do recall that the Toyota for some reason did not have satellite radio either, a big fail. Car play would have been nice, especially if not ponying up extra for Navi (and I have no clue if that LE I built has nav app of some sort built in).

    Wish Honda would release the actual features content. Not sure which models will have BLIS, which seems to be the only questionable item (possibly XM too I guess), though the 1.5l Sport might still skimp on features. The EX Accord should pretty much have everything important though (pending answering the BLIS question).

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    Here's what Motor Trend says about the 2018 Camry's "Entune":

    "One user-interfacepalm: No Apple CarPlay or Android Auto availability. Toyota is feuding with both software companies for refusing to fully disclose the workings and security protocols of their back-end programming—so it developed its own app, called Scout GPS. It works in conjunction with Toyota’s Entune app to bring phone-based navigation along with the typical music streaming, news, stock, sports, and other apps to lower-level infotainment systems. (Top trims get embedded navigation.) The shortcomings: Your phone must be tethered via both Bluetooth and the cord and needs the Scout app live on the screen; there’s no easy way to push an address from your phone to Scout. It’s also a subscription service (free for three years then $25 per year)."

    http://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyota/camry/2018/2018-toyota-camry-first-drive-review/
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    well, at least it has some level of Navi available. better than nothing!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    stickguy said:

    well, at least it has some level of Navi available. better than nothing!

    Yeah, it's kinda impressive actually—standard navi on the base Camry. Much better than no navi.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    edited July 2017
    I posted this on another discussion, but I think you might get a chuckle out of it.
    The kids' dog was sniffing around the left front of the car and even tried to get under it, so we decided to open the hood. Surprise!



    A 2017 Fusion.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    stickguy said:

    I built an LE with the moonroof and BLIS package, and I think it came in at about $26,500. A very good deal, with those 2 must have options (power seat also being a requirement). I do recall that the Toyota for some reason did not have satellite radio either, a big fail. Car play would have been nice, especially if not ponying up extra for Navi (and I have no clue if that LE I built has nav app of some sort built in).

    Wish Honda would release the actual features content. Not sure which models will have BLIS, which seems to be the only questionable item (possibly XM too I guess), though the 1.5l Sport might still skimp on features. The EX Accord should pretty much have everything important though (pending answering the BLIS question).

    Yes, as you say, with the reduced visibility in the new Accord I think a BLIS system will be very important. I wouldn't buy one without it. Like you, I think it'll start at the EX level. Guess we'll find out in a couple of months.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    I posted this on another discussion, but I think you might get a chuckle out of it.
    The kids' dog was sniffing around the left front of the car and even tried to get under it, so we decided to open the hood. Surprise!



    A 2017 Fusion.

    Oh yeah, the 454 Chevy block... :p
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    @Mr_Shiftright,
    HA HA! A real sleeper.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    Looking at the design of the dash on the 2018 Camry, it's clearly a huge step up from the last generation. Shown is a higher end model with navi and the 8" screen. Standard on the lower trims is a 7" screen....


    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    When I first saw pix of the 2018 Camry dash a few months ago I thought it wouldn't be possible for Honda to top it with the 2018 Accord, but I think I was wrong. For starters, the 2018 Accord has a standard 8" screen. And what Honda calls their "slim look" for their dash is growing on me. I also think Honda's knobs look more upscale and functional than found on the Camry. But they are both very nice, and seem ergonomically to be well designed. Anyone else have any thoughts?




    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited July 2017
    Someone has posted a video visual comparison of the 2018 Camry and 2018 Accord....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVN4B-_qRpM
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    One of the weird and interesting things about the new Accord is that you can clearly see the radiator. Functional or freaky?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,027
    benjaminh said:

    When I first saw pix of the 2018 Camry dash a few months ago I thought it wouldn't be possible for Honda to top it with the 2018 Accord, but I think I was wrong. For starters, the 2018 Accord has a standard 8" screen. And what Honda calls their "slim look" for their dash is growing on me. I also think Honda's knobs look more upscale and functional than found on the Camry. But they are both very nice, and seem ergonomically to be well designed. Anyone else have any thoughts?

