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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Please grad, read Captans posts.. will ya!@ it is very obvious he hates Ford and will make up stories and misinformation. And you back him %100.. Any change you or captain or Accordman get a chance you bash away at the blue oval.. and its ok. If I say something to contradict.. its game on!@ ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I bash Ford? Link me to the bashing, please.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    And the 2.0 Zetec.. This engine has proven to be bullit proof!@ too.. yet, lets bash away at something we know nothing about :sick:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    130-145 hp from 2.0 Liters doesn't ring my bell. Reliable is a bonus, but it doesn't make a great engine (if it made that power and got 40 MPG, I might change my tune though :))

    Reliability is only one aspect of a good engine, scape.

    I'll be waiting on my link to the bashing.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "And pay taxes on what they earn"

    Lower pay, lower taxes earned.. :surprise:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'll talk to you more about this on the news and views forums if you like.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'm still waiting on that link to the Ford bashing. Or, were you just lying about me for sport? It makes no difference to me, I know how I truly feel about Ford. I nearly purchased one.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Oh, I'm chillin..
    You don't know how long I have been here at Edmunds and how much "misinformation" I have seen. Most of it comes from the Honda/Toyota brethren on top of that.

    " If one can't see the reason to pay the premium for Accord/Camry/Altima then one shouldn't. By all means go get the less expensive midsizer like Fusion and Sonata. Since in this case he/she would just be paying more for absolutely nothing. However, for those who can justify why the premium is worth it (like me) then there is also nothing wrong to opt for the more expensive camcords. At the end of the day...

    Ya see.. you say "less expensive" Some in this room read this as "cheaper" or "cheap". Thus these sedans are viewed as less than a "premium sedan". That the Fusion/Milan/Sonata or whichever will in no=way last as long as an Accord/Camry or even an Altima!@ Been down this road before my friend with my Ranger in the Tacoma vs Ranger room. Ranger went over 110,000 miles with no issues.. and again in the Escape room vs CRV.. Escape went 75,000 miles with no issues.. I look at this differently. Toyota/Honda used to offer great value in the 70's and 80's. They have lost that edge..
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    That the Fusion/Milan/Sonata or whichever will in no=way last as long as an Accord/Camry or even an Altima!

    Where's this posted other than by you? And why are Honda owners all classified as the same egotistical bigots by you (judging by your account of how we talk)?
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Reliability is only one aspect of a good engine

    Reliability only means that the car works when you want it to. It doesn't mean its that good of a design. A weak design (like the engine in the 500) may run and run, but who wants it to when you discover how woefully underpowered it is?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    THANK YOU. It lends MUCH more credibility to an argument when there is a source. Maybe that's why it is a requirement to cite your sources when writing anything of value that is scholastic in nature.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I think I'll come back when this forum is all about midsize sedans again. Good night everyone. :)
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    source: Consumer Reports an article entitled 'what is an American car - 2 Toyota models (the Camry and Avalon) have significantly more than the Mustang's 60% American made parts content. Read it and weep, or dismiss it as some Ford 'bashing' on CRs part, if you wish. I couldn't bring myself to believe it at first either - that bastion of Americana the Mustang of all things.I believe if you research this a little though you will find a good piece of that offending 40% is under the hoods..
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116

    It would bode well for Ford to put the 2.5 in the Fusion/Milan and have at least 175HP mated to a 6speed auto/manual box. I don't see this happening, if at all until 09 model upgrade.


    Not auto/manual...a real manual with a foot operated clutch pedal and something that sticks up between the seats where you manually select the gear desired.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    scape, this is from your own post

    It would bode well for Ford to put the 2.5 in the Fusion/Milan and have at least 175HP mated to a 6speed auto/manual box. I don't see this happening, if at all until 09 model upgrade.

    You have also said that the Fusion should have the 3.5L engine, instead of the 3.0L. If they do use the 2.5 and the 3.5 liter engines in 09 it will be a generation too late. Why were these engines not used to begin with? Other sedans in this segment have been using higher powered engines for years now. The Fusion is a generation behind. Buying a current generation Fusion is like buying the last generation of most other midsize sedans. The Fusion is still 4 to 5 years behind the competition, IMO.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    my problem with this is the same HP/lb. (1:20) ratio that would yield (let's be kind) - non-competitive acceleration capabilities, keeping in mind that some of these better engines today can and do deliver both power and economy. Taking 3 steps back like this and going back even further to an early 90s engine, is not going to help FE and would kill power of course - buyers these days want BOTH. Hell, the Altima 4 banger will hit that 175HP and leave that old Contour 100 miles behind before the first gas stop. Technology, I believe, is the answer to better more efficient engines, not simply reducing their size.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    The Fusion is still 4 to 5 years behind the competition, IMO.

