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Midsize Sedans 2.0

1595596598600601724

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  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,273
    I have never heard of anyone having problems like this. Take it to dealer service, have the mechanic pull all four wheels and look at the brakes with him. Then have the mechanic take a ride with you so he can also experience your wind issues.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • mani_omani_o Posts: 6
    edited June 2013
    I'm buying a mid-sized sedan this fall and am playing it pretty safe- It's between Camry and Accord- but I'm still not sure which one I'll get.

    Here's my list so far of why I should buy each of them, it might help anyone else looking between these two also.

    Accord EX (Not standard with Camry): $23,600 TrueCar.com Price as of today
    Turn signal indicator mirrors
    Automatic temperature control
    Power moonroof
    Telescoping steering wheel
    Fully automatic headlights
    Rear camera
    IIHS Top Safety Pick Plus award
    Eight-way power-adjustable driver’s seat with power lumbar support
    Nicer Rims
    econ button
    Passive keyless entry and push-button start
    Camera mounted in passenger side-view mirror
    Looks better
    Better gas millage
    Sporty drive
    8in LCD display
    Better horse power

    Camry SE (Not standard on Accord): $20,800 TrueCar.com Price as of today
    Reliable (Seems less issues with the Camry than Accord in general)
    2 yr free maintenance
    Quiet and Comfortable ride
    not first year remodel
    Leatherette with cloth inserts seats standard
    Leather Wheel
    Lower cost (buying and ownership)
    No CVT or direct injection engine (could give me trouble down the road)

    Most important to me:

    1. Reliability- Camry
    2. Int. look and feel.- Camry
    3. Ext. Look- Accord
    4. Stereo- Camry
    5. How it drives- Accord
    6. Cost- Camry
    7. Gas mileage- Accord
    8. Gadgets- Accord
    9. Safety- Accord
    10. Cost of ownership- Camry

    It all comes down to what is the most important and what is a deal breaker I guess.

    Anyone else with a list of things you like and don't like please share!
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I never once said, or implied, it was a deal breaker. My point was only to have someone consider that sometimes others live where it is so cold, that unless they lived it, they might not otherwise be able to relate to the virtues of a heated steering wheel option.

    Furthermore, there are people that suffer from Raynaud's disease. It is more common than you might think. Since you don't have it, consider yourself fortunate.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,273
    LOL. Well, when you live that far north, the only vehicles at stoplight's are front end loaders and Ice road truckers.

    Why a diesel Smart convertible in Canada? It sounds like the least likely car to see in the great white north!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I see you edited your post since I first read it. I was going to question your findings with your Matrix, saying that the front windows down cause the wuh-whumping sound and to try lowering the rear windows instead. This is exactly opposite of what I found on my 2003 Matrix. (no roof rack or rear spoiler). When the rear windows (only) were lowered from about 1.5" and more, the farther they were opened to half way the worse the air pressure whumping was. A friend who is quite deaf, panicked one day (with pain) when we were going somewhere and I was telling him how bad the whumping noise was. We were doing only about 50 or 55 mph, and I lowered just one of the rears to show him and he grabbed his ears in pain. I quickly raised it of course. He couldn't believe it. Me too, FTM. It does seem to be an anomaly more common in recent decades with the greater aerodynamics that cars have now. That said, the first time I noticed this type of whumping sound was in the back seat of a new Mercedes 300 diesel back in about 1981 or so. The combo with the diesel or exhaust drone was actually almost painful to endure for more than a minute. My brother was skeptical what I was talking about until we swapped places and he witnessed it for himself.

    Fast forward many years and I find even small SUV type body shapes, like Nissan X Trail, Rogue, Honda CRV etc...they all seem to do it but to a lesser degree than a sedan.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I had a 71 144S too. I think it was a 71...starting to forget details like that now on some of my many past vehicles.
    I agree, it was great in the snow. A very balanced car with its weight distribution. I think the very cantilevered trunk aft of the rear axle helped offset the heavy cast iron block of the (only) 4 cylinder up front. That car had great seats and a wonderful heater/defroster too. It was certainly no ball of fire, but did sound wonderful wound out in third gear. It only sounded like you were going fast though..
    But not one of my life-time favourites as a car goes generally..
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I feel badly for you to have discovered this wuh-whumping sound in your new car. It is the type of thing that is easy to not discover during a (sometimes too short) test drive. As others have noted, it is a far too common anomaly among many vehicles in the last decade plus.

