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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    edited October 2012
    Agreed. I like the Sonata, but only the turbo with the big fancy wheels. Most of the one's on the road though are of the GLS sort....hubcaps, single exhaust, no fog lights, cloth seats, and the base interior has a little too much hard black plastic.

    However, with the Kia; even the base model LX Optima has alloys (16's), dual exhaust, fog lights, etc. It looks just as good as any other Optima to the casual eye. (but no 17' alloys, dual zone climate control, manumatic sport shift, HID headlights, LED brake lights, leather, etc etc).

    I have started to look at Camry's with the attitude of "why would I WANT to buy this car? Why? The interior is drab, the center stack looks like Emerson and Soundesign had a baby. I just cant stand them for some reason. They are relatively good looking, but all the Camry's I see on the road around here are of the hubcap and beige paint variety. Great car to commit a crime in. "Well, I think it was a tan Toyota something-or-other officer".

    I am gonna go watch "The Walking Dead". And while I am thinking about it, why aren't they all driving Camry's? No way I am staking my life on a 82 Suburban!!!
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    edited October 2012
    I just pulled into my local grocery store and in the parking lot was a new Fusion. I gotta tell is fantastic looking in person.

    It was totally gorgeous in Titanium trim. It is going to be a home run hit, if they price it right for a good overall value. Well, I did some research, and it would cost around 27k to get all of the features that my Optima EX has. So, my car stickered $4,000 less BEFORE haggling down to $20,500. (in all fairness I bought my car on the last day of the dealer just wanted to move another I got a great deal) Now, if the pricing was really close, I would have a very difficult decision on my hands.

    So, it comes down to affordability and personal preference on style. I would not mind being seen in a new Fusion at all, and I am sure that many buyers will feel the same way.

    My hat's off to Ford. If anyone here has test driven one please post your experience.

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,682
    edited October 2012
    2012 Suzuki Kizashi

    For now I'll just have to poach looks at them from here or there whilst driving around the Spokane-Coeur d' Alene area, eh? :blush:

    I'm gonna get one one day! That blows the Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu, Toyota Camry, even my beloved Mitsubishi's Galant outta the water. Sheesh Mitsubishi, do ya think it's time ta update your Galant? Or is the Galant toast? I think Mitsubishi decided to put the kiebash on the Galant because of poor sales but even the outgoing Galant blows the Toyota Camry cleanly out of the water.

    This is what I'm talking about

    This almost looks grey ta me but I think it's that gorgeous silver I've been talkin' about. I don't see how you could want any other car on the planet besides the Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. Simply gorgeous, great running, great performing car automotive dudes and dudettes.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    But the Kizashi is getting a bit long in the tooth. A styling update would help, but so many of the options and features on these other cars are not even available on the Kizashi. I like the size's one of the reasons I bought a Volvo S60.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    edited October 2012
    Well, as predicted the new Fusion with the 1.6 Eco-Boost lost the comparo. It was also $29k. It IS a beautiful car...and it IS available with the 2.0 Eco-Boost with 237 HP.

    I recently saw one in a beautiful bright, deep blue color and was very impressed with it's looks, materials in the interior, and I am sure it drives fantastic.

    The numbers look good on the 1.6 engine...average power (178) and best torque in the comparo (184), but it is only available in one lump at a certain RPM. The transmission has to work hard to keep it on boost...and that kills engines over time.

    There is efficient and there is under-powered...a fine line to walk. I know MPG sells, and I know the EPA and CAFE requirements are tight...but there is NO WAY I would buy a 1.6 in a 3500 pound car. That's just me. :shades:
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    Nice car, but I don't see any advantage of getting one over some of the current models, such as the new downsized Accord (esp. the LX 6MT, a great value) or the Optima LX (also a great value, although no MT), except AWD for people who need that. And I'd go with the Impreza for that, for less money, better FE, and actually more rear leg room (and availability of a hatchback).

    But the main reason I wouldn't touch a Kizashi is a very very small dealer network, and the real risk that Suzuki won't be selling cars in the USA much longer.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    The new 2013 Accord won the test, but not by much. The winning order is as follows:

    1) 2013 Accord
    2) 2013 Fusion
    3) 2013 Altima
    4) 2013 Passat.

    The Fusion, Accord, Passat, and the Altima in the test are all the newest model mid-size sedan's on the USA market.

