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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    Did you recently purchase a car from the Detroit 3 (GM, Ford or Chrysler) after avoiding these domestic vehicles in the past? What made you change your mind? A reporter would like to ask about your experience. If you can help, please contact pr@edmunds.com by Friday April 26th 2013.

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    Share your vehicle reviews

  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    I'm not following you. Are you talking about a "standard" heat and air conditioning unit instead of climate control system where only the temperature is set and the unit decides whether to give heat or A/C and through which vents?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740
    Can you imagine operating MFT without taking your eyes off the road at all [even if you've owned the car for an extended period of time]?

    Yep. Do it every day. With MFT you get auto climate control. I use the right hand screen in the gauge cluster to adjust the temperature. I never ever touch the controls on the MFT screen or below it. You don't need to. I use steering wheel controls for everything except changing media sources (one button press) and turning heated seats on and off.

    It's not nearly as bad as people try to make it because they didn't spend 5 minutes to see how it's supposed to work.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,676
    Heh :)

    Its funny because I'm the exact opposite. I couldn't stand 80's and 90's GM interiors. Just looking at the controls would make me cringe and I'd wonder "Who likes this? They probably just bought the car because they got a good price"...I never thought anybody would actively seek them out ;)

    OTOH...Every Ford MyTouch interior I've driven I really liked and thought was intuitive, nicely laid out, and easy to use. I don't own one so I don't live with it everyday so maybe I'd change my mind during the daily "grind"

    Fusion:
    image

    88 Cutlass:
    <img src="http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/3/1681/4721/29202360024_large.jpg"
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 796
    I rented a car from Enterprise a few months ago and my reservation for a standard or full-size (anything but a Chrysler or Dodge). I was pleasantly surprised when the rental agent gave me a free upgrade to a 'Premium' vehicle they had just received the previous day- a brand new 2013 Ford Taurus Limited.

    I loved the looks and ride of the Taurus. But without an Owner's Manual, I was flying blind on MyFordTouch! I quickly learned to despise it!

    My best friend just got a 2013 Fusion SE as his company car and it also has MyFordTouch....he wants his 2012 Fusion SEL back(even though it had the transmission 'self-destruct' issue)!
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,324
    The picture of the Old's has A/C controls that I have never seen before...The unit that we have been discussing is the one with slide controls that directly operate the HVAC vacuum system. This one has only 1 slide and the rest is push button.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • "buttonpalooza" LOL! Thanks for starting my day out with a huge laugh.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,324
    Hey Ivan...I re-read my post earlier about this picture and I sounded kinda like a jerk. I didn't mean to at all. The HVAC unit I remember had two sliders. One for cold or hot, the other was for where you wanted the air to be routed.

    What I also meant to say was WOW; look how far we've come! Also, if you look at the IP, it is a "digi-dash, with LED speedometer, coolant, fuel and oil pressure gauges. I also noted that the ash tray has been torn out of this poor old Old's.

    How did we ever think that this was acceptable quality? These new cars are just soooo much better. I am grateful for that!!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    IMO, there is one thing that IS done better today than yesterdecades. Having a proper recirculate control that lets the owner CHOOSE recirculate in any mode they want. Naturally, the idiot-proofing is built in so that if def/floor or full def is chosen, the recirc door opens to fresh, (and in some cases can be programmed to let you bypass that function if you know how to do it) but at least this new function of having control of it in most modes means that, if your goal is to block out a really smelly oil burner in congested stop and go, or an excessively rich gas burner and/or following someone on a really dusty road, you don't have to endure:

    a) with cars that let you get recirculate by going to Max A/C, but does it using the Mode control, if it's winter, still ends up blowing hot air in your face because the only mode it works in is Vent. This may suck, but not nearly as bad as the ones set up as:

    b) recirculate controlled by the Temp control... the ONLY way you can get recirculate is to slide the temp control to full cold called Max A/C. What a hopelessly negligently designed HVAC control setup. There may be others, but Chrysler had this ridiculous set-up on all their Tragic Wagons and K Cars, LeBarons etc.

    IOW's, if you get stuck in stop and go in your Tragic Wagon and the Tragic Wagon in front of you has an old Mitsubishi 2.6 sputtering so much burnt oil out at you, there are wet drops on your windshield, in the dead of winter, if you don't want to inhale all that, you must freeze your butts off and even lose defrost ability if it's storming to boot..

    So that said, recently I was looking at the gallery pics of something brand new this year (I forget what it was off hand but think it was....well I really do forget) and saw HVAC controls, that clearly had gone back to Max A/C control as being the only way to get recirculate. At least it was done with the Mode control as opposed to the Temp control.. but in seeing that, I just shook my head and ruled that car out on that alone. If they are THAT stupid in that regard, just think of all the other potential areas they could have and probably did, screw up..
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740
    "But without an Owner's Manual, I was flying blind on MyFordTouch! I quickly learned to despise it!"

