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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I tell you what, I had the opportunity to sit in a 09 Sonata yesterday. It looks just like my moms Lexus RX330. I did not get to drive one though.

    About the FE in the Mazda6. I would suspect you should be able to get 32-33 possibly driving conservative. I just got 32mpg's on a trip to Maine this weekend going 70-75 with the a/c on with my car full of luggage and my pregnant wife in my 05 4 cyl.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,665
    I think you're right about the I4s being built in Mexico but the 3.0L V6s are/were built in Cleveland OH. I still think Mazda uses their own heads and engine controls even if the rest of the engines are the same. Not sure about the new 2.5L.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    A Lexus is about the same to repair as a BMW if not more.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Don't know why you are telling me that, however, my moms Lexus has never been to the shop and her previous X5 was a frequent visitor. Thank God it was a lease and she gladly returned it.

    All luxury cars are expensive to repair, mainly because of the computer systems and silly labor charges that these high line dealers charge. The mechanical parts are really no more expensive then Toyota parts.
  • iwantoneiwantone Posts: 52
    Who has the better reliability rating or history honda or nissan? I have always been a honda accord owner and I am leaning that way again.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,665
    Honda has the better history, but the competition has gotten better across the board and Honda has had a few problems (specifically transmissions). There's no reason not to buy another Accord if you like them, but if you're open to other vehicles reliability would not be a reason to avoid the competition, although Kia and VW might be on the bubble.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    Relative to this discussion, the Optima is rated "above average" by CR for predicted reliability. It shares its I4 powertrain with the Sonata, which is rated even higher for reliability by CR. Passat is unfortunately well below average in CR's predicted reliability.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    You are a lucky one. Lexus does break down, so do all brands. It's true the X5 at one point did have problems, but so did the first year Lexus LX something or other, it was a nightmare.

    bdkinnh, "BMW 5-Series Sedans" #11855, 6 Jun 2007 10:08 am
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    You can play the odds. Any car can become an owners nightmare. Don't go by the surveys. Buy the car on how much you will like driving it in 3 or 4 years.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    You are dead on there! Every car company has had or continues to have issues at come point in some of their cars. My moms RX330 is a 2004, and has been great. The one complaint she does have is that the fuel economy stinks. I think she gets 20-21 highway.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Honda does have a long term better track record as a company. The competition has been catching up. There are many here that have had little to no issues with the following: Hyundai Sonata, Ford Fusion, Nissan Altima, Toyota Camry, Mazda6, Honda Accord, and Kia Optima. If I do recall, there seems to be happy people with the Malibu/Aura too, however, they have not been on the market too long to asses long term. The only car I would avoid, and this is just my opinion, is the VW Passat.

    My suggestion in drive the ones you are interested in and see how you like them. If it's between the Accord and Altima, they are both great cars. You should buy which ever one you think suits you best.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The only car I would avoid, and this is just my opinion, is the VW Passat.

    Trust me buddy, it's not just your opinion. :)

    If it is, I second that!
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    Trust me buddy, it's not just your opinion.

    If it is, I second that!

    All in favor?

    *raises hand* "Aye!" :)
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    My question is: If so many people feel that VW is so terrible why do all the testers/reviews praise them for initial quality, great interiors, nice styling, decent to great handling, excellent safety, decent mpg, etc and the fact that they seem to hold their resale value so good???

    Is it just that one might pay an $100 or so extra per year in routine maint and a couple of more repairs over a long period? Or is it just people jumping on the bandwagon with no real knowledge of the brand? VW seems to have improved their quality quite a bit over the last few years, much like GM and Ford has. I would venture a bet that most of the people that bad mouth them have never even driven one let alone owned one. I have owned three in my lifetime and had good and bad luck with them but enjoyed every one.

    I guess if all you're looking for in a car is the absolute least repair cost or fewest trips to the dealer than you should probably avoid VW. But I personally don't think it is as bad as people like to make out . Maybe it just feels good to bash a brand....I don't know.

    I can remember a time when Hondas and Toyotas were the laughing stock of the auto world here in the US. They were nothing but tin can rust buckets that couldn't even idle if the A/C was on and were knocked out of alignment every time you brushed a curb. This bashing continued by the uninformed until well after they both had improved their product tremendously.

    Just my two cents.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    Or is it just people jumping on the bandwagon with no real knowledge of the brand?

    Well, not a whole LOT of people jumping on the bandwagon based on sales figures. The Passat is relegated to niche status in this mid-sized sedan market due to its relatively high price compared to most competitors. It seems not too many people are willing to pay the premium for what the Passat offers. When you consider what most buyers are looking for in this class of car, "reliability", "passenger room and comfort", and "fuel economy" win out over "crisp handling" and "turbo power".
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    The real problem with VW and Audi and BMW in terms or reliability is that they all source their electrical and electronics components as well as switches and so on from the same German companies. So stuff breaks and falls apart a lot, despite the actual major mechanical parts of the car being fine

    Funny thing is the most significant problem we happen to have had with our VW was related to the Japanese sourced automatic transmission which had valve body replaced at 10K mi.

    Ford and VW are pretty much on par reliability/sales wise everywhere else in the world.

    I wonder if much of the VW reliability problem in the US has been caused by poor maintenance practices here compared to elsewhere as my understanding is, as you imply, that VW is not percieved to have a reliability problem in Europe. The other factor that may come into play is that VW is, I believe, much more a young people's car in the US compared to Europe. Many young people are harder on their cars than older people and many of them also do not properly maintain them.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    Well, not a whole LOT of people jumping on the bandwagon based on sales figures.

    Correct but I don't think many of the "sales" you mention are represented in the posters you see here.

    Something I've found kind of interesting too is that when you see people posting that they are considering different cars it always seems that the Jetta is the one they are classing in with the other midsizers and not the Passat. It's probably because the Jetta seems to fit the segment so well as far as base HP, MPG and price goes.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Is it just that one might pay an $100 or so extra per year in routine maint and a couple of more repairs over a long period?

    I think, on average, that is the reality. However the perception is that there is a wide gap in reliability and repair/maintenance costs. According to Edmunds the Passat has average repair and maintenance costs of $5361 over 5 years and 75,000 miles. The Accord and Camry come in at $4181 and $4936 respectively.

    (Note that the Jetta 2.5, which is not a midsize but was, I think, the car that VW designed to be reliable in the US, comes in at $4621.)

    OTOH, my kid does have a 1996 Jetta, purchased used, and it has had an amazing amount of problems in his one year of ownership.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,681
    Do the math. The number of Passat buyers represented here SHOULD be relatively small. Just as we don't hear much from Galant buyers or Optima buyers.

    Those Jetta buyers you mention are people who are looking for a car at a particular price point vs. looking for a mid-sized sedan.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I just got off the phone with my brother, and I asked him about his GTI. He had a radiator hose failure (all the coolant was all over his driveway), constant problems with the power window system, interior finish pealed (mostly window switches and lock switches), the brake lights were always off kilter. One would always be way too bright, and the other barely lit at all. Numerous CEL's due to O2 sensors, gas cap and other emissions equipment. There was nothing really with the actual drive train. Mostly electrical problems. Anyway, after countless trips to VW service, and being blamed for most of the problems, he decided to never again buy a VW.
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