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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,209
    Even though the Sonata got all the good press when it came out in 2011, the Optima just quietly started winning people over, including me. The shape is very nice. to me it looks like a Korean Audi. (Kia hired away an Audi designer who penned the car).

    Car and Driver said in a 5 sedan comparo "we prefer our Sonata in Optima clothing". Most magazines loved the materials in the cabin (EX with leather) and the wide power band that the 2.4 delivers. Also, it has 200 HP and most competitors are at 170-189.

    The thing about Chevy is that the car is nice and all, but it is SOOOO Rent-a-Car looking that nobody I know WANTS one. It's just not a cool car. Its for 65 year old men that still value American-Pie-Chevrolet. I gave GM a try in the early 90's and all I can think of is all the recalls on my car and how much time it spent in the shop. (Lumina 3.4L 24v V6) :lemon: Awful car.

    You guys "feel me" on this? Did any of you own a Beretta GT? Remember the Corsica? Cavalier Z24? GM HAS come a long way since then. They ARE trying and that's good news.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited January 2013
    Maybe the 65 year olds are buying it purely for the OEM standard stock audio system..which BLOWS anything Korean outta the water. (Kia..apparently even the Hyundai's have slightly better sound) Been reading a lot lately of Kia's...the Rio, Accent and Optima and an unfortunate theme was revealed. A very universal lack of satisfaction with their sound systems. When I say "universal", perhaps I used the word almost too loosely..there were the very odd customers who said it was just fine. But we also know that there are people out there who will listen to their radio not totally on frequency, so...enough said on that one..

    I sat in a brand new Malibu in the showroom in 2011. Trim level was under leather, but seat had full power. I simply couldn't believe how BAD it was! My old GF's 92 Grand Am's seat (3.3l V6..killer..for the time/money stock OEM stereo) was nothing to write home about, although looked comfy, but as memory serves, it was better than that 19 year newer Malibu's perch. No excuse in my opinion. Hence the low sales numbers, or at least that and numerous other reasons..hence the low sales numbers. It is obvious that GM's idea of what appeals to the wanna-buy-US mentality is sorely lacking in this class of car. And the kicker is...it's not a cheap car to purchase!

    I wonder if they still use those plastic V intake manifolds that crack when barely aged? It's stuff like that that people remember and stir comments like cski's probably never going back.

    Btw, cski, that 65 year comment? That's still a ways off for me, but at the rate the years are flying by, not that far away. I think you should have said at least 80 year old. I have some elderly friends who I drive them (in their car usually) down to the city for hospital appointments. She is 88 and he is 91. They have bought Malibus for the last few decades. Their late 90's had a better seat than their latest 2010 has. I will say though, the late 90's one or mighta been a 2000? V6 got fairly good fuel economy on a 6 hour return drive involving some intense Toronto traffic. And it had fairly good steering feel..not even sure how GM pulled that off cuz the 107k km (66000 miles) suspension was completely toasted on the front end. And I have ridden with them..not curb climbers and certainly not hard on their cars.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    seats are personal opinion. I had a malibu rental back in October (mid range, with suede of some kind inserts?) that I drove from NJ to VA for business. About 5 hours each way, and I really liked the seats. Very comfortable and supportive.

    I think the stereo (this had XM thankfully) was fine too.

    overall, much better driving than I expected, not that I would ever buy one!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Yes, that is quite true about seats. We all have so many different body shapes etc.

    Re the stereo, I think you must have misunderstood..I was giving GM credit for always having good sound.

    The real puzzling thing about the stereo in Kia and Hyundai, you would think these would have basically identical sound (or within reason of course since certain small changes can affect sound) among the same classed cars. But it seems in all 3 models of each brand, the Kia seems to be weaker in this area even tho even the Hyundai's too are not that great. I think I even read that cski, whom we know is pretty Kia gung-ho and a genuine fan, was not overly impressed with his stereo in his new Optima.

    And here we have the lowly Dodge 200, and someone here (mighta been you stickguy?) said the stereo was great even if the rest of the car was...well..the sales numbers above tell that story I suppose as I haven't driven one.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    wasn't me with a 200. I have never driven one. And will be quite happy to live me life never having driven one!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,209
    The MAS also works in conjunction with the Throttle Position Sensor; which alters the parameters in the PCM. It's pretty complicated when you consider all the conditions. Cars are spaceships today compared with cars built up to the mid 1980's. Just the PCM module in all of our cars has 100,000 more computing power than the guidance computer in the Apollo LEM.

    Food for thought
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,209
    edited January 2013
    It's funny you mentioned Toronto...not far from my families origins in Buffalo NY.

    Here are some trim nicknames directly from a GM mechanic.
    LT= Loose Trim
    LS= Less Stuff
    GT= Good Tires

    My grandfather was a foreman in the GM transmission plant in Buffalo for 30 years. He ALWAYS bought Malibu's. I remember the brown '79 V6 model 2 door with vinyl bench seat very clearly. To buy Japanese up there would have been heresy in those days. (1970-80).

