Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Midsize Sedans 2.0

1617618620622623728

Comments

  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    edited August 2013
    More on the Bowtie:
    While mid sized hybrid sedans are becoming more and more numerous as auto makers begin to deal with the stringent new CAFÉ regs, hybrida are virtually absent from the large sedans.

    While a 305 hp, 3.6-liter V6 is available for the new, top rated Chevy Impala, GM is also offering a 182-hp, 2.4-liter four-cylinder hybrid and a 195-hp, 2.5-liter four-cylinder as the cars hit the showrooms. This car will give the class leading Avalon, which also has a hybrid power train, a run for the money but GM’s hybrids still have a way to go to compete with the gasoline-electric leaders, Toyota, Hyundai, and Ford.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    I suppose...

    There's a lot of politics related to oil supply.

    It's almost like saying; my neighbor purchased an expensive engagement ring, due to the limited supply its driving up costs for my engagement ring!

    Sort of... :)

    De Beers, OPEC...you'll get the shaft no matter what you buy :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I actually had two Accords during college; my 1996 LX 2.2L and my 2006 EX 2.4L. The 1996 was stellar, but the 2006 had some rattles and actually some build quality issues (console lid fabric came off, CD Changer died about 3 years into ownership, rattly/creaky moonroof). I went to The University of Alabama at Birmingham and have always lived in the suburbs of B'ham.

    You and I have been around here a long time!
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    edited August 2013
    To thegraduate:
    Have you ever run across Peter Brigham?
    His dad was a dentist from Birmingham who later designed and built two ski resorts; Sugar Mt. in NC and Snowshoe in West Virginia.

    Pete was the first Ski Patrol Director at Snowshoe where I worked as a ski instructor for two years back in the 80s.
    He's been back in B'ham for 'bout 15 years.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,738
    My Titanium is sitting on 30 mpg with just my normal commute.
    29 miles round trip. I have a mile long uphill section a mile from when I leave my house that I drive in 5th gear, so it's not like I'm trying maximize fuel mileage.
    I think there is a technique to driving these cars. Maybe similar to pulse and glide, the same way I drive a stick.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,781
    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/08/was-the-2012-camry-a-stealth-failure/

    Op-Ed: Was The 2012 Camry A Stealth Failure?
    By J.Emerson on August 8, 2013

    " 0% financing for 60 months. Up to $2,000 in dealer rebates, most of which winds up going into customers’ pockets. Rental lines bulging with high-trim sedans as dealers desperately attempt to shovel away product and make room for truckloads of new arrivals. Savvy shoppers are shaving three, four, and even five grand off of MSRP as average transaction prices land in the basement for the class. Despite massive inflows of manufacturer cash, sales volume stagnates and declines as competitors grab more and more market share. All in merely the second model year of Toyota’s marquee product, a legendary nameplate with a (supposedly) loyal customer base and years of carefully-crafted reputation. What, pray tell, is going on here?..."
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,733
    What, pray tell, is going on here?

    2013 Honda Accord
    2014 Mazda6
    2013 Ford Fusion
    2013 VW Passat
    2013 Kia Optima
    2013 Nissan Altima
    2013 Hyundai Sonata

    ... all better cars than the Camry, IMO. Heck, maybe even the Malibu is a better car than the Camry!
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    I think this was a hack job. I just looked at the USAA website and compared pricing in my area for the camry and accord. If Toyota is "giving them away" to get rid of them, I would have to ask why is there only about $100 difference in the baseline models and about $600 between top of the line 4 cyl models?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,733
    Based just on advertised prices for Camrys in my area, Toyota IS giving them away. Huge advertised discounts on them, and very low lease prices--much lower than on Accords, for example, even though the MSRPs are pretty close.

    And we all know Toyota sells lots of Camrys to fleets, to keep the sales numbers up there.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,285
    I wonder if autonomous cars will be ready by 2025. I think that will be the beginning of the end for human controlled driving (on many major roads).

    Google, and many respected Universities sponsored by heavyweights in the industry have been driving around the desert since 2004, developing the technology. (Darpa Grand Challenge)

    In 2007, a Volkswagen Passat developed by Stanford University came in 2nd place.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,285
    edited August 2013
    A black Camry LE with 30 day tags just appeared this weekend across the street. Why does a car with hubcaps and cloth seats have wood trim interior?

    I would much rather have even a cheap set of alloys, and some inexpensive but useful fog lights before "pining' for chunks of ploakstic.

