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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • the fusion is actually longer, has a much larger turning circle than the explorer, and can't hold 7 people but i don't hold that against it.

    Well, if you really want to be technical, with a payload of 1100 lbs, the Explorer can't hold 7 people either, unless they are quite svelte.
  • I searched Edmunds, C&D, and MT. None of them had a tested time, just estimates. If you have a link then post it, otherwise I really don't care. The Legacy V6 is overpriced IMO. Nice car, but we can do better at that price point.

    I don't there are reviews for the Legacy with the flat 6 because I don't think its a model that gets a lot of attention. Everyone either goes for the Legacy with the flat 4 or the flat 4 turbo.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Overpriced is in the eyes of the beholder, as you know. In my opinion the top of the line Legacy is the nicest car in the bunch and the fastest. With the turbo and AWD, it will blow the other vehicles away. But that really isn't the point, it's what you feel comfortable with at the price point you want with the features you want. Some people will trade fuel economy for performance, others won't. I've seen 0 to 60 times of about 5.7 for the turbo floating around the 'net. The Legacy comes with two engine choices, you pick the one you like.

    It's all about choices.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Well, if you really want to be technical, with a payload of 1100 lbs, the Explorer can't hold 7 people either, unless they are quite svelte.

    That is the funniest thing to me about SUVs, the minimal payload capacity of them. I once pointed out that our Windstar had a payload capacity of 1800 pounds to a guy whose SUV had an 800ish pound capacity...where's the utility? where's the sport? it is a vehicle, though.

    As for safety the data I have seen shows that for any particular weight range, they are not really any safer than cars for the occupants, while being far more dangerous to the rest of us on the road.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    I've seen 0 to 60 times of about 5.7 for the turbo floating around the 'net. The Legacy comes with two engine choices, you pick the one you like.

    That's great and all, but the discussion focused on the 6 cylinder model, not the blown 4. There are actually 3 engine choices if you count the blown 4 and NA 4 as two separate engines.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    Well, if you really want to be technical, with a payload of 1100 lbs, the Explorer can't hold 7 people either, unless they are quite svelte.

    The standard payload of the current gen Explorer is 1460 lbs. 4X4 models are 1510 lbs or higher depending on the engine.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    That's great and all, but the discussion focused on the 6 cylinder model, not the blown 4. There are actually 3 engine choices if you count the blown 4 and NA 4 as two separate engines.

    You are right 1+1+1=3.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,456
    there is a word that describes the 1100 lbs payload: underrated. :D
    i was pretty happy with how the fusion performed with 4 people plus luggage
    on it's one long trip, so far. first of many i think.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    You are right 1+1+1=3

    Some would think 2 though, and there's nothing wrong with that IMO, so I understand where you were coming from. ;) I was actually kind of surprised to see the various powertrain options for the Legacy though. I think there were like 5 or 6 because you can get the same engine with a 5-speed OR 6-speed MTX. Seems a little crazy!

    In all honesty though, I will replace our leased Explorer with something that has AWD come next Spring when the lease is up. I truly wish more of these mid-sizers had AWD. I like the Legacy OK, but I'm not in love with it. The Fusion is nice on the outside but the inside is a turn-off to me now. So unless the '10 Fusion wows me I'lll be getting another SUV or a CUV. I like the Sable too, but I don't want to buy a dead duck. :sick:

    Give me an AWD Mazda6, Altima, Accord, or a nicer Fusion and I'll be happier. Especially the 6.
  • checking back in...added a new post to the 16-20K sedan thread. Realized that the Accord and the comparison/suggestions on this thread were taking us in the wrong direction. Started our search with the Matrix and maybe a Scion..and was lead into the Sonata from the Elantra/Civic. Wrong way in terms of size. Thanks to all for the input.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    The Legacy GT with a mtx is the quickest, and smallest of the bunch. I have spent a lot of time in all Legacy's, since we have a Subaru store in addition to our Mazda store. The atx Legacy GT has an excess of turbo lag that is just too much to over look. The handling of the Legacy GT is also undesirable. It has a very soft suspension, and the steering is not all that great, and the braking is terrible. You would think with AWD it would be the best handler of the group too, but, it is not. My 05 Mazda6 handles better then the Legacy GT. Now, Subaru offers the GT Spec-B, but also at a premium price tag, and still does not handle as well as it should. Then add in sub par fuel economy and premium fuel and that totally takes it out of the market for most people. If you notice, most Legacy GT's on the road are 2005-2006's. Ever since gas went crazy, Gt sales have taken a hit.

    I almost traded our 2002 Impreza for a Legacy 2.5i, but, my wife did not like it that much. She prefers an Outback. I'm glad she did not go with the Legacy because the rear is no bigger then the Impreza, and the trunk is very small. With a new born baby in the house, the Legacy sedan just does not suit our needs. We are holding out until I can rob a pre-owned Outback at the auction!
  • Yes,
    I also feel Camry's suspension too soft, but it's not right if you take it out of consideration. It's been #1 seller for years for some reason. You should try testing all and read all the bad reviews to find out what you like and dislike. Yes, I found bad reviews are more useful to avoid a car that you won't like. I have owned many different cars and currently have bmw and toyota for their best value in different way.
  • lucky_777lucky_777 Posts: 205
    Suspension in Camry LE soft for a simple reason - it's buyers want cushy and quiet ride for a car that is not as heavy as a Cadillac. For firmer and sportier ride try Camry SE trim.
  • madpistolmadpistol Posts: 126
    No offense, but putting a sport suspension on a car doesn't make it a "sport sedan" by any means. The Camry was tuned to be a midsize land yacht. Therefore, it handles with the agility and feedback equivilant to that of a cruise liner. Instead, the Camry SE sticks out even more because the SE trim is a "land yacht with a sport suspension". That just doesn't make sense. When I drove it, I noticed that I didn't get any feedback through the wheel on the SE model, but I felt everything through the body of the car. It was awful! You can't put a sport suspension on a car and expect it to be called a sport sedan. There's more to it then that. The Camry SE is NOT a sport sedan... not by a mile.