    My 2012 Optima EX was the best value I could have ever hoped for. I have three elementary school-aged girls and bought the nicest car I could afford, and it has surpassed ALL of my expectations.

    I actually detailed the outgoing 2010 Accord EX for a neighbor yesterday, with similar options as my Optima. I immediately noticed the hard black and grey plastics everywhere, no real aluminum or tasteful wood grain trim. The shift knob looked like it came out of a "94 Grand Am.

    It's black leather seat's however were FAR better than mine, and it drove about the same. The exterior was ok, but no fog lights or dual exhaust with the Accords 2.4, and it was just an older design. I can't wait to drive the new "13.

    Kind regards,
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    edited October 2012
    To each his own. Ford has been engineering its Ecoboost engines to be of the many reasons they cost more than their non-ecoboosted choices. The hp and torque of the 1.6 are easily competitive with anything in this comparo list, and along with the transmission they use, it tends to stay a good torque curve. Don't like it? The Honda or any of the others are worthy alternatives.

    Interesting in the comparo was the use of the 1.6. The that is Ford's step-up engine from the 2.5 liter. All the other cars seemed to be fielded with their base engines. I suspect the Fusion may not have come in as high as second if the 2.5 model had been tested.

    Oops...I think I was referencing another test in Motor Trend, where the Passat came in first, then Accord, then Fusion, then Altima, followed by Camry and Malibu.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    Thats ok. The Passat came in first in my magazine just 45 days ago too. Funny how it was last this time. Funny as in odd.

    We will just have to see if the 1.6 holds up in real use. I very, very much like the Fusion. I wanted my favorite magazine to test the 2.0 in a comparo.

    It is more expensive because it the engine is made in England and is shipped here for installation in Dearborn, Michigan.

    The 2.5 is assembled in Mexico. Not sure where the 2.0 is built.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,669
    It's more expensive because it gets slightly better fuel economy and it's not the base engine. It's not about cost - it's about marketing.

    There are no bad cars in this segment. Just varying degrees of good. The new Accord and Fusion appear to be just slightly above the rest overall but individually you could make a good case for any of them. Yes - even the Camry.

    I think Fusion will still offer the most powertrain options with 1.6, 1.6 autostart/stop, 1.6 manual, 2.0, 2.0 AWD, 2.0 Hybrid and 2.0 PIH.

    I'm likely ordering a 2013 Fusion Hybrid Titanium. 47 mpg is hard to pass up.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    edited October 2012
    Agreed. 47mpg is awesome.

    I have had so many problems with cars in the past...stranded on the road in many, that I am gun shy of anything that is limited production, turbocharged, or GT versions. My 87 Z24 with unrepairable cracked transmission and alternators that died monthly. 1994 - Yamaha engine melted down in my SHO. 96 Passat TDI that had to be shut off and on every 5 miles to get the turbo to work.

    All sales people had said things like "bullet proof" and "will never leave you stranded". All did. So, now I buy cars more likely to make it 150k without a major problem, and with the most available and cheapest parts. All the while still trying to buy something that isn't a bread-box on wheels.

    I understand why millions buy Corolla's and Camry's. They are a safe bet for reliability and are serene places to sit and drive. I am amused the adding an "S" on the back of everything increases sales. I am also amused that every 75% of Toyota Corolla's I see on the road (the ones with the "S" usually) are missing at least one hubcap. Does the S stand for stolen?

    No. With me it seems the S stands for sub-standard, stranded, sucker, and stupid.

    I am still holding out that I can drive a nice looking car that isn't a Camry or Accord or a Corolla out of fear of breakdowns.

    However, the EX on the back of my Kia may yet be EX-ploded or EX-pensive to repair. I hope not. Not this time.

    I do a lot of research now before I buy now. The rest is how I treat the car, and that the welding robot wasn't off-line when my car sailed down the assembly line. But it doesn't have an there is hope.

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    edited October 2012
    You are talking about 1980s/1990s cars that had special engines. Car companies don't put out hardware that is not designed to last the long haul. They can't afford to in this competitive environment. Even VW with its questionable quality reputation had engineered their TDIs to be much more problem-free than their gassers by the early 2000s. My 2003 TDI is still going strong (with its new owner), and both a 2002 TDI and a 2005 TDI in my extended family have gone beyond 200K with only routine maintenance. Soon enough you will not have a choice. Contrary to what Allen said, the 1.6 and 2.0 Ecoboosts do cost more right now because they have the direct injection/turbo technology and equipment not present yet on some competitors' engines. Some components have been re-engineered for the added stress, so that the engine will last similarly to a non-Ecoboost 2.5 liter. However, soon enough most engines will be DI turbos, because with tightening MPG regulations, it is one way to get good mileage and the torque people want, without resorting to diesels, or the even more expensive hybrids and electrics.