    I recently started researching just what makes the Toyota Camry (and Corolla) so reliable. I found Toyota mechanics that said it is mainly the owner, and his willingness to perform scheduled maintenance.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    I recently started researching just what makes the Toyota Camry (and Corolla) so reliable. I found Toyota mechanics that said it is mainly the owner, and his willingness to perform scheduled maintenance.

    There may be some truth to that, but I would have to mention my 2000 accord. At 1k miles I converted to synthetic oil and changed it every 5k with a WIX filter. I flushed the cooling system annually (have done so on every car I've ever owned). I flushed the power steering fluid every 2 years. I changed spark plugs every 50k (at 50 and 100k) (with 100k iridiums). I used a K&N filter and cleaned it annually. Did more than the scheduled maintenance on everything but the transmission. Why did I not do the transmission? By 75k miles I had the original and 3 rebuilt transmission in the car - I never got to the mileage where I could flush it.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited August 2013
    At 1k miles I converted to synthetic oil and changed it every 5k with a WIX filter. I flushed the cooling system annually (have done so on every car I've ever owned). I flushed the power steering fluid every 2 years. I changed spark plugs every 50k (at 50 and 100k) (with 100k iridiums). I used a K&N filter and cleaned it annually.

    Sounds very diligent...too bad about the K&N air filter though...I really appreciate reading that little tidbit of info in an ad for a used vehicle or bike I am considering. As soon as I see K&N (air filter) (or any other aftermarket none OEM type performance enhancing air filter, I quickly can stroke that car off my list. Why people use these filters (that work by letting more air....hence dirt, through) for street use, is beyond me. Sometimes the effect they have on tuning due to non OEM air intake flow, can actually decrease performance throughout the rev range that most consumers find themselves in in normal day to day driving. I guess if you never do gravel roads, never drive where they use salt and sand on the roads in the winter, never drive on roads near beaches where the sand is blown inland etc etc and stick to slow speeds downtown in big cities with lots of pavement and few construction zones {ya right}, then they might filter adequately. Ironically, after they have been installed for awhile, they actually start to filter dirt a little better because the dirt has started to clog them. But of course that whole scene doesn't address how the air box shape and intentioned intake pattern of air gets changed erratically by default, or the fact that in order for it to get to that stage, a lot of dirt got sucked into the engine first. This residue dirt can often be found on the 'clean side' of air boxes in some applications where blowby fumes help it stick to the airbox walls.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,285
    edited August 2013
    Sounds like the transmission was "flushed" enough already. Every now and then, as I have said before, there are so many subcontractors that supply parts to the automotive industry that not every gear, cog, clutch and solenoid is actually made by Honda. My big surprise was finding out that GM supplies 70% of BMW transmissions, for example.

    You got a lemon. It happens, even to Toyota. Here is an excerpt from Camry forums about a lurching and downshifting problem on 2011 four cylinder models. Also, there is no dipstick!!

    "my problem is the downshifting so seems it would not help this situation at all
    wish they would just "come clean" and admit they have a design issue
    and fix it
    I don't like the fact that we cannot check our transmission fluid (no dipstick).

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,325
    Had a brand new [22miles] Camry for a weeks rental. The ride was harsh and busy. Would never buy one. Now if Honda redesigned the Accord to look like the Civic , that would be tempting.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    Sounds very diligent...too bad about the K&N air filter though...I really appreciate reading that little tidbit of info in an ad for a used vehicle or bike I am considering. As soon as I see K&N (air filter) (or any other aftermarket none OEM type performance enhancing air filter, I quickly can stroke that car off my list. Why people use these filters (that work by letting more air....hence dirt, through) for street use, is beyond me.

    I've used K&N filters since the 70s with no problems. I've given many of them as presents and never had anyone mention a problem. You either love them or hate them. We seem to be on opposite ends of the spectrum on that.

    As to getting a lemon in my accord... I don't think so. I know many people in the repair business and they all tell me that the biggest problem in Hondas is that they use Honda transmissions. Aside from transmissions, the only "common" problem is front motor mounts in the 4 cyl (I had that replaced, too).
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I've used K&N filters since the 70s with no problems.

    I sorta knew that I might get a reply along those lines. I've seen it before..
    I'm happy for you but do wonder about the rest of the history on those vehicles once you've moved on?

