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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Same goes for sunroofs. I know far too many people that regret having them. Added noise, leaks and repairs etc.

    Different folks, different strokes. Wife and I have bought cars over the years that had these "standard" and we have never used them. The window is closed. The sunshade always closed.

    Could never figure out why on very hot 90 degree summer days, I see folks with sunroof shade drawn back, and windows closed and AC apparently on, they have the the hot sun shining on their heads. What the heck is that about?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    Sunroofs (or moonroofs) are tinted and normally don't transmit very much heat into the vehicle. Our Edge has the BAMR (big [non-permissible content removed] moon roof) and we leave the shades open all the time in the summer (Atlanta - mid to high 90s) without any problems whatsoever.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,668
    The 2013 Fusion achieved 0.87Gs on Motortrend's skidpad so it's certainly not limited like the other one you mentioned. Given Ford's use of a yaw sensor and steering input I'd be very surprised if there was any limit on lateral acceleration without understeer or oversteer.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Know what you mean. I also see peole with sun roof wide open, catchiing diesel exhaust, dead animal odor, cold, heat, dust... yecch! Some of us are lucky enough to live in an ideal climate and environment, but not me.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,192
    edited February 2013
    Man. That is a loaded question pegasus17.

    Money no object? Ok.

    1)Honda Accord V6 Touring (has real 6 speed automatic..no CVT) Best build quality, safe, fast, spacious, and has lots of tech goodies. Good sight-lines, and no blind spot. Proven engine. Very nice looking car as well. Made in USA. Did I mention fast?

    2) Kia Optima EX/SX/SXL. Best price and value. Has real 6 speed automatic, Both engines good on horsepower, turbo is almost as quick as the Honda. Safe, good build quality, gorgeous in SX and SXL trim, and A+ materials on the interior, making it a nice place to sit in traffic. 3rd year for this model so all issue's have been sorted out. Made in USA.

    I spend a lot of time reading, and almost every car magazine still doesn't like the buzzing and whining sound/feel that comes from the CVT trannies. After spending $25,000 to $32,000...I don't want to hear irritating and frankly cheap sounds coming from the engine bay either. The push for fuel economy has netted some great technology, and automakers should be very proud. I just don't want to give up a nice driving automatic for a beehive to save 7 cents a mile. My commute is bad enough.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    I only own one car with a sunroof/moonroof and I don't get to drive it much anymore (with a son at college). But I liked the sunroof for several reasons:

    1) On a cloudy day, it makes the interior brighter.
    2) On a day with moderate temps (e.g. 50-80), I can pop the roof up or slide it open and enjoy fresh air (when not driving behind a diesel truck)
    3) On a warm but not hot day, I can open it up and use the AC less (roof open plus rear windows cracked gives me nice airflow)
    4) When parked on a warm day with no chance of rain, I can pop the roof and let some of hot air out, so it's cooler inside when I return
    5) On a cold day, I can open the shade and sunlight warms the car.
    6) When I am being pursued by enemy agents, my partner (a gorgeous and highly skilled agent) can stand on the passenger seat and fire at the pursuing cars or helicopters while I drive.

    OK... maybe not the last one. ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    How about that Mazda6? No CVT there. And even is available (lowest trim for now) with a 6MT. And talk about "nice looking"!
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,192
    On the Fusion, it lets you have a little more fun till the nanny shuts you down. Each mid size is programmed a little different. It was developed in Germany. I wish mine was sometimes too.

    The top speed on my car is 131 mph. I would love to check that out if it was safe, which it's not, and if there weren't 6,000 camera's so folks at home could enjoy a high-speed pursuit on my behalf.

    There is a local high-speed exit off 395 that I enjoy pushing my cars handling a bit, and it is still satisfying. I think the EST kicked in once in the past 6 months, so it is not a big deal. My real desire fro new tires is for better steering feel, and better rain traction. I am glad that I know what my car's limits are. .82 is enough for me.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,192
    Awesome. Secret agent. LMAO

    I skipped the sunroof and got the flux capacitor with the Mr. fusion upgrade.

    To me the sunroof is for ambiance. It says "I have the top of the line". It just wasn't a priority for me. I have had cars with them before, and I liked having a sunroof....but again, I just rarely used it. It is congested here. With the sunroof open on the beltway while crawling at 5mph; it's like sticking a tailpipe in the roof. I HATE diesel fumes too.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,273
    forget the shade, I would have the roof wide open too.

    I won't buy a car without one. The shade is always open, and the roof itself whenever possible. Can't stand a car with a solid roof at this point.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • So, except for the next Mazda 6, I've test driven all the new mid size sedans. If I was going to buy a mid size sedan tomorrow based on what is currently offered, I would rank my buying preference in the order below. What's your buying preference? (The Mazda 6 is based on the 2013).