    A couple of picky little things - both of them seem to have had some trouble figuring out what to do with the left-side vent, so Toyota puts a bulge in the door panel to fill the space while Honda lets the vent protrude beyond the side of the dash. Both rather odd. I like how Honda found space for a cubby ahead of the console which Toyota seems to lack with its swoopy shape. I prefer Toyota's shift lever to Honda's buttons. My first impression is that the Honda dash is a cleaner design than the Toyota, but we will have to want and see in the flesh.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    Honda has eliminated the CD player for the 2018 Accord. The 2018 Camry can still play CDs.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think Camry will continue to lead due to fleet sales and probably a lower cost than Accord.

    While I think the current Fusion still looks better than either the new Camry or Accord it's going on 7 years with no visual changes to speak of which isn't going to help dwindling sales. People like new and different things.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited July 2017
    Yeah, I agree that the Fusion looks a little better than these two rather strange-looking cars. But novelty sometimes can spur sales....
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    benjaminh said:

    Yeah, I agree that the Fusion looks a little better than these two rather strange-looking cars. But novelty sometimes can spur sales....

    The biggest problem is repeat buyers. I own a 2013 Fusion - first year of the new model. If I bought a 2018 model it would essentially be identical to my 2013. Most people want something different even with the same model. Mid cycle refreshes after 3 years and new vehicles after 5-6 years accomplishes this. I suspect people with expiring leases or those wanting to trade a 3-5 yr old Fusion want something different and are going to a different brand.

    Mark Fields really screwed this up. The new management understands the problem and is moving to fix it but it will still be a couple of years to catch up.

    In the meantime there should be some killer deals on Fusions which are still great cars with all the new features except auto emergency braking (still a headscratcher why Ford hasn't rolled that out on more vehicles).
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    Both dashes look nice. Nav screen sits higher in accord. Seat comfort and actual ergonomics would be more important.

    Camry actual resembles the sonata design quite a bit.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    akirby said:

    benjaminh said:

    Yeah, I agree that the Fusion looks a little better than these two rather strange-looking cars. But novelty sometimes can spur sales....

    The biggest problem is repeat buyers. I own a 2013 Fusion - first year of the new model. If I bought a 2018 model it would essentially be identical to my 2013. Most people want something different even with the same model. Mid cycle refreshes after 3 years and new vehicles after 5-6 years accomplishes this. I suspect people with expiring leases or those wanting to trade a 3-5 yr old Fusion want something different and are going to a different brand.

    Mark Fields really screwed this up. The new management understands the problem and is moving to fix it but it will still be a couple of years to catch up.

    In the meantime there should be some killer deals on Fusions which are still great cars with all the new features except auto emergency braking (still a headscratcher why Ford hasn't rolled that out on more vehicles).
    True. And as you say, it's not just in looks that the Fusion is falling behind the competition, but in engineering. Take mpg. Most people who buy a midsize car, other things being equal, would like it to get good mileage. Other things like power, style, handling, and features may be of equal or greater importance, but for most people mpg is somewhere in the mix.

    The 2017 Fusion with the standard engine is rated 25 mpg combined, which is where the Honda Accord was about 10 years ago. Even with the optional 1.5 turbo the Fusion gets only 27.

    The 2017 Accord with the standard engine and CVT is rated at 30 mpg combined.

    The new 2018 Camry with the all-new "Dynamic Force" engine and 8-speed automatic transmission is rated 32 mpg combined.

    The real world savings aren't huge, but depending on how much you drive the Fusion might cost you c. $400 a year more to gas up than the new Camry.

