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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,306
    If you have an I-phone and $200 to blow I would get that system in a heartbeat. Really. Crutchfield does not carry crap. The market is really bad for aftermarket stereo systems and that price is a bona-fide steal.

    Just the sub and the amp are worth $200. Then you get the DSP processor, a bump in power for all of your existing speakers, and then you can use your phone hands free through the system, AND your steering wheel controls will still work. Plus, you would have a dock for your phone so you can select mp-3's from I-tunes or Google play or just from your files.

    Keeping your CRV's dash stock is the smart way to go. You can velcro the sub-woofer in the back, and if it is in the way, just unhook two wires and remove it.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,828
    My '02 Explorer, same size as a mid size sedan, is on it's 3rd set of tires.
    The 2nd set were Michelin's, which I was completely happy with, until it came time to replace them. Sidewalls started cracking after 6 years, but I got my 65k out of them, so they worked as advertised. They went from $640 to $850 for a set of 4, so I did some homework.
    Ended up buying a set of General Grabbers for $500 out the door.
    They are equal or better than the Michelin's, other than in cold weather they are a bit stiffer and I haven't gotten the 65k they are supposed to be good for, yet. That remains to be seen.
    I'll go through the same thing when I have to replace the tires on my Fusion.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,370
    >They went from $640 to $850 for a set of 4, so I did some homework.

    There will be another $70 rebate on Michelins in the fall I'm guessing. I still think they are worth the money for the quality of the tire--they stay round and roll round. I'm expecting to buy another set before winter; just bought a set for the Cobalt.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,828
    I bought those Generals over 30k miles ago.
    They are still very quiet and the best mileage over back to back tanks were on these tires at 120k vehicle miles. Now at 135k.
    My Fusion is almost 3 months old and has yet to hit 2k.
    I'm looking forward to our summer/fall driving season.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    edited May 2013
    I don't know why you are spending time defending these larger tires.

    Tire expense per set will probably be less with a smaller tire, but they may be lower quality and not last as long.


    There is no reason I would be buying low quality 17 inch tires.
    In general the lower profile tires of comparable quality have much lower tread life.
    If you look up tread life warranties, you will will not find very low profile tires with very long warranties. While you could possibly buy super cheap 16" tires that will not last if you wanted to, it not that difficult to find 50-80K mile rated standard tires 16-17" tires. If you look up 18 and 19" low profile tires, you will not find tires where the manufacturer has a very long tread life warranty.
    Even if such a tire existed, I don't want overpriced, rougher riding, noisier tires on a family sedan.
    There is not that much extra rubber and other materials in 18-19" tires to justify the cost difference. They charge so much more partly because they are lower volume tires and the rest of the high price is because the people who love the look of low profile tires are willing to pay the premium. I am not.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,306
    edited May 2013
    This just in! Read all about it!

    There is a new, 2 car only; mid size sedan comparo in the June issue, which I just pried out of my mailman's hands. This is a best-of-the-best shootout of the top 2 players in the industry in a winner-take-all contest to prove once and for all which is the best mid size sedan on the market. Period.

    The long and short of it is that the Mazda won. It wowed the C/D staff with it's driving dynamics, stiff structure, quick acceleration (7.0 secs to 60 vs Accord's 7.4) and spiffy interior.

    Specifically, they loved the Mazda's seats and style beyond it's price tag, and the handling sealed the deal. FYI! -Chris

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • Not to mention the larger rim sizes have far fewer choices when replacing. I researched 19's and they were $pendy. Test drove the Mazda 6 with both 19's and 17's and did not find a handling advantage till you were skidding through the corners. Even then it was a wash. (bought the Sport with 17's) Also they tend to have wider profiles which makes for worse winter driving capabilty. We have 18's on a a Sonata 2.0T and had to buy dedicated 16" rims and tires for winter. Not suprisingly the car rode much nicer on 16's.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Yes, this is what happens when family sedans are rated by people who rank handling and 0-60 times (7.4 seconds is too slow for them) over crash tests, reliability and ride. Now, if there was no compromise made for the better speed and handling, it would be different.
    Their rankings would be more meaningful if they were testing WRX vs EVO or Camaro vs Mustang.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    There is a new, 2 car only; mid size sedan comparo in the June issue, which I just pried out of my mailman's hands.

    You need to complain to the USPS. My mail carrier delivered the June C/D issue to me almost a month ago! :surprise: I think I mentioned the 0-60 results many posts ago.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    C/D said they liked the ride of the Mazda over the Accord's. Reliability? For two brand-new models? Too early to tell, especially given the new powertrains in these cars. As for crash tests, the Mazda6 is an IIHS Top Safety Pick+ just like the Accord.