    How long did you spend testing it to see how it worked? Or did you just drive off and try to figure it out while driving? Shouldn't have taken more than a few minutes to figure out basic operations.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    I don't know about you, but when I get to an airport at the end of a long day, usually late at night, or if I need to get to a customer meeting right away, the last thing I want to do is spend even 5 minutes (and that's low, in my experience, with some of today's cars) figuring out the controls before I can leave the rental lot.

    I wound up in a Yaris yesterday, and while it's not the greatest wheels on the planet, it has wonderfully simple controls. It doesn't slice bread for me while I drive, but that's not what I look for in a car. I see a car first and foremost as transportation, not an entertainment theme park.

    Fortunately there's still some mid-sized cars with intuitive, straightforward controls.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740
    Then don't ask for - or accept - a high end model.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 1,016
    I wasn't aware Fusion is high end. Every review I've seen complains about the Ford Mytouch system or whatever it's called.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    edited April 2013
    How well does the touch work with heavy gloves?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    edited April 2013
    I don't consider a mid-sized family sedan a "high end model". I'm not allowed to rent a luxury vehicle under my company's policies, so that's not the issue.

    I know a lot of folks love the whiz-bang touch screen interfaces and center stacks that have a zillion buttons. I'm not one of those people.

    http://tinyurl.com/bpp6jdc
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,925
    For the Fusion like the one in the picture, there are at least 4 ways to operate the climate control system.
    Center touch screen, 'buttons' around the center stack, using the buttons on the right spoke of the steering wheel that control the small screen to the right of the speedometer and voice commands by using the buttons just under the spoke also shown in the picture.
    You can always set the climate control to 'Auto'.
    I think most of you are confusing familiarity with ease of operation.
    Since we have 6 cars that and I drive all of them at times, the 3 dial system does not always have the same order left to right.
    I still have to look at the pictograms on the center dial to figure out which mode I want, in addition to figuring out which one is the fan and which one is for temp.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740
    The reference was to a Taurus Limited but even a Fusion Titanium can be loaded up with more luxury features than luxury cars had 10 years ago.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,324
    Me either. All I want in a rental is a long wheelbase, roomy trunk for my gear and whatever laptops/servers/whatever I have to deploy on site, cruise control, and it has to ride smoothly and quietly at 70 MPH. I don't fit well in compacts (6'3" 240).
    I always end up with one of those Scion vans. I know they are VERY reliable, and they have a lot of room, but they are loud and the interior make me sad. LOL. I am always happy to have an Altima....comfortable seat. Second choice is a Fusion. I have never been able to rent an Optima. Never even seen one at the airport fleet in Pittsburgh.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • gogophers1gogophers1 Posts: 218
    edited April 2013
    It's interesting that you chose perhaps one of the worst GM designs from the '80s for your point of comparison (I'm a bit surprised you didn't seek out a pic of the '86 Riviera's MFTesque boob tube or the buttonfest that was the '87 Toronado Trofeo's dashboard). And could you have possibly found a more bombed out Cutlass? Sheesh.

    No, the 1988 and newer Olds Cutlass Supremes (as pictured) used a different design than the GM cars I'm referencing (and thus wasn't nearly as "user friendly"). The '78 to '87 Supremes did use the two slide design though. And, interestingly enough, Olds used the old hat climate control design on the Ciera all the way up until they laid that model to rest in '96.

    Anyway, to each his own. I didn't think the old GM control designs were breathtaking beauties, but that is not the point I'm making here. I just thought the control panels were very functional and intuitive. Interestingly, the aesthetic argument does seem to be the primary one several MFT adherents are trying to posit however (something I find equally odd, but whatever).

    Finally, the redudant controls defense is entirely lost on me. Short of having basic radio functions (as I often - as I suspect many do - adjust stations, volume and media types while on the road) repeated on the steering wheel [preferably within a finger's touch], I do not understand it. Are there really people out there that fiddle with the temperature and fan speed settings so much that multiple control options are necessary? No wonder such a large percentage of drivers think shifting a manual transmission is such a headache nowadays - they're probably so distracted operating all their superfluous doodads and whatzits while behind the wheel that manually selecting gears and operating a clutch in anything resembling city traffic would require a co-pilot...
  • fury63fury63 Posts: 18
    edited April 2013
    The touchscreen in my Fusion Titanium works fine with gloves. However the "buttons" below it do not. As mentioned previously, there are multiple ways to get to the same place but I would agree that jumping into this as a rental having never driven one would be a bit intimidating.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,925
    edited April 2013
    Since it was the first long trip (390 miles) and I had a couple of passengers, I decided not to push the distance, so I filled up at 386 miles. Took 13.2 gallons for an average of 29.2. Didn't start trip with a full tank as I had 90 normal commuting miles on it.
    Last hundred miles after that are at 31.6, so I think beating the EPA highway of 33 MPG, should not be a problem.
    Due to the condition of a lot of the highways, I think I'd drop the tire pressure a bit next time at same temps.
    I did notice what I think is something I don't like.
    With the cruise on, going down a hill it will sometimes shift down a gear. One time it downshifted 2 gears. I guess it's something to do with the 'grade logic'. Turn off the cruise and it returns to more normal coasting.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740
    It does that to maintain the set cruise speed. It's more accurate than letting it coast and exceed the set speed.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,324
    edited April 2013
    I owned an 87 Toronado Trofeo. It had come in to my buddies shop and had the timing chain replaced, but the owner couldn't afford the repair and signed the car over for the bill. I picked it up for $1000, in 2002. It was a really cool car, and it had mega-buttons....but every single one worked. I flipped it for $2500 in less than a week to a collector. It had fog lights, digi-dash, dual exhaust, and Buicks' 3.8 liter V6. The new owner threw a rod in less than 6 months.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 796
    The &#146;86- Riviera, &#146;88-&#146;91 Reatta and (if fairly certain) some Toronado (maybe only Trofeo) had the CRT touch screen for control HVAC, audio and trip computer functions. They were mandatory on the Buick models...and this was at a time when they touch-screen ATMs were so bad that it was easier to just skip spending any money and stay home!