    But, since you can probably get a comparably equipped Fusion for maybe $4000 less than a Camry, it's unlikely you'll ever save enough during ownership to make that alone worthwhile. But the style, features, etc. might do it.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • pensfan83pensfan83 Member Posts: 2,537
    A Ford dealer knocked almost 10 % off MSRP plus incentives right out of the gate on a Fusion Sport. When I expressed that I wasn't looking to pull the trigger on one they came down a little more. I wish I liked the driving experience more because I would have jumped on that deal.
    1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2022 Acura MDX Type S Advance - 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road - 2006 BMW 330Ci ZHP
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    pensfan83 said:

    A Ford dealer knocked almost 10 % off MSRP plus incentives right out of the gate on a Fusion Sport. When I expressed that I wasn't looking to pull the trigger on one they came down a little more. I wish I liked the driving experience more because I would have jumped on that deal.

    What didn't you like about the driving experience?

    Last time I had a Fusion as a rental about 5 years ago, with the base 2.5 engine, I was shocked at how loud and unrefined it sounded. It almost sounded like animals being tortured under the hood when you floored it. Made me appreciate my Honda's engine a lot more.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    I would bet he new 1.5l accord will be at least as good as the Camry.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    stickguy said:

    I would bet he new 1.5l accord will be at least as good as the Camry.

    Yeah, I think you're right that the new turbo/CVT on the new Accord will equal the mpg on the new Camry.

    What's going to be also interesting is acceleration. The Camry "Dynamic Force" 2.5 is rated at 203 hp, while the new Accord's 1.5 turbo is rated at 192. But the turbo has more torque at a lower rpm level.

    And then there's weight. The 2018 Camry base LE comes in at 3296 pounds, which is pretty good, but the comparable 2018 Accord LX is apparently going to weigh c. 3100 flat—which is the lightest of all midsize cars. The 2018 Accord has dropped by more than 100 pounds compared to the 2017 Accord. Anyway, the almost 200 pounds of additional weight the 2018 Camry has compared to the 2018 Accord might also make a difference in terms of acceleration and mpg.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • pensfan83pensfan83 Member Posts: 2,537
    benjaminh said:

    What didn't you like about the driving experience?

    Last time I had a Fusion as a rental about 5 years ago, with the base 2.5 engine, I was shocked at how loud and unrefined it sounded. It almost sounded like animals being tortured under the hood when you floored it. Made me appreciate my Honda's engine a lot more.

    The driving dynamics...it simply drove like the heavy car that it is and the AWD is there to keep the front wheels from spinning, it's not a performance tuned system like Acura or Audi. In terms of power it's a rocket, I had no problem getting up to speed, passing cars, etc. If Ford put the car on a diet, upgraded the transmission, and tuned the AWD system they would have my attention (and probably my money). I only drove the Sport so I can't speak for the other trim levels with the 2.0 or 1.5 Ecoboost.

    My brother has one though with the 2.5 and I couldn't agree more. He wanted the 1.5 but they claimed they couldn't knock enough off sticker, even with incentives to meet him at his target. Ironic considering they opened the vault for me.
    1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2022 Acura MDX Type S Advance - 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road - 2006 BMW 330Ci ZHP
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited July 2017
    Just looked it up, and the base 2017 Fusion without any options weighs 3431—more than 300 pounds more than a 2018 Accord LX.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    cski said:

    nyccarguy said:

    cski said:

    fushigi said:

    We've become a sedan / SUV household. Wife likes smaller cars (currently driving a '12 Elantra) but I really like the CUV/SUV category. Easier entry/exit and higher driving seating position are, for me, much nicer than lowering myself to get in and having to basically climb out of a sedan. I've a bum knee so it takes substantially more effort - and some pain - to deal with a car v. something that rides at CUV height. I don't care much that fuel economy is worse as I average only 8K or so miles a year.