    Plus the Mazda was quicker, had better handling, better seats, and IMO much better styling inside and out. Plus the economical Skyactiv powertrain.

    What's not to like?
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017
    Yes, I would like to replace my wife's Mazda6 with a new one in about a year. However, to get the bells and whistles you are forced into 19" rims. That is a major downer for me. I would prefer 17", could deal with 18", but 19"s may just be a deal breaker as we keep our cars for at least one tire change, often two. And, living in Chicago area, the extra wide profile do not do that well in the snow and I'm just not into having dedicated snow tires for a myriad of reasons.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017
    edited May 2013
    Just the 19" rims on the uplevel versions! ;) And the fact that the Touring level only gets the "pleather". I would prefer cloth or leather or at least the option of one of those. Love just about everything else about it.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,306
    They are all great cars, all variations on a theme. It allows us to make choices on what we prefer. I don't see how proclaiming the 6 the current winner should upset anyone. Heck, the Passat was on top one month, but came in last 90 days later! It doesn't mean it is suddenly a bad car. My Optima's steering is vague, and it is hard for me to feel out the car's limits. I wish I had the Mazda's steering and that X factor that makes it more fun to drive than others perhaps.

    It's a fickle market, and our arguing proves it! :)

    Oh, and Backy...the mailman apologized. LOL.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    I'd be happy with the base Mazda6 with the 6MT, it has 17" rims I believe. And a price close to $20k. A lot of car for that money.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017
    edited May 2013
    Agree mostly but two of my present three vehicles have automatic climate control and I've, admittedly, become addicted to that feature. It seems whenever I drive my truck, which doesn't have it, I'm constantly fiddling with the fan and/or temp control to get it right. If the base had that(as an option of course) I could just add the autodim+compass+Homelink rearview mirror and that would do it. I know, I know it's a minor inconvenience but after having had it I just don't want to go back. Kind of like power windows.

    Obvioulsy, a profit motivated(for shame) marketling ploy on Mazda's part! :sick:
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,897
    to our latest featured member, who just happens to be a sedan owner: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f277491

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,306
    I especially like 6 Sport MT choice too, especially since a previous review said that the Mazda's light clutch would not be a problem for rush hour commuting. Also, It weighs only 3150 lbs. (210 less than the Accord Sport) There are 6 exterior paint options on the Sport, and you can choose either black or tan interiors. You have to move up to the Touring for more options, and C/D said that the seats in the GT looked AND felt like they came from a $50,000 car.

    If the 6 was available in Dec 2011, I would have bought one. Really.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,828
    Some people will understand my point. I 'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just to keep an open mind that rim size is only one component in a vehicle's handling/ride.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,828
    Once you have one, like my Fusion, anything without it seems 10 years old, or just cheap.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017
    I think we are all smart enough to understand that suspension parts, quality, tuning, etc all contribute to the ride and drive of a car. We were talking in general terms that larger, thinner sidewall tires ride rougher given equal other parts and are more expensive when same brand and quality tires are concerned. Then you also have the rims. Haven't seen too many rims of the same quality and manufacture that were cheaper in the higher rim diameters. Some manufacturers do a pretty good job of integrating the larger wheel diameter without sacrificing a smooth ride but 9 times out of 10 in mainstream(non-luxury) one can tell the difference easily.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017
    I like video games but just not in front of me while I'm driving. Too gimmicky for me. I guess I'm more of a traditionlist when it comes to speedos and tachs and like the look of quality instruments versus digital graphics. It's a personal taste thing and I can the appeal for some.
  • tundradweller1tundradweller1 Posts: 74
    edited May 2013
    For your consideration,
    A friend owns a Blue Reflex Touring and I have the Soul Red Sport.
    He has been commenting on the pleather showing scratches/scuffs.
    I was going to buy the Sport in blue but found it too far to the slate end of the spectrum for my tastes.
    Note the rim sizes. The 17's while not as stylish still fill the wheel wells just fine.
    He claims the 19's did well in the late season wet snow in March but I still have my doubts.
    We go back and forth with jabs. I told him I didn't want nanny lights blinking at me every time a car passes. He touts the Nitrogen filled tires (green caps) give a better ride (clueless:) I put red valve caps on mine, when he asked about it I told him I had them filled with Helium to "lighten" the handling. ;)

    http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa266/tundratom/2Mazdas_zps975f8f3c.jpg
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    edited May 2013
    All praise to Mazda for making such a great car!+++

    But there are some of us who would prefer an Accord anyway. I've owned 2 Mazdas and 2 Hondas in my 33 year driving career, and although the Mazdas were good, I think the Hondas were higher quality in more areas.

