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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,263
    edited April 2013
    LOL. I heard that all CVT's were made from unsold treadmills. :shades:
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,263
    Thanks man. Turtle Wax quick wax and Armor All tire foam work wonders after a good weekly hand wash.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    heh...nice :P
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    On NTSA site I found 10 complaints regarding 2013 Accord (5 about transmission/powertrain and 5 about engine) vs 2 complaints regarding 2013 Ford Fusion ( 1 transmission and 1 engine). Just interesting statistics. I guess people really pissed off go to NTSA website to file a formal complaint. It is also should be safety related. Link is Mazda6 is too new so I did not look up.

    For Fusion transmission alone number of complaint by year:
    2009 - 1
    2010 - 118
    2011 -18
    2012 - 10
    2013 - 1

    You can really see the sharp spike in 2010 when 6F32 was first introduced. It looks like they fixed something (may be valve bore design) in 2011. But still not as trouble free as Aisin TF-80 6-speed and Mazda FNR5 5-speed used in 2009.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,650
    edited April 2013
    That Ford 6speed is a joint design between Ford and GM. I wonder if the GM vehicles with GM's version also had some issues?

    My brother has a 2010 Fusion Sport with the 3.5 v6 and he's not had any trouble with it so far.
  • No doubt the GM parts are the problem! Why on Earth would Ford ever agree to work with GM on anything anyway? That kinda defeats the whole point of Ford vs Chevy, doesn't it?
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,650
    No doubt the GM parts are the problem! Why on Earth would Ford ever agree to work with GM on anything anyway? That kinda defeats the whole point of Ford vs Chevy, doesn't it?

    LOL. I think back then, Ford and GM were scrambling for updated transmissions and neither was in good financial condition.
  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Posts: 74
    edited April 2013
    In the rather long, drawn out process of test driving and researching cars it came down to two brands. Honda and Mazda. Test driving the Accord LX, then the Mazda 6 I Touring, the Accord Sport and finally the Mazda I Sport.

    Strictly from a over all driving dynamic it was not even close. The Mazda was well composed when driven hard into the corners and sublime while cruising on the Highway. It honestly felt like a BMW in this regard. While the Honda's were transferring every road irregularity and did not feel as stable when pushed to the edge of traction, they also offered less braking feedback.
    The auto transmission was much better in the Mazda as was the electronic steering feel.
    Ergonomically the lay outs were a tie, the seats are better in the Mazda. Site lines were better in the Honda. Front seats recline almost flat in the Mazda and the 60/40 rear fold downs are much better than the oval opening, single seat section offered in the Honda.
    Outward appearance, the Accords look positively pedestrian compared to the Mazda 6, especially while viewing them almost side by side at the auto show.
    The overall package offered by the new Mazda 6, especially for the value, is hard to deny.
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    No, GM does not have problems no matter what Government bailout hater trolls try to tell you - just look for statistics (open CR e.g.). It is not transmission design issue but it is how it is executed. Ford may use different materials or shortcuts. Valve bore e.g. may be designed differently or from less durable materials e.g.

    3.5L Fusion does not have 6F35 transmission. It has same Aisin transmission as MKZ (which is problem free). 6F35 does not handle torque that 3.5L produces.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,762
    Nice Pix! Haven't driven the new 6, but it sure does look good.

    Did you buy one? If so, congrats! Great car+++
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,263
    edited April 2013
    Did you buy the 6? Sport or Touring? I like how the cab is laid back and lends the car a very Jaguar-esq stance.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,681
    I've had my Fusion for a little over 5 weeks, but I washed it for the first time today.
    Waxed a few spots, trunk and side mirrors and those look a lot better.
    It sat somewhere for 6 months and the interior was kind of dull, so I've been bringing it back.
    I guess I'll be doing the same with the exterior, although I don't mind.
  • I bought the I Sport. I may the only person who does not want a bunch of blinking "nanny" lights every time a car comes up along side of me etc. etc. Also prefered the 17" wheels.
    700+ miles so far so great.
  • I did, Thanks!
  • eziodeziod Posts: 3
    I'll throw in my two cents on this. Just test drove accord 13 and mazda6 2014. Both great cars. However, I actually have to give the handling nod to the accord believe it or not. Definitely liked the appearance of the mazda better both inside and out and the accord seemed a little quicker (4 cylinders). Took both cars on my standard circuit I use for my daily commute. This allowed my to test both cars against my Santa Fe (no comparison of course) and my acura el. (Also no comparison) but I actually ripped onto hi way on ramps and compared max speed for these cars vs what my cars would do and the accord had the edge over the mazda 6. Body roll was less prevalent in the honda. Ride and composure was good for both cars.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,715
    You test drove these cars (I am assuming they were brand new off the lots), and ran both of them up to their maximum speeds?! I am sure the people who wind up owning these cars will appreciate that! :(

    In MT's recent comparo (May issue), the Mazda6 was actually a bit quicker than the Accord Sport. Of course, seat-of-pants feel is different from instrumented testing.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,263
    edited April 2013
    You would be surprised how many transmissions are joint ventures. One thing on durability of GM transmissions. All of the little Grumman postal vehicle's have GM 3 speed auto boxes. The real name for these trucks is LLV's, or Long Life Vehicles. They were designed and tested to last for 25 years... With many lasting far longer w/o major repair 's.