    Even with a CVT my QX60 is plenty fast; C&D clocked it at 7.1 seconds to 60. For '17, Infiniti/Nissan bumped the 3.5 to 295HP/270ft-lb so there's power to spare. It's only turning around 2100 RPMs at 80MPH and 2400 at 90. With the 3rd row in use. :smile:

    I am sorry, but I have become confused by Infiniti's naming system. I swore I saw a Q60 on the highway and it was a slinky sports sedan.
    Your eyes are playing tricks on you (or some dope re-badged his sedan), but the Q60 is a coupe. The dealer where I bought my CPO 2015 Q40 has this helpful guide posted on their website: http://www.pepeinfiniti.com/infiniti-model-name-changes.htm

    If you take a look at my signature line, it says 2015 Infiniti G37X Q40 AWD.
    I am proud to say that since I set up the display, I have had no tickets. 4 years have gone by. No tickets. I never exceed 69mph....going for broke breaks my car and my wallet. I am not insane, so I am going to pass on the Mustang and buy a 4cyl Accord Sport. Automatic. In the hands of a person with my personality, a Mustang would be a 2600lb weapon, and I always think about my daughters every time I see a pedestrian, or get egged on by some spoiled teenager in an 89 vette. I am done taking chances, blowing high pressure hoses, and killing engines.
    Easier said than done. But it must be done.
    To each his own; I'm 60 years old and moving in the opposite direction(but I've accrued no tickets since 1997 and only two warnings in the past four years). I almost developed a case of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome giving point-bys to other instructors at HPDEs so my 3er was elevated to garage queen status and I bought an MS3 to learn the correct FWD performance driving techniques. Duly informed, I traded it for my 2er in January 2016. I've never owned a car that ran the 1/4 mile in the high twelves but now there's simply no going back. Just knowing the car's capabilities is enough; I almost never participate in the Stoplight Grand Prix anymore-although I did annihilate a cocky punk in a diesel pickup last week...

    I like the Club Sport the 2er so much I'm really not looking to replace it; if I had to I'd either go with an M2, Focus RS or perhaps the upcoming 2018 Mustang GT(a 2017 would be a lateral move at best). My bride of 31 years-bless her heart-doesn't bat an eye at my automotive pursuits(although she recently told me that she was glad I didn't buy the Plum Crazy Challenger SRT I once looked at). If forced to be practical I'd probably wind up with a GTI Sport or a Fiesta ST with the mountune MP215 upgrade. 0-60 in the low sixes is a minimum requirement for me. AS I like to say, growing old is inevitable, but growing up is optional...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • pensfan83pensfan83 Member Posts: 2,537
    benjaminh said:

    Just looked it up, and the base 2017 Fusion without any options weighs 3431—more than 300 pounds more than a 2018 Accord LX.

    Another area in the Mark Fields era where Ford has fallen behind its rivals.
    1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2022 Acura MDX Type S Advance - 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road - 2006 BMW 330Ci ZHP
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,061
    edited July 2017
    @benjaminh - If I had to choose between the 2018 Camry or the 2018 Accord, I think I'd have to lean towards the Accord.

    After almost 11 months with my Jetta SE and its meager 150HP 1.4T, I don't think I could ever go back to a naturally aspirated engine again. The torque is just too seductive (184 ft/lb for my Jetta), and, at altitude, there isn't as much of a drop off in performance with a forced induction engine.

    Ironically, given the stats posted earlier, the pounds per HP for both the Camry and Accord are almost identical (16.24 for the Camry; 16.15 for the Accord). I doubt that 90% of the buying population would even notice the difference, if driven back to back.

    Also, the lack of Apple CarPlay in the Camry is a serious detriment; I love CP in my Jetta, and just dropped my XM subscription.

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    After we drove the mini, wife and I went next door to look for new Camry. Even my wife seemed to find it odd, as in why bother since you would never get one of those!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    The 1.8t engine in the Jetta is a hoot. Love the torque. Civic 1.5t also felt plenty strong. The accord is only going to be a few hundred pounds heavier, but they dialed up the HP so should also be enjoyable to drive.

    The mini had serious scoot. Did not even need a downshift to pull hard.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,061
    stickguy said:

    The 1.8t engine in the Jetta is a hoot. Love the torque. Civic 1.5t also felt plenty strong. The accord is only going to be a few hundred pounds heavier, but they dialed up the HP so should also be enjoyable to drive.

    The mini had serious scoot. Did not even need a downshift to pull hard.