    Among the many suggestions of trying different windows and measurements raised lowered and combos, try also different speeds in case you can find a sweet spot only a few mph away from your usual. Also try to put your HVAC system into the equation, by experimenting with the recirculate door closed or in fresh air mode. Probably you are finding this annoying sound with it in fresh air mode, but if you can get some relief with the recirculate door closed, it might help for awhile. The idea is that along with the windows and the flow-through rear vents that vent air outside of the car regardless of obvious openings, the HVAC system is instrumental in what controls and affects the interior air pressure once under way. The flow through vents I mentioned, you may not be aware of, but all cars have them since about the 80's. They are often in obscure locations that can vary from inside the rear door jams, to under the trunk floor in some cars (Altima for example).

    Good luck...hope you can find a sweet spot with the suggestions which can allow you to drive with your window open a bit for fresh air but not torment the rest of your driving experience.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,273
    edited June 2013
    You have done your homework I see.

    Car and Driver said this about the 2012 Camry SE: "Interior surfaces that are close to unacceptable. No steering feel, no braking feel". They said this about the exterior: "Your big chance to become invisible". The Camry placed 5th out of 6 competitors, and the 2012 Accord (the older model) beat it and came in 2nd. (May 2012 mid size sedan comparo)

    They said very much better things about the Accord in this months issue. They said it drives great, they liked it inside and out, and the Accord has a lot more features. On the road I notice the new Accords. Very classy car. The Camry looks flimsy in comparison. All the lower panels/ground effects/rockers look very cheap. In particular the fake plasti-chrome around the fog lights looks dreadful.

    Given the two choices I would say Accord. The ONLY reservation I have is the Accords CVT. I prefer a 6 speed automatic. You can get a 6 speed stick or a 6 speed automatic with the Accord V6. Just the fact that Honda doesn't offer the CVT with the V6 tells me something about the CVT's performance, and possibly that the CVT wont handle the V6 power reliably.

    Good luck! Go drive a 2014 Mazda 6 Sport before you decide!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 967
    We drove both along with Altima and bought the Accord. Neither of us liked driving the Camry. It felt like a big boat. Interior also pretty plain. We crossed it off very quickly. That said, we are probably a minority because tons of people buy them and love them.
    We love the Accord CVT. much smoother than Altima's. it feels no different than a regular automatic, but is quieter and works with the 4 cyl to give way more power than I remember 4 cyls of the past. Love the stereo and audio interface is wonderful. I have taken two long trips with it and the seats are very comfortable and steering and suspension are terrific. I feel a better sense of the road than with the Camry. Love the backup and right turn cameras.
    It really comes down to the driving style and features that matter to you.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,273
    I just saw an article on the internet about a New Brunswick lady who bought a Smart for 2 (2005) used for $5000. 30 days later it died, and due to the design of the car, the engine could not be repaired, but only replaced....for $14,000!

    Not so Smart it if you have a problem it seems. I hope their newer designs, and the one that you own, fares better. Also, I found it funny that a ladies car trouble was in the news!!! I guess for folks that live ABOVE Maine, it's too cold for thieves and murderers! (jeez, I wanna kill this guy, but first I have to shovel 4 feet of snow, after which I am too tired and I've come to my senses)!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    I've only owned 3 Hondas...all 4 cyl, and only the current one is an automatic, but I've always heard that Honda's with a V6 "eat" trannies.

    There have been well publicized problems initially with the Odyssey and TL, and anecdotal evidence with other vehicles. I'm not certain if these instances were caused by abuse/towing etc.

    I'm not certain if the newer trannies have issues, but I'd stay away from a V6 with a CVT even if it was an option.

    Of course, I could be wrong ;)
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    wow...expensive engine :) You could buy a "newer" corvette engine for half that (not sure it would fit :shades: )

    seems odd that you could take it out to replace it but not take it out to repair it...

    Odd little things...
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,273
    edited June 2013
    I might as well print the recall. There were over a MILLION potential transmissions with a second gear failure caused by overheating and the gear teeth chipping or broken. Big time, well known recall on Accord, TL, Odyssey, and almost every vehicle with the 3.5 liter V6, 5 speed auto powertrain combo.