    My Chevy experience:
    I loved my 87 Z24(2.8 MFI). It was $5000 and I financed it myself at age 19 in 1990. My best friend had a blue one, so I purchased one too (red). His had the T-125 3-spd automatic, mine had the 5 speed manual and. Of course my trans developed a crack all the way down the case, causing a poor clutch alignment that resulted in damaging the pressure plate every 30 k.
    Also, it ate alternators every 30 k too. However, it was quick and I loved the hood scoops, the LED digi-dash, the sound of the engine, and the A/C never broke down after 144 k. SO, aside from the two problems mentioned it was reliable.
    The 1992 Z-34 was my attempt to replace my aging Z, and after 6 mos I sold it. Just a dreadful car. It never ran right. Ever. Took a $2500 loss. :sick:

    Next ride? 1994 black Integra 2 door 5 speed.It was awesome. Best car I ever had. The one with the round headlights and the 142 HP 1.8. Great engine and the handling was phenomenal.
  • puppybone69puppybone69 Posts: 24
    edited January 2013
    This is my Fusion, there are many like it, but this one is mine! My Fusion
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,673
    Nice!

    (This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting.......)
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Looks good. I like the wheels. Nice clean 5 spokes..hard to beat.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,209
    Only buying a home is a more significant purchase in life. (and also very stressful).

    Your car looks great. Reminds me a lot of my Optima in profile. Like the 5-stars. I recommend using the Armor-all tire foam. It works best IMO; and I have tried them all.

    Also, I use the Turtle Wax quick wax spray product and it is great for a quick shine in between full-on carnuba buff. Easy to use and wipes off quick. No wet towel to apply and no waiting for it to haze before polishing!

    Again, congrats. ">
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,695
    edited January 2013
    Only buying a home is a more significant purchase in life.

    Actually there's at least other purchase bigger than buying a car: a college degree (undergrad or grad). As for stress... it's up there.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    went to the Philly car show today, so saw all the new models.

    Mazda 6 and Fusion seemed like they were still based on the same platform, though they aren't I assume. Reminded me of each other. And big, continuing the trend in this class to jump well above my idea of midsize, and getting up into full size realm.

    Both were nice, but in some ways, a bit "over"styled.

    passat is very nice, and Germanic. Big though.

    nicest overall seems to be the Accord. Still good sized, but seems tidier. and very nice inside.

    acid test of course is how they drive. can't get that at the car show!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    It is interesting how these cars are perceived in the metal. The Accord, Fusion, Mazda6, Malibu and Passat are all approximately 191.5 inches long, varying no more than a couple 10ths of an inch. The Fusion is the longest and widest, but again we are talking fractions of an inch. The Passat is the narrowest, and both the Mazda and Fusion have longer wheelbases than Passat. The Malibu is the widest (1/10th of an inch wider than the Fusion).

    To my eyes, the Fusion looks smaller than it is, and the Mazda6 and Passat look larger than they are.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    agreed about perceptions, but to me, the Fusion looked pretty darned big too!

    I must be old, since I consider these now to be large cars (if not FS), and models like the new Jetta are the real mid-sizers.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • romil01romil01 Posts: 75
    I went to a Mazda dealership this morning before they were open. They had a 2014 Mazda6 sitting outside with no sticker on it. It was the Soul Red Metallica color that Mazda has used in almost all the promo photos, and man was that a beautiful car. Easily the best looking midsize sedan available, even when compared to the Fusion, Sonata, or Optima. I can't wait to go back and test drive one when they are actually on sale and they have more stock to choose from. This one appeared to be loaded from looking inside the window. The only problem I see is the lack of a V-6 option. After driving the 2013 Accord EX-L V-6, a four-cylinder is going to have its work cut out in order to impress me. I'm not that concerned with fuel economy.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    I think the Mazda is easily the best looking/most distinctive of the lot.

    As for engines, most companies are moving toward 4 cylinders only in mid-size cars (Fusion, Sonata, Optima, Malibu). Japanese manufacturers will soon be dispensing with them as well. And why not? The direct injection turbo 4s have as much or more power than the much larger 6s, while giving the company's overall mpg a boost. The noise problem has been addressed, there is little to no turbo lag anymore, and the DI turbos have greater torque...a win for everyone.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I have rarely ever felt I needed a 6. Would I have liked to have one, if price and ongoing FE was not an issue? Of course..but since both parameters are and always will be an issue for me, I guess I am going to be ok with 4's for life. Now turbos...the new ones that are designed to run on 87, will we see longevity from them? The kind that we have grown to assume from NA engines? Time will tell. Of course they are all the rage now and really do make a lot of sense for many reasons and having such low end torque where you use it in everyday driving is intoxicating and that much more so when you consider you are having that much fun without the same fuel hit of a similar output 6. Longevity/$ spent is the wild card, IMO..and like I say, time will tell.