    IIRC, the torque for both the VW 1.4T and the 1.8T are the same

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited July 2017
    A specs page for the 2018 Accord is available for download. It's preliminary, and I've just started looking at it, but a few things of note....

    I was wrong about the standard AndroidAuto etc. screen size for the Accord. Seemingly lower level models get 7". What we've seen pictured are the upper-level 8" models.

    Push-button start/smart entry appears to be standard even on the LX. Currently you need an EX to get that.

    Fuel tank goes down from 17 gals to 14.8. That seems small. But with rear leg room going up by almost 2 inches, and the trunk going up by almost a foot, I guess something had to give. And, we can assume, they are counting on an increase in mpg. Still, with my current Accord I can get c. 500 miles on the highway—and still have a couple of gallons left over. I don't think that'll be possible on the 2018 Accord.

    It looks like 17" tires with alloy wheels are standard. Currently the LX gets 16". Seems maybe too good to be true? This is preliminary.

    Low speed follow cruise is standard. Optional on Camry.

    LED tail lights are standard.

    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    I'm still bummed about the rear visibility in the new Accord, which will likely be poor. But with a blind spot monitoring system maybe this is ok?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    where did you find the specs? Got a link?

    As to visibility, hard to tell from pictures. That I need to see in person. But common theme now in all cars is lousy rear and side 1/4 view.

    I expected tank size to drop, but not that much. Annoys me too. They did the same thing in the civic, and the CRV. CRV is especially bad (I think 14.1?) because that won't come close to getting the same real world mileage as the sedans. But, if the Accord can pull a legit 30 around town and 40 highway, should be workable. I do like the big tank on the Sonata, and the passat was a camel. Easy to see 550-600 range on the TC after a fill up. I was assuming Accord might drop to about 16 though.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,061
    stickguy said:

    where did you find the specs? Got a link?

    As to visibility, hard to tell from pictures. That I need to see in person. But common theme now in all cars is lousy rear and side 1/4 view.

    I expected tank size to drop, but not that much. Annoys me too. They did the same thing in the civic, and the CRV. CRV is especially bad (I think 14.1?) because that won't come close to getting the same real world mileage as the sedans. But, if the Accord can pull a legit 30 around town and 40 highway, should be workable. I do like the big tank on the Sonata, and the passat was a camel. Easy to see 550-600 range on the TC after a fill up. I was assuming Accord might drop to about 16 though.

    I would think that biologic needs would interfere with that kind of highway range - that's 10 hours at 60 MPH.

    Anything over 400 to a tank would be a good range for highway use.

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2017
    benjaminh said:

    In terms of features, both the 2018 Camry and the 2018 Accord are going to be impressively equipped for "base" models. The 2018 Camry LE lists for $24,900 with destination, and includes a lot of standard stuff....

    https://www.toyota.com/camry/camry-features/

    For instance, the 2018 Camry LE has "Safety Sense" as standard, which includes pre-collision pedestrian detection, lane departure alert with steering assist, automatic high beams, and Dynamic radar cruise control. Most of that stuff I personally feel mixed about, but the last feature is something that I'd like—and it was only available on high-priced Lexus models just a few years ago.

    The 2018 Camry LE also has 17" tires with alloy wheels standard, Toyota's Entune 3.0 with navi w/7" display, 8-way power driver's seat, 60/40 split folding rear seat, "wood" interior trim, 4 window auto up/down, led illuminated glove box, etc.

    That's pretty impressive for the entry-level model. Although in fact, strangely, in about 5 months, for $500 less, you'll be able to get the even more base L model, which eliminates the power seat and other stuff to save weight and costs, ultimately boosting mpg a little. I think very few people are going to get the L...