    If you want a sportier sedan, buy an Accord, Altima, Mazda6, etc. If you want a car that soaks up road imperfections and transmits nothing to the driver, get a Sonata or a Camry. Unfortunately, the Camry SE doesn't belong in either of these categories.
  • That's correct. I have Camry LE and Solara SE. The LE is comfy and the SE is a bit sportier. If it's possible, go try BMW............. What you pay is what you get.... I never drove Mazda, but have owned Honda and Nissan before.
  • No offense, but putting a sport suspension on a car doesn't make it a "sport sedan" by any means. The Camry was tuned to be a midsize land yacht. Therefore, it handles with the agility and feedback equivilant to that of a cruise liner. Instead, the Camry SE sticks out even more because the SE trim is a "land yacht with a sport suspension". That just doesn't make sense.

    I think what you are trying to say is that there is more than just shocks and springs to make a sport sedan. I agree with that, but I do think its a good start. Having a suspension that makes the car feel responsive (in addition to good steering feedback and tires that communicate road feel to the driver) are a big part of a "sport sedan."

    I think for most, the Legacy would be considered "too" sporty (the ride is very responsive, but you do feel more of the road), but I enjoy that car. I think my '07 Accord still has pretty masked steering, sorry tires, and is higher than the Subaru, so I don't see a whole lot of sport in that. I am hoping that shocks/springs/bars will change that a bit.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I would disagree with you about the sportiness of the Legacy. While it does have a "sporty" nature about it, the Mazda6 and Nissan Altima are far sportier then it. The Legacy has heavy steering, lots of body roll and average braking. AWD, in this case, does not translate into great handling. The Legacy GT Spec B does have better handling, however, it carries a price tag of low to mid $30's, limited availability, premium fuel and sub par fuel economy.

    The Legacy was considered by my wife as a replacement for her Impreza, however, the rear seat room is not much bigger and the trunk room is nearly the same as the Impreza. She really wants an Outback, so, when I can find a good deal at the auction, I will grab one.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    What is the point of "sportiness" anyway.Unless you plan to make high speed turns(dangerous) or race it at LeMans(unlikely) what is the point. I would think that economy,comfort and value would override sportiness to most reasonable drivers.
    I have a relatively new (2006.5) KIa Optima EX and it is not considered "sporty" yet it makes turns well, brakes well and is reasonably comfortable.At the same times it retails well under $25K with leather and with all the options that are available(except for a spoiler). It has a 4 cyl engine, and is easy to drive.What more could a person want?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    What is the point of "sportiness" anyway.

    It has a 4 cyl engine, and is easy to drive.What more could a person want?


    It sounds like you'd enjoy a car made by Toyota... or Broyhill. :) Kidding (well, sort-of).

    How about a little bit of fun? The ability to take a twisty road and not have wishy-washy body motions to squelch the fun. Having steering that is well-weighted with some road feel to get an idea of what the car is actually doing.

    Some people just want to get where they're going comfortably. Others want to get there comfortably, but actually enjoy the driving experience. I'm not knocking people who don't care about sportiness, because obviously, the Camry sells in droves and its mainstream models (LE, XLE) don't have a sporty bone in their unibody. That works for a lot of people; it's like driving... only decaf.

    As for me, I like comfort and practicality, while at least having the ability to zip around town or down the river-road (twisty, 40-50 MPH with a speed limit that is probably set a little high at 45 MPH; lots of tight turns with 25MPH yellow "caution" signs on the curves. When I take that road, I know I can take the corner and the suspension and steering won't play dead. :)

    I'm not a dangerous driver, as my spotless driving record and high gas mileage speaks for itself. I do appreciate a car with some athleticism though, even if it doubles as a carpool vehicle during the week. :D
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    "sportiness" is not defined by high speed driving dynamics. The fact is, many us us (hopefully) don't drive our cars like they are a race car. The point is that many of us want out car to respond with virtually no effort for it makes us feel more connected with the road. I, for one, like to get a little excitement out of my drive. Many cars have spongy brakes, floaty suspension, squeal tires in turns, have lots of body roll, and have a soft steering feel. I don't like that. It makes me feel unsafe.

    You can get economy, value AND sportiness in a few vehicles out there. Altima and Mazda6 come to mind. For many, a car that drives like my grandmothers Buick is a waste of money.

    I have a 2005 Mazda6 4cyl mtx with 45,000 miles. It has handling compared to a BMW 3 series, best in class brake performance, reliable, good fuel economy (not class leading, but good enough for me), classic styling (IMO) and still turns heads when I'm driving. I bought it with a Bose Audio system, leather/heated seats, moon roof. I bought is for just over $20,000. That is tremendous value. For me, that is what I want. In my case, this is far superior to a Kia Optima. I'm not saying the Kia Optima is not a bad car, it's just the wrong car for me.
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