    Turbos used in a diesel are a lot less demanding than in a gas job. Diesels already have beefed up blocks, cranks, bearings, rods to handle the extra compression stroke etc so are already more capable of the extra torque created through turboing, and because a diesel runs so much more efficiently than a gas, it is better capable of dealing with the extra heat created by a turbo. Heat is a killer on gas jobs...oil, bearings etc all suffer if they get too hot on old oil etc.

    Just watched a test on the new Altima and they were saying that the 4 made quite the racket when accelerating hard. Something Honda and Toyota seems to have under wraps.

    The other thing I am truly skeptical about were the FE claims of the 13 Altima. I'm not sure what EPA is, but in Cda they were claiming a fairly significant improvement over the new Accord (which gets the nod over the Camry) in both city and highway. It was quite a difference...like about 4mpg in town and 5 difference on the highway. Considering the 13 Accord's numbers already sound impressive, makes me suspect a bit of optimism with the Altima's claimed numbers.

    They also mentioned that the 4 uses a belt in the CVT now and the 6 uses a chain still. A belt will lower weight no doubt and lower rolling inertia mass, but I wonder what the lifespan of a belt will be in a car? They last pretty well on motorcycle scooters that use a CVT even with fairly large displacement engines, but when you start loading a car up with the capacity of an Altima, seems like a lot of load to keep under wraps and still provide longevity.
    I say all this, naturally assuming it is an expensive replacement. For a little scooter they run over 200$, so the one for a car must be a lot richer than that, and installation is likely fairly involved too.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,695
    I have been very impressed by what I've seen/read about the new Mazda6. I love the looks, inside and out, and love the FE of the Skyactiv powertrain. Also the fact it comes with a 6MT standard on the lower trims. I checked out the specs and features on mazdausa.com last night and found that I could probably be happy with the base (Sport) model. I was thinking of a small hatch for my next car, but if the Mazda6 is close in price to the likes of the Mazda3i Touring hatch (which is nearly $21k list for the 6MT) I might be tempted to up-size.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,851
    It's a beautiful car. I want mine in red, of course.
    The last thing I NEED is a new car, but this one is tugging at my "want" side.

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  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited January 2013
    Wow..is it ever a looker, eh? I especially appreciate that it's a 6 speed in lieu of a CVT. Also love that fact that they lost the red instrumentation lighting. Gawd I hate red dash displays. They literally were a deal breaker for me in the past.

    I hope (and will not be surprised) if they really hit this one right outta the park..

    One would assume that they have hot galvanized the body, but I wonder if the roof is too? I hear some brands are and some still aren't. Rust around a windshield can literally take an otherwise reliable, dependable and enjoyable, but long out of warranty, vehicle off the road.
    (the corrosion reappears after a windshield replacement..needed for any certification.. and keeps popping the new windshield. Body repair attempts at replacing an entire windshield frame A pillars and all is obviously prohibitively expansive and still not warranted.)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,695
    Red would normally be my choice, but I just leased a ruby red Sonata for my wife (beautiful in that color) and I also have a red Elantra GT in the family stable (driven by my son to college). So I might have to go another route on my next car. And truth be told, I don't really NEED a NEW car; I do need a car by this fall but depending on finances at the time I could go used. The automakers make it so darn hard to go used though!
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    after seeing them at the car show, I was having trouble justifying buying one of these when for the same price, I could get a 2 YO 3 series, with pretty low miles on it.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,673
    "All these" are much larger than a 3 series. Heck they're almost all larger than a 5 series even.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,295
    well, I don't need that much room, and find the new models to really qualify as "full size", so not a drawback to me!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,695
    Yeah, I've gone the used 3 Series route before. Fun car... not fun paying for parts/maintenance though!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,673
    If you don't need the room then you should be comparing the 2 yr old 3 series to a new Focus (Corolla, Civic, etc.), not a new Fusion or Camry or Accord.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    It's not even a fair financial comparison really when you get right down to it...size notwithstanding. The 2 YO 3 Series would have already given its very best years on earth to the first owner. And too soon will start to saddle you with regular $'s input for the rest of your fling.

    Not my intention to rain on your fantasy though..
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,965
    You're probabably comparing a dollar amount which you think you can buy the used 3 series for against the MSRP of the new Mazda6. Shortly after introduction you will routinely get $2-3k discounts off the Mazda6 so there would be a little more spread.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,209
    Just a word of caution on Mazda's. I had a 2004 Mazda 6 SportWagon (black) w/ the V6. The A/C broke 3 times, the water pump went at 68k, the alternator went at 79k, and the trans died at 120k. It was plagued with emissions related check engine lights, 2 wheels got bent under normal use, and the car had terrible traction when the tires got 1/2 used....resulting in my wife hydroplaning and T/L'd it. Don't even get me started on my brother's Protege. So, we have had quite enough Mazda.

    Also, their "we build Mazda's" campaign stating they build "drivers cars" like the CX-5??? It is huge and has only 155HP? Did they forget to add a 100 hp?

    My mother in law works for Mazda (for 30 yrs), and she wont even buy one.
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