    In terms of equipment on the 2018 Accord LX, we don't have quite the same level of detail, and we don't know the pricing yet, but I very much doubt it'll be more than $400 more than the Camry LE. But there is a lot of info at Honda's site:

    http://hondanews.com/releases/dramatic-design-of-reimagined-2018-honda-accord-signals-new-direction-for-america-s-retail-best-selling-midsize-sedan

    Every 2018 Accord is going to have HondaSensing, which is mostly similar to Toyota's "Safety Sense." Honda's radar cruise control system is maybe a little bit better than Toyota's. Looks like Toyota has a basic system for the lower levels of trim, and then a fancier system that can deal with lower speeds on the upper trims and with option packages. Honda has the standard low speed cruise across the line.

    But the big win for Honda here is standard AndroidAuto/Apple CarPlay, which Toyota strangely doesn't offer. The Accord LX is almost certainly not going to offer a power seat, but ultimately have lived with AndroidAuto in my 2016 Accord for a year, and loving it, I think that Toyota really missed the boat here, handing Honda a significant competitive advantage. Also, Honda is giving at standard 8" display for this on the base model, while Toyota only gives 8 inches on the upper trim.

    I think the 2018 Accord beats the 2018 Camry on interior features because of AndroidAuto/Apple CarPlay. And if you need a power seat for your Accord, you can always step up to a higher model to get it. But even the top of the line Camry will still have "Entune."

    I think the 2018 Camry is the only attractive Camry I have ever seen. I think the "L" will stand for "leased" and probably will be the new rental fleet choice, along with the Malibu as a more conservative rental. The Camry is a spaceship in comparison. Love the new Civic Touring. Never have loved a Civic either. I am trying to keep an open mind on the whole array of choices as my cars 5th birthday is up in December.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    stickguy said:

    where did you find the specs? Got a link?

    As to visibility, hard to tell from pictures. That I need to see in person. But common theme now in all cars is lousy rear and side 1/4 view.

    I expected tank size to drop, but not that much. Annoys me too. They did the same thing in the civic, and the CRV. CRV is especially bad (I think 14.1?) because that won't come close to getting the same real world mileage as the sedans. But, if the Accord can pull a legit 30 around town and 40 highway, should be workable. I do like the big tank on the Sonata, and the passat was a camel. Easy to see 550-600 range on the TC after a fill up. I was assuming Accord might drop to about 16 though.

    Yes, look at this page under "Related document" on the right. It's a downloadable excel file, and so you need up-to-date ms office to read it.

    http://hondanews.com/releases/dramatic-design-of-reimagined-2018-honda-accord-signals-new-direction-for-america-s-retail-best-selling-midsize-sedan
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2017
    cski said:

    benjaminh said:

    In terms of features, both the 2018 Camry and the 2018 Accord are going to be impressively equipped for "base" models. The 2018 Camry LE lists for $24,900 with destination, and includes a lot of standard stuff....

    https://www.toyota.com/camry/camry-features/

    For instance, the 2018 Camry LE has "Safety Sense" as standard, which includes pre-collision pedestrian detection, lane departure alert with steering assist, automatic high beams, and Dynamic radar cruise control. Most of that stuff I personally feel mixed about, but the last feature is something that I'd like—and it was only available on high-priced Lexus models just a few years ago.

    The 2018 Camry LE also has 17" tires with alloy wheels standard, Toyota's Entune 3.0 with navi w/7" display, 8-way power driver's seat, 60/40 split folding rear seat, "wood" interior trim, 4 window auto up/down, led illuminated glove box, etc.

    That's pretty impressive for the entry-level model. Although in fact, strangely, in about 5 months, for $500 less, you'll be able to get the even more base L model, which eliminates the power seat and other stuff to save weight and costs, ultimately boosting mpg a little. I think very few people are going to get the L...

    In terms of equipment on the 2018 Accord LX, we don't have quite the same level of detail, and we don't know the pricing yet, but I very much doubt it'll be more than $400 more than the Camry LE. But there is a lot of info at Honda's site:

    http://hondanews.com/releases/dramatic-design-of-reimagined-2018-honda-accord-signals-new-direction-for-america-s-retail-best-selling-midsize-sedan

    Every 2018 Accord is going to have HondaSensing, which is mostly similar to Toyota's "Safety Sense." Honda's radar cruise control system is maybe a little bit better than Toyota's. Looks like Toyota has a basic system for the lower levels of trim, and then a fancier system that can deal with lower speeds on the upper trims and with option packages. Honda has the standard low speed cruise across the line.