    Here it is! Recall Date:
    APR 15, 2004
    Model Affected:
    2004 Honda Accord (it says Honda Accord but that is because I used it as search parameter. If you search for a 2004 TL, the same recall is displayed).
    Summary:
    ON SOME MINI VANS, SPORT UTILITY AND PASSENGER VEHICLES, CERTAIN OPERATING CONDITIONS CAN RESULT IN HEAT BUILD-UP BETWEEN THE COUNTERSHAFT AND SECONDARY SHAFT SECOND GEARS IN THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION, EVENTUALLY LEADING TO GEAR TOOTH CHIPPING OR GEAR BREAKAGE.
    Consequences:
    GEAR FAILURE COULD RESULT IN TRANSMISSION LOCKUP, WHICH COULD RESULT IN A CRASH.
    Remedy:
    ON VEHICLES WITH 15,000 MILES OR LESS, THE DEALER WILL UPDATE THE TRANSMISSION WITH A SIMPLE REVISION TO THE OIL COOLER RETURN LINE TO INCREASE LUBRICATION TO THE SECOND GEAR. ON VEHICLES WITH MORE THAN 15,000 MILES, THE DEALER WILL INSPECT THE TRANSMISSION TO IDENTIFY GEARS THAT HAVE ALREADY EXPERIENCED DISCOLORATION DUE TO OVERHEATING. IF DISCOLORATION EXISTS, THE TRANSMISSION WILL BE REPLACED IF DISCOLORATION IS NOT PRESENT, THE DEALER WILL PERFORM THE REVISION TO THE OIL COOLER RETURN LINE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON APRIL 21, 2004, FOR PILOT, ODYSSEY, AND MDX OWNERS. OWNERS OF THE ACCORD VEHICLES WILL START RECEIVING LETTERS ON JUNE 28, 2004, AND ON JUNE 29, 2004, FOR OWNERS OF THE TL AND CL VEHICLES. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT HONDA AT 1-800-999-1009 OR ACURA AT 1-800-382-2238.
    Potential Units Affected:
    1099796
    Notes:
    HONDA (AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO.)

    Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2004/honda/accord/recalls/#ixzz2VHoa079R

    It is important to know if this repair has been done BEFORE you consider buying a used one. If it doesn't shift right, don't buy it.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 967
    It's very simple to find out if a recall has been issued and if a repair has been done. Just call a dealer and give the. The VIN number and they can tell you if that vehicle was affected (generally, not all of them are). We had that issue when buying a used Vibe and found out ours was not one of the affected cars. There is a very large recall going on now for certain GM models. This time our Vibe is one of them -- it's 9 years old, has 100,000 miles on it and has never shown any signs of a problem. Recalls don't always mean a car is a poor choice -- sometimes it means the manufacturer is being extra cautious because of a certain number of problems.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 394
    Sorry the deal breaker comment was directed to the OP not you, the original message said that no heated steering wheel was a deal breaker.
    Also if I was a little snippy last night sorry, but I for some reason felt I was being attacked, I am sure today that wasn't your intention.
    I am also sure that for some people it is a more desired feature than others.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,699
    I've got a 2013 Fusion and have experienced the same thing.
    Try experimenting with lowering various windows.
    I have a sunroof and usually drive with it cracked open and the right rear window down.
    The air gets sucked in the back window and swirls around to the left side and forward, then out the roof.
    It provides a nice breeze.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 394
    Mine is a 2005, the lady in nova scotia as I recall drove the car with the oil light on. Even so the engines car be rebuilt ( for a much lower cost), the problem is the Mercedes dealers don't really want to be bothered actually repairing anything, they just throw new parts at it, so instead of fixing the engine they wanted her to buy one for $14,000. When they were still under warranty ( and even now if you are foolish enough to fall for it), they would replace the turbo instead of the $5 gasket that was the actual cause of an oil leak at the turbo.
    The cars aren't bad at all once you are used to them ( and get it repaired by a non dealer or dyi).

    As for why a convertible, it the spring summer and fall it is plenty hot enough to have the top down ( as a matter of fact here around Toronto it gets hot enough that you can't have the top down need to have the A/C on instead). So far this year I have had the top down about 20 times driving home from work ( since March).
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,273
    Sorry, I actually thought that gimmeestdtranny was the one with the Smart, and he lives in Nova Scotia....I had mid size sedan overload!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 394
    No problem it can get confusing sometimes, I think he said he lived in Northern Ontario though ( unless I am confused too?)
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,273
    I just read a few articles about the Dart, which is actually a Fiat Giulia underneath. How does Chrysler keep getting things wrong?