    Also, the Accord is built in the USA. Honda not only has a huge factory in Ohio to build the car, but huge separate factories to build engines and transmissions for the Accord. Plus there are other suppliers around the area building things for Honda, and all told Accord production employs tens of thousands of people in the Ohio area in good paying jobs. For some, this makes little difference, but for some of us this is a plus factor when buying a car to know that our money is flowing through the US economy in a productive way.

    I've owned cars build in Japan, and Germany, and so that's not the be-all and end-all of a car purchase, but for some, as I said, it's a plus factor as long as the car is near or at the top.

    I haven't read the test, or driven the Mazda, but for my tastes I'd probably go with the Accord.

    But again, praise to Mazda for building an outstanding car. Excellent work. I think they'll sell a lot of them, and they deserve to...
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,306
    edited May 2013
    Ha ha ha ha. Helium to lighten the handling? OMG that is frackin' great!! LMAO. The nitrogen filled tires do not react with temperature like normal air filled tires. My local shell is offering Nitrogen for free by appointment, and there is a big sign that says "up to 25% better fuel economy". That is a pretty fantastic claim, but I highly doubt it unless you came in with 4 flat tires. Then I would believe 20%.

    Thanks for the pic's, and I now see what you mean by "tundra-dweller"!!

    It is more than a coincidence IMO that your Soul Red Sport looks a LOT like my Spicy Red Optima EX, right down to the cargo net and the mud-guards. Get your windows tinted!!! It looks awesome on red cars. You will be happy you did! I am thrilled with mine.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,306
    The last 2 generations of the 6, as well as the MX-6 and the Probe, were built on the same production facility in Flint Michigan.
    Since this was an entirely new car from the ground up (which costs a fortune), and that it was such a make or break model for them in the U.S.; they kept production in Japan for Q/A purposes. ( Source: Automobile Weekly).

    I hope in the future they will start making them here again, but since Ford owned the plant in Michigan and they no longer have a relationship, I doubt it will be in Michigan.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,828
    That car has the worst 'C' pillar styling I've seen in at least a decade.
    Maybe two.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Honda has pretty much always been near top rated in reliability and Mazda less so. So, odds are the same will be true with Accord vs Mazda 6.
    Car and Driver tests and rates cars very heavily biased towards track performance even on cars like this that are family commuter cars.
    The Mazda 6 is pretty noisy. Some of it is from the 19 wheels, but the car is generally lacking in sound insulation, so it will still be far from "quiet" even with the base model's 17 inch wheels. You will still have to deal with high levels wind, engine and road noise no matter which trim level Mazda 6 you get.
    Accord (and many others competing in this segment) have a roomy back seat. Mazda 6 back seat is a bit tight for the size of the car.
    The Accord's crash test results was better. It pretty much aced the test where as the Mazda got near the minimum score to get the ranking.
    Mazda 6 is about track performance, getting .4 seconds faster 0-60 and the more adventurous styling. Just the type of attributes that would appeal to Car and Driver reviewers.

    Having better looks and performance would be great if you didn't have to accept the noisy ride to go with it. It's not as if the new Accord has bad styling and bad performance. The new Accord looks pretty handsome and the styling will age well.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    edited May 2013
    If you care about road noise, the Mazda 6 is not the right car for you.
    Even if you get 17 inch wheels, it will still be a noisy car.
    In this case, the 19 inch wheels are not the primary source of the noisiness. If you get a Mazda 6 with 17 vs 19 inch tires, it will only be "less loud," not quiet or even "average" for the class.
    The car just plain lacks sound insulation, so it is still going to be loud no matter what tires you get.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017
    edited May 2013
    I've driven the new Mazda6 and I think you're comments about the road noise is a huge exaggeration. It has been noted in reviews but in real life driving I didn't think it was bad at all. That's what the radio volume knob is for. A couple of clicks and you don't hear the road noise much. I care about road noise but probably not nearly as much as you do. BTW, the Accord has always been mentioned by reviewers as having a lot of road noise. I believe the 2013 Accord is probably better but still not as quiet as some other choices. I like the new 6 because it looks great, gets super MPG while still being pretty quick for a 4 banger and handles very good. No car is perfect, even the Accord.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    Turning up the radio is not a solution for most people who care about noise. Just cover up road noise with loud music? I suppose if you always like to listen to loud music anyway, then it doesn't matter.
    The Accord was pretty loud in the last generation and that is a major reason I never seriously considered buying one. That plus the styling was bad anyway.
    The 2013 Accord is much quieter to the point where it is finally quiet enough for most people to not bother commenting on it having a noise problem. Some say the Accord Sport model is still noisy due to the louder 18 inch tires tires standard on that model.
    Road noise has been repeatedly singled out as one of the worst or maybe the very worst attribute of the Mazda 6. The only thing mentioned as much or more is the small nav screen.
    Of course, if the older car you are replacing was even noisier, noise won't seem bad in comparison.
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