    There has never been a time when the mid-size car buyer had so many excellent choices. Buy what you like, don't drive the piss out of it all the time, do the routine maintenance suggested, and any of these cars will give you more satisfactory service than you have had with your previous rides.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    See, my Optima's (and the Sonata's) 2.4 engine is DI, non-turbo, and the car weighs in at 3240. 200 hp and 186 lb-ft without all the turbo gear.

    It is a blast to drive, and without jamming my foot to the floor or coming near redline. I have no problem with modern.

    Lastly In the Car & Driver comparo, the Fusion BROKE DOWN. It was flashing warning lights....of the check engine sort. They also said the tranny was very busy, trying desperately to keep on boost.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    "DA DA DA Don Da da don da da....da da da daaa da dun don da da..."

    (The evil empire music played as Darth Vader walks into the control room of his gigantic ship's bridge/CIC. (or when Vader enter's any scene where evil is to be done). lmao.

    I imagine the same music runs in customers heads as they are marched into the finance department with not so perfect credit. "Sir, the force may be with you, but not with your credit. ...and your trade is an X-wing what? It says here o your car fax report that it was crashed in a swamp and has some water damage. and because of that, all you have is a salvage title Luke.
    Well, I can put you in a Versa! How about that? lol.
  • fury63fury63 Posts: 18
    I bought a Titanium last week after looking at the new Accord and the LaCrosse. Coming from a Maxima SV, I never thought I'd be excited about a Fusion. But I have to say it delivers. The excellent ride and quiet interior along with the Sync technology and the overall look are what hooked me. I have about 600 miles on it. For me, it is a very comfortable ride in both city and highway driving. You have to baby it to get good mpg in stop-n-good. Highway is between 28-30. Hopefully it will get better. My kids love the ambient lighting and the stereo rocks. So far I'm pleased with it.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    Which engine is in it? 2.5? 1.6? 2.0? Please tell us all about it. Thanks!!!

    Welcome also!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,669
    Titaniums only come with the 2.0L.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    Good to know that. Thanks. How does it drive? How was your dealer experience? What do you like about it? Where is the sweet spot in the power delivery?
  • fury63fury63 Posts: 18
    It's a very well done vehicle. I do mostly highway driving and it seems to have to have the merge/passing power. I have to get used to a conventional transmission as opposed to the CVT on the Max - and the turbo as you push it hard. As I mentioned, it's a very smooth and quiet ride. You have to test drive one yourself. The Sync system isn't perfect but I knew that going in. Bluetooth streaming is hit/miss with my iPhone 4S but it works well tethered to USB. I really like the voice command capability. My only gripe is it can be a bit slow to respond (changing from XM to a certain FM station for instance). I have only the base Titanium package and the sunroof so I can't comment on the other features. The seats wrap around you and feel very secure. Ford did a good job of managing ride quality with handling as I feel it's pretty responsive. It's about the same size interior/exterior as my Maxima with a longer wheelbase. Good back seat room. It's a very easy car to drive. I have to enjoy the fact I'm the only one around here with one now because I'm pretty sure Ford will sell the heck out of these.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    Now that was a review! :shades:

    I forgot the Max had a CVT. I need to drive a CVT in a nice car like the MAX so I can throw off the chains of oppression as I stop thinking of a Subaru Justy every time I hear "CVT".

    The switch must be something to get used to. I like the Max. Ever since they have made it it was the original (Japanese) 4DSC. Back in 96 190 HP was hot stuff and then the 2000 with 222 HP was on tap for delivery. Great addition to the genuine sport sedan.
  • fury63fury63 Posts: 18
    I think Nissan did a great job on their CVT but in the end it's a CVT and some people can't get past that. You can always put it in sport mode for that simulated shift. I enjoyed driving the Max; just wanted something different. Unfortunately for the Max their MPGs are still not that great but that's what the Altima is for I guess.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    The Altima is Nissan's Accamalibusion. An amalgam of current mid-size sedan style, MPG, and design. I am already bored with it.