    (1) Honda Accord
    (2) Kia Optima
    (3) Nissan Altima
    (4) Ford Fusion
    (5) Mazda 6
    (7) Subaru Legacy
    (8) Hyundai Sonata
    (9) Toyota Camry
    (10) Chevrolet Malibu
  • smarty669smarty669 Posts: 3
    edited February 2013
    Crap, Completely Forgot about the Passat. I've added that into my buying rank.

    (1) Honda Accord
    (2) Kia Optima
    (3) Nissan Altima
    (4) Ford Fusion
    (5) Mazda 6
    (6) VW Passat
    (7) Subaru Legacy
    (8) Hyundai Sonata
    (9) Toyota Camry
    (10) Chevrolet Malibu

    For me it probably would be a top choice between the first 3.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,273
    I am not in the market now, but I have sat in just about all of them. Though I did drive the Subaru when I was looking at Outbacks.

    based on looking/sitting and lots of reading, the ones that would be on my list are:

    Legacy
    Accord
    Passat
    Optima
    Camry (hurts me to say that, but only because I liked the seats!)

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • Drive the Accord Sport and then the Mazda 6 back to back. The Mazda rides better, handles better, has the sweetest automatic, has better seats, a more ergonomic interior. Last but not least (subjective opinion coming...) The Accord looks positively pedestrian compared to the 6 from any angle. As for the Honda V6's, the cylinder shut off system is far from transparent.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,192
    edited February 2013
    Mazda 6 would be tied for 3rd w/ Fusion, Passat, and Altima. The Camry is dead last. Actually, the Mazda looks awesome.... But I haven't seen one in person.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    Just saw in my local paper that the price of a zero out of pocket 3-year lease on the Accord LX has dropped $40, now $249/month. Probably reflects the 2012s being sold out finally. Now the lease rate is much more competitive with some others such as Passat, Sonata, and Optima. I wonder if the price drop is due to auto show season, where many manufacturers have special incentives.
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Posts: 536
    edited February 2013
    It's 219/month here in SW Ohio. you have to add the $250 doc fee + tt&l but that is a big drop...The only change in the lease data i saw was the money factor dropped from 0.00155 to 0.00125; residual still 62% for 12k miles/year on the LX

    http://pictures.dealer.com/v/vosshondaoh/0289/f0011d780a0d02b70197871d6b3ab119.j- pg
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    $249 with nothing OOP is a better deal IMO compared to $219 with a doc fee and TT&L (and first payment, most likely) up front. Not sure about Ohio, but in MN you pay sales tax up front for the entire lease term. So let's say the payments total $9,000... you pay (or SOMEONE pays) $600 just in taxes. The fees would add about another $600. So that's like paying, let's see, carry the 2... just over $250 a month. But you'd have to pay $1,200 of that (and maybe over $1,400 if the first payment isn't included) up front. With the $249 a month and nothing OOP deal, you pay NOTHING up front, not even the first payment. I'd take that deal over what the Ohio dealers are offering any day.
  • Your original post did not say the 249 included taxes. If i add in the rest of the costs to the initial 219, i get 219+7+15+4 = 245 total per month. Much better than a few days ago...
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    My original post said "zero out of pocket". What was unclear about "zero"? :)

    Does that $219 + fees + taxes deal include the first payment paid for you, or do you pay that up front too?
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Posts: 536
    edited February 2013
    It's 36 payments of 245 OR 35 payments of 252 (with ZERO o-o-p). you win by $3/month.
    I still want a power seat though...
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    I can live w/o a power seat as long as the manual adjusters provide good range of movement. But what I am finding I like a lot more than I thought I would are the seat heaters on my wife's Sonata GLS with PEP. I figured with cloth, seat heaters were superfluous. Well, I think differently now! It's nice to feel the warmth long before the car's interior warms up.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,954
    edited February 2013
    I'm not in the market right this second but am looking to replace a midsize sedan in about a year so I'm starting the comparos of my own. I compared the 6 Grand Touring vs the Accord EX-L. The Mazda6 GT is about $1500 more than the EX-L but it does appear to come with NAV and quite a bit more. My list is not all inclusive as some things just don't matter that much to me so I just listed the ones that are and the ones I find interesting.

