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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    Nobody drives 100% highway either. If you want max fuel economy drive 60. If you don't care drive faster. At least you have a choice.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    It will get slightly better around 5K miles but the EPA rating is 22/33 so that's not too bad with a heavy right foot.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Always appreciate real world experiences. Thanks for posting.

    I know this info is probably out there, but for some reason I am always confused as to which engine comes in the Titanium. Not sure where/why it confuses me..I think is because when I last checked I have gotten conflicting results. I 'think' it comes only with the 2.0? (ecoboost) ..why they just don't call the turbos a turbo still mystifies me..marketing geniuses always at work trying to justify their presence behind a desk, is my first guess..
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    It's the 2.0L Ecoboost. The reason Ecoboost was created was to provide V8 power with V6 fuel economy (3.5L). Ford still positions the Ecoboost engines as providing the same power as a larger naturally aspirated engine with better fuel economy. In this case it's replacing the 3.0L and 3.5L engines. And it just sounds better than "turbo" which has some negative connotations for some people.
  • How do you put 4,000 miles on a car in only two months? At that rate, your warranty will expire in less than two and a half years! Sounds like you're driving it way too much to me!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    This is completely possible if one travels for their job, or lives far from work. When I lived in the St. Louis area, I put 1500-1700 miles on my vehicle every month, almost exclusively to/from work travel. Not much a person can do about that, except buy a vehicle that they enjoy spending time in!

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  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Yes, some people have long commutes, or jobs that require more driving than most. 24,000 miles in a year is not the norm but is not that unusual. Highway mileage is not hard on a car, so high mileage, newer vehicles generally remain reliable. If the bugs can't be worked out in 2.5 years of warranty, then maybe you have a lemon on your hands.
  • Still seems awfully excessive to me. I doubt even a delivery driver puts 2,000 miles a month on a car! If my job was that far from my home, I'd move! What are you gonna do if your car breaks down? Sorry boss, I can't drive like a taxi cab anymore, my car has a problem! If you're gonna drive that much just for work, then you might as well be a taxi cab driver!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,741
    I know people who drive 120 miles per day RT which equates to 30K/yr. Happens more often than you think.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,039
    Don't say what you would do until you walk in somebody else's shoes. It's easy to say you'd do this or that but maybe there are circumstances that you just plainly have not considered. I have a son in law that has to drive his personal vehicle for wor. He covers a very large metro sales area and easily puts 24k miles on a year. He would love to not have to drive so much but that is his job and in his line of work it's a good job with a lot of flexibility and great pay/benefits. But, the downside is driving a lot. And no he is not a taxi driver.
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,248
    My sister lives where she wants to - in a smaller town where the quality of life matches her desires. She works on the far side of a larger city. So, 63 miles each way is her commute. 126 miles/day, 630 miles/week. That's over 30K/year after subtracting for a 2 week vacation. And add a few more miles for recreational driving and errands.

    She recently bought a '13 Elantra with stick shift. She's getting 41-45MPG and is saving about $40 a week in gas over her last car, an '04 Sonata MT that she retired with 196K on the odo.

    I live in the Chicago suburbs and while I take a commuter train into the city, there are others who drive it. From my 'burb to downtown is about 40 miles each way.

    Long commutes are a fact of life for lots of people.
  • fury63fury63 Posts: 18
    edited December 2012
    Actually I travel for work and cover a large geographic territory. I prefer being in a car versus stuck in a plane! You gotta do what you gotta do. ;) I do have a home office and no commute so things do balance out.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    edited December 2012
    a few short quotes from the CU review:

    "....The new Accord is roomy, nice to drive, well equipped, and very fuel efficient.

    Its 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine, when matched with the smooth continuously variable transmission, squeezes out an excellent 30 mpg overall and 40 on the highway. That’s as good as a tiny Honda Fit and better than most compact cars. The 3.5-liter  V6 is super-smooth and quite powerful, snapping off a 6.3-second 0-to-60 mph time that is competitive with some sports cars. And its 26 mpg overall is among the best in its class.