    But the big win for Honda here is standard AndroidAuto/Apple CarPlay, which Toyota strangely doesn't offer. The Accord LX is almost certainly not going to offer a power seat, but ultimately have lived with AndroidAuto in my 2016 Accord for a year, and loving it, I think that Toyota really missed the boat here, handing Honda a significant competitive advantage. Also, Honda is giving at standard 8" display for this on the base model, while Toyota only gives 8 inches on the upper trim.

    I think the 2018 Accord beats the 2018 Camry on interior features because of AndroidAuto/Apple CarPlay. And if you need a power seat for your Accord, you can always step up to a higher model to get it. But even the top of the line Camry will still have "Entune."

    I think the 2018 Camry is the only attractive Camry I have ever seen. I think the "L" will stand for "leased" and to rental agencies.
    pensfan83 said:

    benjaminh said:

    What didn't you like about the driving experience?

    Last time I had a Fusion as a rental about 5 years ago, with the base 2.5 engine, I was shocked at how loud and unrefined it sounded. It almost sounded like animals being tortured under the hood when you floored it. Made me appreciate my Honda's engine a lot more.

    The driving dynamics...it simply drove like the heavy car that it is and the AWD is there to keep the front wheels from spinning, it's not a performance tuned system like Acura or Audi. In terms of power it's a rocket, I had no problem getting up to speed, passing cars, etc. If Ford put the car on a diet, upgraded the transmission, and tuned the AWD system they would have my attention (and probably my money). I only drove the Sport so I can't speak for the other trim levels with the 2.0 or 1.5 Ecoboost.

    My brother has one though with the 2.5 and I couldn't agree more. He wanted the 1.5 but they claimed they couldn't knock enough off sticker, even with incentives to meet him at his target. Ironic considering they opened the vault for me.
    Animals being tortured in the engine compartment....Yes I think I read that rats have been trained to whip the Gerbils spinning the crank as an MPG boosting measure. Please consult the manual on "Organic Drive". Do not read the subsection on methane exhaust recirculation system prior to or directly after eating. I believe I read in a reputable magazine the Catalytic Converter has been rebadged Proper Organic Operation Processor, or P.O.O.P.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    I work range differently. I hate to get gas when on the road, even if I have to make bio and stretch the leg breaks. Would rather get where I am going. Plus, I always leave a cushion, so I work off of about 1/4 tank (or 3 gallons minimum) before refueling. So cut it a little, and the Accord is a 12 gallon in reality capacity. Fine if pulling a legit 40. If getting low 30s, or mid 20s around town, it will have range maybe as good as our RDX, which stinks!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    Great visibility has always been a hallmark of the Accord. I'd be very surprised if they changed that.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited July 2017
    suydam said:

    Great visibility has always been a hallmark of the Accord. I'd be very surprised if they changed that.

    They changed it. It's the first Accord to likely have poor rear visibility.

    Look at the rear windows of the 2018 Accord—no more "Hofmeister kink":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofmeister_kink

    There's a reason BMW has kept with this kind of design for c. 60 years, while almost everything else has changed—and part of it is great rearward visibility.

    That little window in the back of the Accord's driver side, in the rear, looks functional from the outside. But I've been in cars like that, and the reality is that from the driver's seat you can't see out of those windows because of the pillars. Now maybe because the 2018 Accord's rear window is a little larger than others, and maybe because the pillars are maybe slightly thinner, perhaps this window is useful from the driver's seat? But I doubt it.

    So, most of us will want or need Blind Spot monitoring, which the 2018 Accord will have on some trim levels. This is the major let-down for me for the 2018 Accord. Of course, my 2016 Accord still has plenty of life to it. But I was considering trading in my wife's 2013 Accord in maybe a few years...and now we'll probably consider the Camry because of this.



