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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • Actually/technically, Mazda just joined the fullsize class!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Where have you been?

    Surfing the Internet reading about the Fusion/Mazda6 relationship. The Mazda6 was significantly smaller than a typical midsize, so I'm not sure it really counts as a midsize (same with the Subie Legacy, come to think of it). Ford took that gen Mazda6 and heavily revised the platform, including lengthening and widening it, to make the Ford Fusion (also added AWD, which was not available on the 6). Mazda in turn used THAT platform to make the NA market Mazda6 with Mazda-tuned suspension and tranny (and probably steering rack but I'm not sure). Still can't get AWD or Sync on the 6 though, which kinda sucks, but what can one do?

    It's not blatant badge-engineering like Cobalt/G5 (or Fusion/Milan, come to think of it) but there's definitely a very close relationship between the two vehicles.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Oh my god is Toyota trying to pass off the Prius as a midsize just to be a pain? The 0.6 is just there so they can say that. All Ford has to do is say they have the highest MPG in a midsize sedan and Toyota will just have to shut up...Prius is a hatchback and not a sedan. :shades: Then again, they could be specific, showing off the greater interior volume, horsepower, AND MPG than competing hybrid sedans (asterisk indicating that the competition is the TCH, NAH, and Chevy Malibu pseudo-hybrid)

    Personally, I'd prefer to see the pistols at noon
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    The Mazda6 was significantly smaller than a typical midsize, so I'm not sure it really counts as a midsize (same with the Subie Legacy, come to think of it).

    The 1st-gen 6 counts as a midsize in this forum, and about 99% of all other automotive publications, as well as the EPA classification system.

    It's a midsize. Always has been, probably always will be.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Mazda in turn used THAT platform to make the NA market Mazda6

    Not to get nit picky, but, that's not true. Again, I visited Auto Alliance International in Flat Rock, MI, and had an extensive lesson about the Mazda6 and learned some valuable information from people on the Mazda6 project and engineer insight.

    there's definitely a very close relationship between the two vehicles.

    They are more like third cousins now.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Did they not use Ford's CD3 platform? Or did they modify their existing mazda6 platform? Or something else?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    They modified the existing platform.

    CD3 is what Ford renamed it in reference to their "global" identity. I learned that the platform was not jointly developed, but, rather developed by Mazda alone. Ford was allowed to just use it and modify it. Ford essentially modified a complete Mazda6 and gave the world the Fusion. This saved Ford $10 billion. Yes, $10 billion. Since Ford uses this platform in several vehicles, Ford made out very well.

    The 06-09 Fusion and 03-08 Mazda6 were so very very close. The power plants were identical and transmissions were different. In fact, the dash board architecture were identical. HVAC vents were in the same place. The top center of the dash was a storage compartment. If you were to open up the hood of both I4 and V6 models, you could not tell the difference between the two. Everything was in the same exact place. Where the differences came in were suspension components, steering system, braking system and enhanced frame rigidity points. The Mazda was tuned for performance and the Fusion was tuned for a more forgiving ride.

    What we see now with the 2010 Fusion and 2009 Mazda6 is that they have grown apart. The Mazda6 went the route of improving their award winning vehicle by loading it with technology (keyless ignition, BSMS, Bluetooth phone and audio, Xenon HID lights etc...), larger in size, competitive with fuel economy and still be the best mannered on the road.

    The Fusion has really grown into it's own and really separated it's self from the Mazda. We see it has a more aggressive and sporty design. It offers Sync and other updated technology. It offers 6-speed trannys in every model (which helps it's FE). Interior layout is nothing like the Mazda6 anymore. And Ford added a wonderful Hybrid engine and updated 3.0L (it's about time, too!!)

    As far as I know, the Mazda designed 2.5L and Ford designed V6 (3.5L for Ford and the Mazda built and tuned 3.7L) and the basic platform (which is not a big part of the car), there is not much of a similarity anymore. I'm sure there are some parts that they use the same supplier for, like various electrical components etc...

    We all know that Ford is a little late to the party, however, they are here and they are offering one hell of a car. It's irrevelant how long they took to get here. They are here, and lets hope they are here to stay.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,452
    the kids drive it, so that is their problem. of course, i don't believe that for a second. :surprise:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,452
    i have a fusion and you can see the bones of the mazda6. all you have to do is look at the plastic cover in the chassis side where the bottom of the door meets the carpet.
    then it drops down another level towards the center of the car.
    makes for a good side impact area.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    And the winner is......Fusion! 23 city, 34 highway. That's an improvement of 3 mpg city and 6 mpg highway (yes, 6!) while also adding more power over the 2009 2.3L I4. Best in class.