    Inside, you are treated to one of the best driving positions available, comfortable seats, and terrific visibility. All Accords have a standard backup camera, rare among family sedans. Uplevel models include advanced safety features seldom found in this category, including forward-collision and lane-departure warning systems, and Honda’s new Lane Watch blind-spot camera system....

    In the final tally, the four-cylinder Accord jumped 10 points in our Ratings to take over the top spot among entry-level sedans...

    Based on its history, we expect above-average reliability for the Accord.

    The Accord is one of the more agile family sedans, with subdued body lean and decent steering feedback....

    Honda has finally solved the Accord’s longtime problem with road noise; road and wind noise are nicely muted....

    The CVT is smooth, quick, and unobtrusive, marking a new benchmark for that type of transmission. You’d be hard pressed to tell that it isn’t a conventional automatic, high praise indeed....

    Drivers will find plenty of space in the cabin. The cloth front seats are wide and supportive, although the LX model lacks power seats and lumbar adjustment. The powered leather seats provide better support and more adjustments and have two-position seat memory, a unique feature in this class. The rear has a supportive bench that’s comfortable for two adults but tight for three.

    Fit and finish is generally very good....

    The Accord’s gauges are a model of clarity, and most controls are easy to use....

    All Accords come with standard dual-zone automatic climate control, a nice touch....

    The trunk is large and nicely trimmed....
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,326
    Absolutely. The Altima has been and still is a mid-pack car. It has to meet certain guidelines and goals, and all those goals are achieved by their engineers. It just can't get to the front of the pack for some reason. It's a nice car. Reliable and quick. I just don't WANT one.

    Someone else said something here that is totally true. All of the mid-size sedans are great cars. You really can't go wrong to a certain extent.

    If they were not such good machines we wouldn't all be here talking about them, and arguing for our choice.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    You really can't go wrong to a certain extent.

    I agree with that, although IMO there's a few mid-sizers that fall very quickly to the back of the pack, not close to being competitive with the others: 200/Avenger for sure, and possibly the new Malibu. But for the others... really I think it's a question of personal taste, and price.

    Case in point: a month ago I jumped at the chance to trade in a 2007 Sonata GLS with a lot of body damage, no warranty left, and new rubber needed in a year or so for a 2013 Sonata GLS with every option except iPod cable for nothing out of pocket and $48 a month for 35 months. It was a surprise for my wife, and she loves it... calls it the Enterprise because of its space-age styling and dash. And I enjoy driving it too, when I get the chance. Lots of power, economical, roomy, smooth and quiet ride, nice controls and displays, lots of creature comforts (heated seats, power seat, Bluetooth, BlueLink, XM radio etc. etc.). Full warranty including no-charge wheel/tire/glass repairs and paintless dent removal (Thanksgiving special). And great looking I think in ruby red and black/tan interior. Yet it's not even considered in the top 4 or 5 mid-sized family sedans, and when the new Mazda6 hits showrooms the Sonata will drop further relative to the competition. But it's a very enjoyable car, and hard to beat for the money.

    You know what they say: happy wife, happy life. :)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    backy:

    Sounds like an awesome deal on a really good car. Congrats!

    And my guess is that the Sonata is maybe in the top 3 or so of midsize cars.

    Some (including me) would say the new Accord seems to be in first for now.

    But which car is in second is tough to say. As you say, the 200 and Malibu are at the bottom. And the Camry has not been highly rated in any test I've seen lately, even though they sell like crazy.

    Just from the comparison tests I've read, it seems kinda like a 3-way tie for 2nd place between the Altima, Sonata, and Optima. Maybe the Passat is in there too.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,472
    I won't be buying anything new for a long time, and most likely it won't be a largeish 4 door like this, but if I were to be in that market, the Accord would once again be high on the list.