    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    You can ask cski about this. When he got his Optima about 4 years ago he was shocked that he couldn't see out the back very well, and even once complained about something like "invisible cars" coming out to get him....! Those weren't quite his words, but...Anyway, he got used to it, used his mirrors in a different and better way, etc.

    But if you've been used to an Accord with great visibility all around—that appears to be gone for 2018.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    Here's the side-view of the 2018 Camry. About the same amount of glass as the 2018 Accord, but from the driver's seat of the Accord, when you're driving, it's almost like that rear window is blacked out, creating a huge rear pillar that blocks your vision. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope so. But I doubt it. The Camry here, with just that thin little mullion (or whatever it's called on a car) is likely to have much better rear visibility. That to me might override the other virtues that the Accord will no-doubt have....


    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 240,061
    stickguy said:

    I work range differently. I hate to get gas when on the road, even if I have to make bio and stretch the leg breaks. Would rather get where I am going. Plus, I always leave a cushion, so I work off of about 1/4 tank (or 3 gallons minimum) before refueling. So cut it a little, and the Accord is a 12 gallon in reality capacity. Fine if pulling a legit 40. If getting low 30s, or mid 20s around town, it will have range maybe as good as our RDX, which stinks!

    That's probably the difference between road trips on the east coast versus out west.

    On the road trips to CA, the drive to Grand Junction is 265 miles; to Green River, UT, another 100 miles on top of that. After that, there is about a 110 mile stretch where there are *no* services, so even with a 500 mile range, there is no way I'd do that last bit with a quarter tank showing.

    And, that distance takes you over a couple of 10,000+ elevation passes, which hurts fuel economy.

    Richfield, UT - which we've used for overnight stops in the past - is just under 500 miles from our house.

    But, we've gone all the way to St. George, UT (652 miles), Mesquite, NV (690 miles), or Las Vegas (771 miles) in a single day. Two tanks minimum, sometimes 3, depending on what we were driving.

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    We used to own a Mazda 5. The rear windows on that looks quite functional from the outside. From the driver's seat, however, the one on the driver's side is difficult to use because of the angle you're at when driving, plus the very thick pillars surrounding it. I could see out the back on the driver's side in the very rear only if I craned my neck toward the passenger side, but it was uncomfortable and stressful. Driving our 4 Accords over the years has been more relaxing most of the time because you can always see all the way around you....Yes, if you're great at using mirrors you don't even need to look behind you, etc. But so far that's not been the way I like to drive. I realize I may need to work on this....



    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    A Fusion is heavier than most of the mid size competition, but it is also a good riding and handling car.
    The 1.5 turbo makes good real world power, but not a drag racer.
    My wife and I took about 150 mile round trip a couple of weekends ago. MPG readout is currently 34+.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    Interesting discussion about visibility. My daughter took my sonata to work today, and that is a lot of highway, including some tricky merging, and a piece of I95 where she has to move about 5 lanes to the right in about a mile, at busy traffic time. Even though both the Jetta and sonata have pretty good visibility, she always comments that the BLIS on my car is a "lifesaver" on the highway. I think it is a fantastic feature, and almost a must have now. I really miss it on the RDX.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    Michael, yes, different back east. My outer limit now is driving from philly area to NC for daughter's college. That is about 445 miles. Jetta can do it, and so can my car. The Acura, not even close. But, only 1 more year of that, then our next longest usual trip is up to NY at 270 miles, or Boston at maybe 320. And I doubt I ever get more than 5 miles from a gas station!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    benjaminh said:

    When I first saw pix of the 2018 Camry dash a few months ago I thought it wouldn't be possible for Honda to top it with the 2018 Accord, but I think I was wrong. For starters, the 2018 Accord has a standard 8" screen. And what Honda calls their "slim look" for their dash is growing on me. I also think Honda's knobs look more upscale and functional than found on the Camry. But they are both very nice, and seem ergonomically to be well designed. Anyone else have any thoughts?




    That interior is showing some flashes of Audi A4. I like it. Not sure I'm a fan of button gears though.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Sign In or Register to comment.