    1) They keep merging with European companies and then peddling whatever comes out of the merger, instead of designing their own. For those of us that remember Fiat, selling a Dodge and Fiat mix doesn't exactly inspire any reliability confidence with potential buyers

    2) It is a great looking car, quite handsome and aggressive looking. It should be a hit, but Dodge decided to use a big flower in the instrument panel. Why????

    3) there are 3 engine choices, none of which have 200hp. Sporty car buyers want 200hp!!!

    So, Dodge... offer a 100k warranty, nix the flower, and add 25 hp!!! Easy to fix!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 791
    edited June 2013
    So, Dodge... offer a 100k warranty, nix the flower, and add 25 hp!!! Easy to fix!

    A 100k warranty and a different name would go a very long way.....most of the target market has no knowledge of the original Dart, so there's no equity or value in the name. It just sounds dumb without the background info....

    Resurrecting names from historical models is rarely a wise idea, in my opinion. The Dodge Dart (and Plymouth Valiant) weren't all that great, they just didn't suck as much as their domestic competitors at the time. The Slant-Six engine used in most Darts and Valiants is responsible for most fond memories of the old compacts...

    And resurrecting names from models that sucked in recent history is the kiss of death! (See 2010-present Ford Taurus for more info). Why not change the Focus to Pinto and Fusion to Granada while they're at it?
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,273
    Lol.Calling the Focus a Pinto!!! Lmao. Toyota blew it the other way around though, by introducing their new two door, rear drive FR-S sports car as a Scion, instead of a Toyota Celica. Scion already has the TC! Almost everyone remembers the Celica, and an all wheel drive turbo model could have been called the GT-S.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • The new Fusion is more like the Maverick than the Granada, my first car was a Granada, and it was a total POS that gave new meaning to "Fix Or Repair Daily"! My new Fusion is nothing like that, it's more like a mini Mustang, just like the Maverick was way back when!
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,273
    edited June 2013
    Well, I got stuck driving my moms Reliant K Wagon (1983 model). It had "Rich Corinthian Vinyl" in burgundy of course. It had a 2.2 liter 4 banger (and boy did it have NVH), a 3 speed slushbox, but to it's credit it didn't break down, the A/C worked, and the vinyl was so thick that it never tore or wore down. Actually, I bet the material would last 1000 years in a landfill....which of course is bad. Lol.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,273
    edited June 2013
    I can't believe this. I am not a Batman fan, so I guess this Optima was used in one of the movies.

    http://www.edmunds.com/photoflipper/?year=2013&make=Kia&model=Optima

    Check out pictures starting at 29 and 30.

    I know pretty much everything about every 2011- and up Optima made, but I was unaware about an Edmunds.com "Batman" trim package. I would of course like more information on this model. Is it bulletproof? Does it have an afterburner? Do I get a suit with it? The utility belt with the grappling hook would be nice!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,876
    edited June 2013
    For those of you looking, it starts at about pic #45.
    And it's not OUR "Batman" trim package. If it were, I'd be asking for a ride in it, or at least a pic next to it, for sure.

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  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,273
    Point taken Kristie, but I have never seen these pictures on another official automobile publication!
    The pictures are on exactly these pages:
    29, 30, 34, 45, 49, 50 and 51. I looked through all 167 so my information would be accurate. :P

    There is a bat-wing embroidered in the seat back on 29, and then a grill shot on page 30, etc.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,766
    edited June 2013
    Mani:

    I'm a long time Accord owner, and I recommend that car. I've owned a 2002 LX, a 2008 EXL navi, and now a 2013 EXL navi. Wow I love the new car. Just great. CVT is excellent imho, and so I wouldn't have worries there.

    The Accord got much higher safety ratings in the small offset collision test than the Camry, which did not pass.



    Check out at the 2 minute mark, when the Head of the Insurance Institute of America says: "Both of these Toyotas earned poor crash ratings. Toyota engineers have a lot of work to do to catch up with their competitors."
  • uga91uga91 Metro AtlantaPosts: 1,065
    Kia teamed up with DC Comics and made "super hero" versions of Optima and they tour around to bring attention to a charity that DC is involved with involving hunger in Africa. I went to the car show in Atlanta a few months back and the Batman and Superman Optimas were on display in the Kia exhibit.
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