    I need to swing by the Honda dealer one of these days to sit in a new Accord and Civic.

    actually, 2013 is sneaking up on me, and the Philly auto show is in mid-January. So get to see everything then.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Assuming your 2007 was a 4 cyl stick shift, how does the MPG compare? Is the 2013 broken in yet?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    Why would you think my wife's 2007 Sonata was a stick shift? Any idea how many of those were sold in the USA? Not many. One thing you couldn't know is that sticks don't agree with my wife. :P

    Since we've only had the 2013 for 4 weeks and less than 500 miles, I'm sure it's not broken in. And the weather has been seasonable, meaning cold (mostly 20s to 30s). And all city driving so far. So, kinda early to be drawing generalizations about FE, but what I've seen so far is that my wife gets around 20 mpg the way she drives it, which is very short trips, lots of idling, heavy foot on the gas. That's maybe 5-10% better than she was getting on the old car in similar conditions. When the car was brand-new, I got to drive it most of the time for several days and I was getting 25-26 mpg around town, still all short trips (less than 7-8 miles). That was again maybe 5-10% better than the 2007. Given it's a brand-new car with 198 hp vs. 162, not too bad I think. I can't wait to take it on a trip of some distance to see how it does on the highway. Our 2007 was getting 32-33 tops on the highway; I expect to see an improvement with the new car.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    edited December 2012
    Camry and Prius V get Poor ratings in small offset crash test. This is a common type of crash.

    The only bestselling midsize sedan to earn a Good rating was the Accord.

    Video and story at link:

    http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr122012.html

    "....In the Camry, the force of the impact shoved the front wheel back into the footwell, bending the windshield pillar and pushing the parking brake pedal and the left outer edge of the instrument panel rearward into the driver's survival space. Likewise, there was significant intrusion in the Prius v, along with high forces on the dummy's legs and feet. The Prius v is the only car in the midsize test group to earn a poor rating for hip and thigh protection.

    The Camry's driver airbag and side curtain airbag deployed, but the steering wheel moved so far to the right that the dummy's head made only minimal contact with the front airbag. The side curtain airbag didn't extend far enough forward to help prevent the dummy's head from hitting the instrument panel. In the Prius v, the side curtain airbag deployed too late in the crash to offer protection.

    "Toyota engineers have a lot of work to do to match the performance of their competitors," Lund says....

    The Accord sedan shows how safety belts and airbags work together to provide exemplary protection. The dummy stayed engaged with the Accord's front airbag, and the steering wheel remained relatively stable because there was only moderate intrusion into the occupant compartment. That meant that the driver airbag was in the right position to cushion the dummy's head and chest. The side curtain airbag extended far enough forward to prevent the dummy's head from hitting interior components...."
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    IIHS Ratings
    Rated good:
    -- Honda Accord, four-door
    -- Suzuki Kizashi

    Rated acceptable:
    -- Ford Fusion
    -- Honda Accord, two-door
    -- Kia Optima
    -- Nissan Altima, four-door
    -- Nissan Maxima
    -- Subaru Legacy
    -- Subaru Outback
    -- Dodge Avenger
    -- Chrysler 200, four-door
    -- Mazda 6
    -- Volkswagen Passat

    Rated marginal:
    -- Hyundai Sonata
    -- Chevrolet Malibu
    -- Volkswagen Jetta sedan

    Rated poor:
    -- Toyota Camry
    -- Toyota Prius v

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20121220/OEM11/121219849#ixzz2Fa8G06s7
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    Better hurry on those Kizashis... they're going-going-gone! But at a great price... I see AWD models advertised for around $16k in my area. Great deal... if you don't mind looking high and low for service and parts.

    As for the test... many of these cars were designed before the latest IIHS test was implemented. So not doing well is understandable. But the Malibu is a recent redesign, as is the Camry. So their performance is puzzling.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,326
    I see on the list that the Kia Optima crash result is acceptable, while the Sonata is marginal.

    Since these cars' share their platform I find the results puzzling.

    I like the new Accord, but I hate that the 2.4 EX doesn't have dual exhaust. There is an empty hole in the left side of the bumper. I hate that. It looks like someone forgot to bolt on the left side.

    I know it's silly, but little things like that keep me happy that I bought the Optima.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    cski: There's the Accord Sport model if you want dual exhaust. But I think the Accord looks very good in any trim.

    The thing that would drive me mad about the Optima are the giant blind spots in that car because of the huge rear roof pillars. Not good imho. The Accord, almost alone among all midsize sedans, has excellent visibility all around.

