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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    But a Fusion S is pretty bare-bones, and is one of the few cars in this class that doesn't have ESC even available.

    The 2008 Fusion didn't have it but ESC is now available on the 2009 models.
  • What's wrong with V6 Camry? 3.5L Toyota V6 is a well proven engine. Most problems with 6 spd auto Camry transmissions resolved.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    Yes, but he was looking specifically at a 2008 Fusion. ESC is optional for 2009, right? Not standard as on the Accord, Mazda6, Passat, Sonata, Aura (some trims), and Malibu (some trims)?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I know but the way you phrased it might lead some to believe it still isn't available at all. And what difference does it make whether it's optional or standard? It's available.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    It could make a huge difference depending on how widely available the option is. For example, ABS/ESC is optional on the Optima. But just try to find a car with that package! Hopefully it will be a widely available option, on all trims of the Fusion (and Milan).
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I thought ESC was going to be required on all vehicles at some point.....?

    It's easier to factory order a Ford the way you want it than an import, so getting exactly what you want is just a matter of waiting 4-6 weeks in most cases.
  • I thought ESC was going to be required on all vehicles at some point.....?

    September 2011.
  • Golly, how many engines does Toyota produce?

    Referring to the RAV4 for 2009,
    From :

    The new 2.5L unit that produces 179 HP at 6,000 RPM, along with 172 lb.-ft. of torque at 4,000 RPM (versus 166 HP and 165 lb.-ft. respectively of the previous 2.4L), is matted to a new 4-speed automatic transmission. According to Toyota, fuel efficiency is improved over the 2008 RAV-4 2.4L with EPA mpg estimates of 22 city/28 highway on 4x2 models and 21 city/27 highway on 4x4 models. The top-of-the-line 269 HP 3.5-liter V6 remains unchanged.

    I guess THIS is what will go into the 2010 Camry. Makes more sense than the 2.7L. It'll be more torquey than either of Honda's 2.4L engines. A plus in these ever-heavier midsize sedans.
  • It seems that Honda, which was once a leader in engineering engines that were top of the class in power vs. economy is slacking.

    Toyota's Camry has the 2GR 3.5L which is a mileage leader AND the class-leader in acceleration as well. They have a 6-speed Auto, as does Ford, Mazda, VW, and General Motors. Nissan has upped the ante more with a good implementation of a CVT, and should be applauded for making a 4-cylinder engine that rivals some V6 engines in acceleration, all with city fuel economy and torque that is top of the class.

    Honda's engine is lacking in torque (either one, the 4-cyl models vs. other 4s or the V6 vs other V6s), but doesn't "make it all better" with great economy; if anything, the real-world fuel economy seems to have taken a nosedive compared to the previous generation.

    Even the once-lowly Hyundai Sonata matches or beats the Accord with its fuel economy, all without VCM; a system which has been a problem in a number of cars (check out the Accord VCM Thread here on Edmunds).

    *Steps off Soapbox*

    Sorry, I just had to get that out. Honda went from being a class leader in powertrains and performance in the previous generation to being mediocre/midpack in one generation. Did making the Accord big and beefy also make it too big for its britches?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    That engine would really spice up the Camry. I would assume 22-24city 30-32hwy for the EPA estimates.
  • May give Ford a run for its "Best-In-Class Fuel Economy" claim. Maybe 23/33? Toyota likes to gear tall, remember!

    EDIT: That claim Ford is making is for their upcoming Fusion refresh.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    Since when did Ford have best in class FE, on a car actually on the road anyway?
  • I was talking about their claim for the upcoming Fusion; sorry I didn't make that more clear. I edited to put that in.

    In my head I wrote it, put in reality I didn't! :blush:
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    It's possible, but at least the 2010 Fusion will have a 8 month head start.

    What was the mileage increase in the RAV4?
  • oldcemoldcem Posts: 309
    Not so sure that the Camry V6 is the class leader in acceleration now. The road tests I've read in a couple of the mags indicate the GM midsizers (Aura and Malibu) with the 3.6 are quicker. However, the Camry supposedly delivers better fuel economy than the GM twins. I went with the 3.5 Liter Aura 4 speed that is a good bit slower than the class leaders, but, delivers great fuel economy.

  • According to Motor Trend, the Camry is fastest among the Altima, Accord, and Malibu V6 Sedans.

    Car and Driver ran the Camry SE-V6 with numbers below. Which mags had the GM twins being faster?

    2007 Toyota Camry V-6
    Second Place: The Quickest Cars of 2007: $20,000 to $25,000

    Base price: $24,160
    0-to-60-mph time: 5.8 sec
    Quarter-mile time: 14.3 sec @ 99 mph

    The Saturn Aura XR was ninth on this list.
  • I agree here....I'd say the 3.6 V6 found in the GM Midsize Triplets is faster than say the Accord's or Altima's 3.5L V6s, but I don't think it can match the Mazda6 V6 or Camry V6 for acceleration. I'm ready for an all out test of the midsize four cylinder models though. I'm curious as to how these cars would be ranked based on the traditional requirements for a family, ride, handling, fuel economy and things of that nature. I wonder where the 6 would rank amongst class leaders like the Malibu and Sonata as far as fuel economy on a real-world level.
  • 4-cyl Midsize Comparison

    Check that out, it may be what you're looking for; it's a Car and Driver Comparo.

    For what it is worth, the Motor Trend comparison I referenced in my previous post had the Malibu and the Accord accelerating at the same rate to 60 MPH. Other tests I've seen put the Malibu slightly faster (by about 2 tenths of a second).

    The Camry is simply the fastest family car in the $25,000 category.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    GM has a fantastic 6 cyl. on their hand, the only improvement I can see is on fuel economy.
  • I'm sure Camry gets lower review ratings recently because they sell Camry LE with cheap and crappy Bridgestone Turanza EL400 tires while Honda sells Accords with Michelin. Few $$ that Toyota saves on tires result in bad reviews and lost sales. Otherwise 4 cyl Camry is fastest, smoothest car with shortest braking distance in it's class.
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