    Car and Driver said it looks like a Camry that was stung by bees. Lol.
  • the 2013 Suzuki Kizashi on here, I remain mostly impressed with the:

    Suzuki Kizashi...


    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    I also am a fan of the Kizashi. A very well built car that is prime for freshening. Suzuki has an opportunity to be the newest sedan on the block since all the major players have been designed, redesigned, or freshened in the past year or so. Suzuki seems to be holding back on committing to the mid-size sedan fight. I am curious to see what they do as a company in the near future.

    The mid-size sedan is THE most difficult car to build for the masses. It has to be all things to all people...and Suzuki seems to not want to play that game.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,954
    The Mazda6 is the next new one out of the gate and should be at dealers very early in 2013. The Kizashi is old news that never caught on. The Suzuki dealer right next to my Mazda dealer closed up about a year after the Kizashi came out. They needed a conventional transmission and a V6 or turbo 4. They were touting it as a cheap alternative to an Audi but it didn't have the HP to really compete in that sports arena. Suzuki will probably slip quietly away into the night(from the USA) much like Izuzu did. My understanding is that they do well in Japan and the rest of Asia but just can't seem to make great inroads in the US and I think Europe as well. I don't even hear that much about their motorcycles much anymore. I know their boat motorss are that desired either.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    edited October 2012
    The Kizashi has very few fans but some of them are quite loyal. Most of them would be impressed if they drove the 2013 competitive models, and could see where the Kizashi needs updating. I like the size of the Kizashi, but it has fallen behind on styling, equipment, power choices, and quietness.

    The 2014 Mazda6, out in January, looks to be a winner.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,193
    I was being polite. If you read between the lines I said this about the Kizashi:

    A) It needed updating badly. (boring)
    B) Their heart isn't in it. (boring)
    C) They nibbled some market share from the big boys as an alternative too many. (boring)
    D) Didn't Suzuki make crappy little 4x4's (Samurai) that enjoyed a cult following? Why don't they do that again?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    For full disclosure - my car history has been:

    1996 Accord: My first car. Cramped for my 6'4" frame, and not particularly peppy (130hp) but it had a personality. I miss that car.

    2006 Accord: Great to drive. Had some road noise, felt more powerful than it was.

    Currently have a 2009 Sonata GLS V6: Quiet, smooth riding, lots of power with good MPG (averaging 29-30mpg on my highway commute), absolutely no fun to drive around a bend.

    The 2013 Accord was still disapppointingly noisy compared to my quiet Hyundai. I'm not sure I could go back to that level of road noise every day after commuting 100 miles a day in my quiet coffin of a car, the Sonata. However, the engine felt good under my foot, but made a noise that was not pleasant like previous Honda fours. Part of DI, I suppose.

    The CVT didn't feel that different from an automatic. It had obvious "shift" points. When I gunned it to merge, it had definite "shifts" in ratio. Frankly, I liked the feel of the 2012 Altima I drove, and how it smoothly ramped up the revs, and dropped them back. The Accord didn't feel as "rubber-bandy" I suppose, but it wasn't nearly as smooth as the Altima was, either. Overall, not a deal maker or breaker for me. It was good enough.

    The interior had loads of space. My Sonata is a "Large Car" by EPA standards, with a moonroof, and the Accord felt at least as spacious. No problems there. My seat in my Hyundai offered more travel/front legroom for me, but not by much. The Honda offered comfy seating and rear vents, a nice touch.

    In the end, these were the items I focused on; powertrain, space, and noise levels. While the Honda was definitely more spry than my current Sonata, nothing about it made me pine for a new car right now. I'm content with what I have (and no car payment).

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,682
    edited October 2012
    badly...already? Huh? No way! I don't even have to re-test drive the car to know that it hasn't. Oh well, if nobody buys one that will mean all the more Kizashi's left for me. Mine-mine-mine!

    All mine.

    Hurry...catch a glimpse of it before it becomes a little red X

    Look at that car, gentlemen. Simply the coolest midsize car on the market. And it is the smallest midsize car as well. This car looks mah-vel-ous in silver. Best color for the Kizashi.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,954
    I got your message but was just adding to it. However, don't really equate boring with needing an update or their heart isn't in it. Suzuki is huge in Japan and Asia, one of the best selling brands there. They just can't figure out the US market very well.
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