    I guess at Ford Fuel Economy is now Job 1!
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    Here:

    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=29670

    And here are the tops of the class:

    Tops of the class:
    2010 Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan 6-spd auto - 23/34

    2009 Chevy Malibu/Pontiac G6/Saturn Aura 6-spd auto - 22/33
    2009 Nissan Altima 6-spd manual - 23/32

    2009 Hyundai Sonata/Kia Optima 5-spd auto - 22/32
    2009 Kia Optima 5-spd manual - 22/32
    2009 Nissan Altima CVT - 23/31


    Ironic no Toyota/Honda on that list (until you go further down).
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Toyota's got the same arrogant gene GM does, and will come up with a reason why they actually have best in class mileage (say comparing the Camry Hybrid trim to Ford's I4 or V6). GM's own arrogant gene will lead it to create a stripper XFE Malibu with no options, and optional rear seat, and the weight savings will give it 34.1 MPG with a 6 speed manual, thereby allowing GM to claim they have class-leading fuel economy.

    Dunno about Honda, but they're dangerous and will attempt to top Ford.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    This is developing into a major pissing contest. I noticed how Ford compared the 2.0L engine on the Focus to the 2.4L engine (not 1.8L) on the Corolla in its press release, for example. Since Ford is not above comparing apples to oranges, I can envision other automakers taking Ford to task for claiming the highest FE in a mid-sized sedan. One of the mid-sized (aka "family") sedans in the EPA's group is the Elantra--with 25/33 ratings and 28 overall. The overall rating for the Fusion wasn't mentioned, but it's possible it's no better than 28 and could be less. Also Elantra's city mpg tops Fusion's. So if Hyundai was in the mood, they could pick on Ford for their claim of top fuel economy on a (non-hybrid) mid-sized sedan.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Isn't the Fusion the smallest car in this group? Doesn't it have the least interior room? Shouldn't it have the best fuel economy?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    23/34 mpg is an impressive improvement. This equals the 23 mpg city that was the 2007 rating with the 2.3 engine and the old, much easier EPA test. The Hwy figure is 3 mpg better than the 2007, despite the tougher test.

    This is also 2 mpg city and 4 mpg highway better than the Mazda6 gets from the same engine.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    The Fusion/Milan is pretty close in size to others in this group, e.g. Altima, Aura, Camry, Malibu, Optima, Sonata. The Accord and Mazda6 are a bit bigger, but that seems to be the trend for sedans--make 'em bigger with each generation. But Ford has the Taurus/Sable for true full-sized cars, so they really don't need a bigger Fusion/Milan, whereas Honda and Mazda have to make their cars fit a broader demographic since they don't offer a true full-sized car.

    Technically, the Elantra and Prius (along with the Spectra) are the smallest cars in the EPA's mid-sized or "family car" class. And guess what? They (Prius and Elantra) get the highest fuel economy in the class (well, Prius for sure for hybrids and Elantra for non-hybrids in the city and maybe overall). No big surprise there--they are considerably smaller, lighter, and lower-powered than the rest of the class. Which makes the EPA results on the 2010 Fulan even more impressive.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Dunno about Honda, but they're dangerous and will attempt to top Ford.

    They're dangerous because... they'll try and remain competetive? Is Honda the "bad guy" to you? Maybe not, but your wording makes it sound that way.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    They should be considered dangerous to Ford because they have the capability to be VERY competitive should they choose to. Nissan too, come to think of it. In that sense, as competition, they ARE dangerous.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    "The Fusion/Milan is pretty close in size to others in this group, e.g. Altima, Aura, Camry, Malibu, Optima, Sonata. The Accord and Mazda6 are a bit bigger, but that seems to be the trend for sedans--make 'em bigger with each generation. But Ford has the Taurus/Sable for true full-sized cars, so they really don't need a bigger Fusion/Milan, whereas Honda and Mazda have to make their cars fit a broader demographic since they don't offer a true full-sized car".

    The Fusion/Milan being undersized is not the point. The point is, it is smaller, so it should get better mileage than an Accord or 6. If you are giving up interior space, shouldn't you be rewarded, with better mileage?
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