    I guess it really depends on how many miles you do and how long you keep your cars. Besides, some people change their oil often enough that perhaps it doesn't get low enough from engine wear burning it, to be an issue between changes. Of course the gradual diminished compression from premature engine wear and reduced performance and fuel economy may or may not be noticed by everyone.

    What you won't find I can assure you, is anyone who puts unusually high miles on their vehicles (like heavy truck owners) or others when measured in hours (like road building excavators etc) won't use a so-called performance type of air filter. It is OEM for them, and if anything pre-filters are installed for extra tough applications.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    edited August 2013
    You could very well be right. IDK. The only high mileage (greater than 200k) I am aware of is the one I gave (a K&N) to my brother when he bought a new Toyota pickup. He has used it for 341k miles so far with no problems. He also uses synthetic oil - he checks the oil in December and changes it in june. He says it has never been low.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,781
    Yeah, it's possible. Five years ago I never would have believed it, but after watching a video of the Google car, who knows what might be happening by 2025.

    My guess, however, is that the expense of such systems will make them only available for very high end vehicles like a Lexus or Mercedes Benz. The might offer a special "Google Lexus LS360 Hybrid" or something for $150,000. Only a few dozen might be sold each year at first....
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,781
    Any guesses as to where we'll be in 2018 in terms of length, width, weight, and engine size? What about in 2025?
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,325
    My granddaughters will be in their early 40's in 2050. Automatic driving technology might be standard by then. It's hard to imagine what cars will be capable of doing by that time.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    All electric with high speed wireless charging. Never worry about fuel - your car charges wirelessly while you are home, getting groceries, at the movies, at a rest stop etc.

    I will be almost 90 and driving to the store once a week in a 30 year old Miata with a stick shift. It will take me longer to get in and out of the car than it does to get to the store but I won't care.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    Sounds very diligent...too bad about the K&N air filter though...I really appreciate reading that little tidbit of info in an ad for a used vehicle or bike I am considering. As soon as I see K&N (air filter) (or any other aftermarket none OEM type performance enhancing air filter, I quickly can stroke that car off my list.

    Hmmm. I googled K&N filter problems and was rather surprised by the number of people who have in fact had problems with the K&N filter. Perhaps I am fortunate to not have had any problems. I clean and reoil the filter every June. Although I just did the filter, I think I may just listen to you and those who have written about their K&N problems and put an OEM filter in so as not to have problems in the future. I am not concerned about the cost, but put the K&N in for it's "claimed" performance and longevity. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I'd never heard anyone say anything like that about K&N before.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,781
    We are beginning to see the start of some mild downsizing in midsize cars in response to the demand from costumers and CAFE for higher mpg. Since the Accord is the car I know best, I'll use it as an example

    2008 Accord
    length: 194.9 inches
    weight: 3216
    mpg: 24 (by 2012 they'd gotten this up to 27)

    2013 Accord
    length: 191.4
    weight: 3192
    mpg: 30

    I wonder what the length and weight of the next generation of Accord might be? Maybe something like...?

    2018 Accord
    length: 188
    weight: 3000
    mpg: 34?

    Perhaps that's too much of a downsize, but that would put it close to where the 1998-2002 Accord was:

    1998 Accord
    length: 188.8
    weight: 3000
    but back in those days the epa combined mpg was only 22

    If they do downsize by c.3 inches in length and 200 lbs in weight for 2018, they might be able to go to a 2.2 liter engine while still giving the same peppy acceleration of the current model. A 3 liter V-6 with variable cylinder use could still be kept for the sports sedan people.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,738
    From what I have read the issues with K & N type filters are over oiling can ruin the MAF sensor, and they really only work better at high rpms.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341
    The tech is highly flawed and they don't want to take on the liability of "accidents." Probably over 100 years away in my opinion.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,341
    That's ridiculous. Sounds like the Big 3 apologists that state if you do the maintenance they are fine.

    No they are not! I did all the maintenance on my Dodge, and it still met the tow truck just about every year of ownership.

    These are the same people that said the Big 3 would never go bankrupt.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,738
    What mid size sedan do you drive?
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230
    That's ridiculous. Sounds like the Big 3 apologists that state if you do the maintenance they are fine.

    I totally agree that it sounds like the Big 3 apologists. I drove a Chrysler product (government owned) for 3 years. It had more in repair bills (under warranty) than the original sticker price.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Good grief people - it's not 1980.
Sign In or Register to comment.