    But everyone gets to make their own choices, and the Optima is clearly a very good car except for those pesky blind spots.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    edited December 2012
    Several auto makers made sudden changes to pass this test. From Cars.com:

    http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2012/12/honda-shines-toyota-falls-in-latest-i- - ihs-crash-tests.html

    "Honda Shines, Toyota Falls in Latest IIHS Crash Tests

    ....IIHS noted the Ford Fusion, Nissan Altima, Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Volkswagen Passat and Volkswagen Jetta underwent running changes within the 2013 model year to various areas — like airbag modules and structural elements — to earn their Acceptable scores (or Marginal, in the Jetta's case). So if you're shopping any of them, check the driver's doorjamb for a sticker that has, among other certifications, the month your car was built. You'll want to ensure it came after the month during which the change was made:

    Subaru Legacy or Outback after August 2012
    Volkswagen Jetta or Passat after October 2012
    Nissan Altimas after November 2012
    Ford Fusions after December 2012

    Yes, you read that right. The Fusion earned a respectable score, but IIHS spokesman Russ Rader confirmed it won't apply until January-built cars. Automakers were "notified of what the test parameters are, and some that are able to, elect to make changes," Rader told Cars.com. "We presume that the changes that were made improve the vehicle's performance."
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    It's a new test, but an important one. Toyota was designing to the previous group of tests, which the Camry passed. I hope they get going on reinforcing the Camry structure to make it competitive.

    It just goes to show what reputation for reliability, quality and resale can do for a brand. The Camry is down toward the bottom of the pack in terms of design, interior materials, handling, 4 cylinder power, etc., but it remains the top seller. Most people don't know much about cars, and often if they have a satisfying experience with a brand, they buy it again. Suzuki was very poorly managed here in the US. The Kizashi was a great car, but that did not help Suzuki at all. On the other hand, VW and Nissan have set about building better reputations and sales for Passat and Altima, and are slowly succeeding. Sonata and Optima really built momentum with great designs and time. Knocking Accord and Camry out of first place, however, will still take years, if it happens.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    "Knocking Accord and Camry out of first place, however, will still take years, if it happens."

    ???

    The Camry might be heading for a fall, given its poor results in almost every test. But the Accord? I think it might even have a chance at #1 for 2013. This new test might make the Camry unacceptable to many smart shoppers. Even with big rebates the Camry may not sell quite like it used to....
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,326
    edited December 2012
    Totally agree. I hate the blind spots on my Optima. There is only so long you can look behind you too; on a crowded highway going to work at 6am in the dark.

    The new Accord offers a blind spot camera on ALL models. I suspect this safety feature will become standard on almost all vehicle's by the end of 2014. Honda really did a great job on the new Accord. It is really good looking, swift and solidly built. I think they build it out of "lightweightium" or something (as described in a new magazine article).

    I wish I had the camera and a passenger seat with a height adjustment as standard equipment. I would certainly want that over power folding mirrors.

    Oh, and all the buttons on my rear view mirror are totally undecipherable and pretty useless when living in a condo/apt/townhouse/etc.

    As buttons go; nothing is worse than the dash on my mother-in-laws 2010 Nissan Quest. It has like 2000 buttons, all with (ancient Egyptian inspired??) picto-grams.

    What does the snake and the cat-headed warrior button do? Anyone?

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    edited December 2012
    I hope KIA and others follow Honda's lead and design cars with thinner pillars made of high grade steel, and also adopt the camera stuff.

    In terms of the Optima doing better than the Sonata in the crash test, I have a possible guess on that. As you know, for many years KIA and Hyundai were separate, competing companies. When KIA suffered a sudden financial crisis of some kind (which I don't understand or know about) the Korean gov't pressured Hyundai into buying KIA so that it wouldn't go under. But they are, to a significant degree, still separate companies.

    In other words, although KIA adopted the basic Hyundai Sonata engineering in developing the Sonata platform, it's possible that KIA engineers decided to strengthen the structure at a few key points. I don't know if that's what happened, but my guess is that it's possible. Look at that article about how some car companies suddenly upgraded some components on their cars for this test in just a few months. Maybe KIA did that too, long before the test?

    It could also be just the random variations of the test....
  • sdcal2sdcal2 Posts: 12
    Does anyone know yet how the 2013 fusion did? I see on my daughters new fusion it has air bags in the knee area?
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