    The transmission is way behind too. What a huge oversight. Even the base Kia Optima has a Sportmatic shifter. The top of the line Fusion doesn't. Just D or L.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The Accord doesn't have a manumatic either. I've never longed for one, I just use the D3, 2, or 1 when I have ever needed to lower the gears manually.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    So, I guess since the Accord doesn't offer AWD or a six speed automatic its also now behind the Fusion/Milan??? :confuse:
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "Taking 3 steps back like this and going back even further to an early 90s engine, is not going to help FE and would kill power of course - buyers these days want BOTH. Hell, the Altima 4 banger will hit that 175HP and leave that old Contour 100 miles behind before the first gas stop. Technology, I believe, is the answer to better more efficient engines, not simply reducing their size.

    Are you so sure about leaving that "old Contour 100 miles behind?? Contour 5spd 4cyl gets 33MPG..NEW Nissan 4cyl 35MPG. (I know, the Nissan has 45 more HP, but c'mon.. its a 10 year old car). Also, the V6 Contour 5spd got 170HP and 30MPG..Highway.. it also had a 12 gallon tank. ya know, this is dumb... :blush:
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-03-11-cr-picks_x.htm

    I'm sure I'll hear the Honda crowd scream over this one. I know I don't own a Hyundia, but I never said I never would. I say Kudos to Hyundia and all the Hyundia owners. Once this starts to spread and get out.. I bet Hyundia sales will take a nice climb... :surprise:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Scape2 said: "I am just one consumer who saw past all the CR"

    We can't have it both ways, scape.

    You were right though, as a Honda owner, I did love the article. It stated that the Honda Accord was the "Top Pick" in its category. So, what do we believe? Hyundai is equal to Honda and Honda Accord is the Top Pick?

    Sounds reasonable to me, since the Accord was my Top Pick too, and Hyundai has been known to be improving for several years now.

    I guess you'll ignore this post too though, just like the ones asking you to point out my bashing of Ford. Oh well.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Who in this forum would consider a diesel version of their current car, if the price difference was less than $1,500 and the fuel economy jumped by 30 % or more? More torque and less top end power.

    Anyone?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Why are you quoting an article from 2003? It isn't relevant in 2007.

    The great thing about these forums is that one can debate the pros and cons of these cars. At the end of the day, I buy the car I feel most comfortable with. In my book Honda and Toyota lead the segment lead the segment overall. Ford has a lot of catching up to do. In the late 80s/early 90s a family sedan=Ford, not any more. I think Ford offers real value, but a few bucks more one gets into a better class of car.
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Posts: 544
    Good topic. I for one would certainly consider a diesel Accord. Judging by the recent Edmunds report posted earlier, a diesel will be available in the next generation Accord, and I can't wait to test drive it. I also think a full comparison test (price, driving experience, real-world MPG, etc.) between the upcoming Accord diesel and the Camry or Altima hybrids (both Prius technology) will make a great read. I passed on the Hybrid Camry mainly because of the price premium (among other reasons).
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Who in this forum would consider a diesel version of their current car, if the price difference was less than $1,500 and the fuel economy jumped by 30 % or more? More torque and less top end power.

    SIGN ME UP :) :shades:
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    I think Ford offers real value, but a few bucks more one gets into a better class of car.

    Exactly. I'll add Hyundai to that statement.

    Plus if scape bothered to check, sales of Hyundai in 2007 are way off. The Sonata sold about 10,000 units last month. Good car, but 10,000 units? That's hardly a movement.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    beng one of those consumers that somehow doesn't 'see thru all the CR' - it is somewhat interesting to note that Sonata reliability ratings have fallen off in those 4 years since that article. Understandable, IMO in that it was a totally new car in 05. The Fusion been around less time, the jury must be regarded as 'still out', but it may hold its rather lofty position from a reliability standpoint in that in most respects it was not a truly new car at introduction. There are some advantages to using old engines/trannies and established chassis designs etc.. Ford would be doing a lot better if it could approach Hyundai's current product line.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    I like the idea, but I'd have to reserve final judgement until I had a chance to drive it and have at least a couple years to see how it holds up. I tend not to be an early adopter since unanticipated issues often come up even though Honda has done a pretty good job with their new products in the recent past. But I think a diesel would suit my current commute well(short, in city driving). On the other hand, I don't think my criteria for choosing a car would change; a 20% increase in fuel mileage would only save me $6 a week at the most. So that means it would take me 4 years to recoup the extra expense, assuming diesel costs 20% less per gallon. Since I probably will keep my car for 6+ years, it may make sense to go this route if driving dynamics and reliability are still good. But those are big "if's" and wouldn't buy into it until there was some good data showing it holds up.
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