    1. 6 has 6spd auto vs Accord's CVT. I personally would rather have a 6 spd auto than the CVT.
    2. 6 has about the same power and torque but arriving at lower revs.
    3. 6 weighs about 135lb less.
    4. 6 gets 26/38 and the Accord gets 27/36. Somewhat of a wash there I guess.
    5. Exteror and interior dimensions are very close so no clearcut advantage to either there but I did notice the 6 has over 2 inches more in wheelbase which usually equates to a little smooter ride.
    6. In these models, Grand Touring and EX-L, a lot standard or available but I was suprized at how much more the Mazda, which is listed below first, had for example:
    -19" vs. 17" tires/wheels.
    -Directionally adaptive headlights, not available on the Accord.
    -HIDs, halogen on the Accord EX-L.
    -11 spkr sound vs. 7 spkr sound in the Accord EX-L.
    -Glovebox light, not available on the Accord EX-L. LOL. I don't really care but there it is.
    -Gearshift knob is leather, plastic and rubber on the Accord. What's up with that on leather trim?
    -Compass standard on the 6, available on the Accord.
    -Auxilliary visors vs. not available on the Accord.
    -Voice activated NAV vs. available for the Accord.
    -Homelink on the 6, not available on the Accord Ex-L.

    There are a couple of things I noticed that the Accord has and the obvious one is that side mirror camera thing. I'm not sure I would even have that turned to tell you the truth. I'm still getting used to using my backup camera in my current new vehilce and notice a slight disruption in my awareness of where the front of my vehilce is going as I watch that thing and don't like that exactly. I realize I'll get used to it but I don't know if I want to be staring at a video pic of my side mirror driving 70 down the expressway. I'm sure it will good thing but it's not a major plus for me. The other thing was that both driver and passenger front widnows on the Accord had auto up/down vs just the driver on the 6. Not major but wanted to offer equal time.

    All in all, I would on say on paper at least the Mazda6 is great competitor and from what I've read it drives very good too. Can't wait to take my wifes's 2007 Mazda6 in for her next oil change and test drive one.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,192
    I need to go drive an Accord, a Fusion, and a Mazda 6. This race is too close for me to make an on-paper only choice. I briefly drove a Fusion, but it was the only one the dealer had at the time.

    I am biased.....see below.

    For example, my drive into the city today was very satisfying. My Optima's 6 speed auto is always ready to choose the right gear, making 50 to 85 mph passing effortless. The sound of the dual exhaust is very throaty and quite refined until about 500 rpm before redline (6500 RPM is redline)...where it gets coarse. The main power-band is available between 3500 and 6000 RPM. It is a very flexible combination.

    So, if I only drive the Optima then my choice is going to be biased, no matter what.

    So, by this weekend I will have driven all 4 top contenders. It's an excuse to go play with cars, and since it is my birthday today, I think I will have a bit of fun! :D
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,683
    Sounds like a good list and a fun bday activity!++

    Why are you getting a car already? Did you lease?
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 791
    Which Fusion powertrain are you going to test drive? The 1.6L EcoBoost (with 6-speed A/T) will be a disappointment in comparison to the Accord's 2.4L and Mazda6's 2.5L. The Mazda matches the Kia Optima's maximum torque, but reaches that peak at 3250rpm (1000rpm than the Kia), so it has some extra low-end grunt. The Accord will outrun all three of them and would be almost perfect if not for that one deal-breaker- CVT!!!

    I look forward to hearing your thoughts on them after your test drives! Have fun!
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,683
    edited February 2013
    I'm normally a manual guy, but this time needed to go auto for the spouse and teen in our house. I liked the Accord CVT better than I thought I would. If you're not going to shift for yourself, why celebrate the little jerks? The Accord CVT inserts a little pseudo "shift feel" via programming, and is apparently better than Nissan's CVT for feel and sound.

    I get to keep our 2008 Accord EXL 5MT, which becomes more "my" car, and so I don't mind having a CVT in the family.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,954
    edited February 2013
    Why do you say the Accord will outrun all three? The Mazda 6i Touring Auto has been timed at 6.5 for the 0-60 and 15.5 for the quarter. The Accord was timed 6.5 and 15.7. Doesn't appear to me that the Accord outruns it. It may ourtrun the Fusion 1.6T and the Optima EX though.

    With that being said, most people IMO are not buying these cars becasue they are 1 or 2 tenths of a second quicker. Now if you were talking a couple of seconds that would be a deal breaker as that would affect the driving experience somewhat. That's really the only reason I even glance at 0-60 times for cars like this is to make sure they are in the ballpark with their competitors and they usually are. Very little seperates them when it comes to speed. Now if I were comparing a Mustang GT vs. a Camaro SS or something like that I would be very inerested in the 0-60 times etc.
  • The Mazda 6 manual seats do have height adjustment. Aftermarket seat heaters can be added for about $500 as we did with my wifes Sonata SE Turbo.
    For my car (manual cloth) and truck (leather power king seats) I installed sheepskin covers for less than half the cost of heated seats. They are warm in winter and cooler in summer. I even have sheepskin pads for the Motorcycle seats. They add serious comfort to any seat. No baahhaaaad sheep jokes please....
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,192
    I am not buying anything. Just gonna check them out.
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