    There are many more examples of weird co-ventures. The Dodge RAM 1500 and the Bently Continental share their 8 speed unit built by ZF.

    I am the last person to come to GM's defense, but they do make some great products. The new Corvette Stingray C7 comes to mind, and the Malibu is a decent car as well. I am also impressed with the Regal and others. Still not going to buy one, but maybe someday.
  • eziodeziod Posts: 3
    Communication, communication. What I meant to say is that I took the cars onto the on ramps as quickly as one can go in the cars on an on ramp. By no means at the maximum speed of the car. That would be suicide! It was done to test cornering ability and body roll.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,689
    BMW used a GM built transmission a few years ago.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 960
    Still, I hope the Accord I bought last month wasn't driven like that! :)
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Given the choice, I would pick that car to be the owner of, over one that had been stuck in stop 'n go traffic sitting in 100+¼ temps idling away..on its demo drives.
    Not too much is harder on a new car than sitting idling excessively.

    I'm having a Seinfield episode recollection. (The Smelly Car). I remember on one of my test drive demos, that I literally had to bring the car back to the dealer after only 2 miles..
    And this excerpt from that episode describes exactly how bad this poor new car smelled..Whoever had test driven it prior had it really really REALLY bad :sick:

    He anthropomorphizes the smell:

    "Don't you see what's happening here? It's attached itself to me! It's alive! ... And it's destroying the lives of everyone in its path." Again, later: "This is not just an odor - you need a priest to get rid of this thing! ... It's a presence! It's The Beast!"[1] (Elaine remarks on this, later, to Carl: "Oh, man, just rampant, mutant B.O. The "O" went from the valet's "B", to the car, to me. It clings to everything. Jerry thinks it's an entity.")

    Too friggin' funny...but only if it doesn't happen to you.

    What a show...they really did cover it all...random everyday real world happenings..

    That must be one of the drawbacks to being a car salesman. Trying to diplomatically handle someone who stinks that bad. But, "Rampant, mutant" haha BO is WORSE than chain smokers who haven't washed their clothes in 2 months. I have literally had to change grocery lane lines to catch a breath with a family like this a few years ago..
    And ya gotta figure if they smell that bad, the grease and dirt has to transfer a huge degree of that debris right onto your new seats..there for life.. :(
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,263
    BMW used a LOT of GM tranny's!!! I just looked it up in a BMW forum. Seems the lower power motors in the 323, 325, X series, ALL used GM units, many made in France. (this data involves the E46 models from the 90's and E90 models from 2005 - 2007).

    ZF made the unit's in the more exciting BMW offerings. Apparently; the GM's were just as - or more reliable; and cheaper to fix. Thanks Kirby.
  • eziodeziod Posts: 3
    Trust me. You would be fine withe cars I drove. I did not abuse the car by any means. 60-70 km/ hr is hardly detrimental to the car. I am a stickler about that for cars I buy as well. If you were so unfortunate to drive one that the salesmen take out, good luck. Now that is abuse. Which brings up a point, why do these dealerships not have testers as was the case years ago? They want to sell vehicles used for testing as new. Check the odometer!
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 960
    And the odometer can be "hidden" now as you can scroll through different screens. It's easy to overlook.
  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Posts: 74
    edited April 2013
    Wow......just..... wow.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    You won't find me standing in any line with you.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,263
    Come on guys. You have been fighting for two days now. I bought my car with 90 miles on the ODO. It was a dealer trade. Someone wanted a black EX in Richmond. Just because a car has a few miles on it doesn't mean it was abused, and who doesn't dig into a car's performance during a test drive? I want to know what the car is capable of before I owe 25 g's on it.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    You certain it was BO :)

    New catalytic converters sometimes have a rotten egg smell. A couple years ago I drove a G37 Coupe that had a horrible burning smell...they said it was the 'packaging' still on the exhaust.

    Either way...not good ;)
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,263
    edited April 2013
    Porsche 911 Carrera S Coupe. (non-turbo), 3.8 flat six, 400 HP.
  • My Dealer did not have the model/color of the Mazda 6 I wanted. They did a trade with another Dealer that had one coming in two weeks. It's 6-8 weeks to order from the factory right now.
    I talked them into letting me drive the car from the original destination to my Dealer before buying it. 3 miles were on the ODO (typical mileage due to transports and factory testing).
    36 miles when I was done. Perfect test drive and great customer service.
    Also did not get a thrashed demo car. ;) Already had the oil changed at 700 miles.
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