    My mom was a loyal Olds Cutlass owner and had three between 1974 and 1994. The last one was an &#146;86 Cutlass Supreme and it had electrical/electronic problems starting within the first year and never fully resolved. I think they actually snickered under their breath when she took it in to have it fixed under warranty! My aunt, who mistakenly thought she was better than the rest of my family, got a new Caddy Coupe Deville in 1982 with a digital dash, automatic climate control, automatic headlights with auto low-high beam and (:shudder:) the 5.7L Diesel V8 (better known as the engine that turned Americans against diesels for decades). The dealer kept it for months at a time because they had so many others in line ahead of it! They finally traded it for an identical-looking model with the new HT4100 V8...another boat anchor of an engine that ate more head gaskets and used more oil than gas.

    And my best friend&#146;s mom was asking for trouble when she bought a 1985 Cutlass Ciera with the digital dash, high-end radio and the 4.3L DIESEL V6. I won&#146;t even elaborate on that one...

    Needless to say, the idea of new or cutting-edge technology being used in GM vehicles was like Russian Roulette (with it fully loaded). But by some miracle, the touch screens were very reliable and lasted longer than anyone expected! They were so dreadful to use that many owners avoided touching them unless absolutely necessary (A comfy 75 degrees year round and that lovely station that plays Anne Murray and John Denver will be fine for the entire time I own the car). Maybe that&#146;s why they lasted so long, they weren&#146;t used? But still impressive, considering how many amazingly bad screw-ups that GM made back in those days.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Admit it. For those of us of a certain age, cars were just bad until about the last 20 years.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I could listen to John Denver on a 75 degree day... Just not in an 80s GM vehicle please.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,324
    edited April 2013
    What is a "Tragic Wagon"

    Is it the lovely 1983 Reliant K "shooting brake" ? LMAO

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,324
    edited April 2013
    Thanks for posting this new comparo.

    I was shocked at the prices first of all. No way am I going to pay $30k for a base 4 cylinder car. For that kind of money; you can get an Accord V6, Optima Turbo, Altima 3.5 s (V6), etc. I can't see spending more than 27k for the base engine models.
    One thing I was glad to see were 0-60 times that show the Accord is no faster or slower (relatively) than any other mid-size size with the base/automatic powertrain.
    I like the Mazda best from the side view, the Accord the best from the front, and the Altima best from the rear. I would call this theoretical car the "Alticord 6". Did anyone notice the Monte-Carlo line on the 6 as well?

    Also, I know I am going to take a hit for this, especially because Mazda had the guts to try something other than tan or grey for it's interior. However...can you say "Moooo?!"

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gnazone.com/wp-content/uploads/20- 13/01/2014-Mazda-6-Interior-White-Black-1024x640.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gnazon- e.com/2014-mazda-mazda-6-preview/2014-mazda-6-interior-white-black/&h=640&w=1024- &sz=90&tbnid=O14ktWnXVNwj4M:&tbnh=88&tbnw=141&zoom=1&usg=__vOKIYGFITGQ8l_WySvW4l- oyHAVY=&docid=dWoC01XtEGAzNM&sa=X&ei=w8B_UcGrPOPS2QXRFg&ved=0CEgQ9QEwAA

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    With today's 4-cylinder engines, a lot of people find a V6 pointless. 7-second 0-60 times are plenty quick for a daily grind. Trust me, I made an urban+interstate commute on 70+ MPH interstates every day in a car that ran a 0-60 closer to 10 seconds. I lived to tell about it after 9 years and 235k miles.

    Today's driver wants more features per dollar, not just cubic inches under the hood. Frankly, I'm glad we have the options, and don't just limit high-end features to cars with the high-end engines.

    I say this as the owner of a V6 midsized sedan (249hp vs. it's 175hp 4-cyl) so I'm not biased against having the bigger engine.
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