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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Will be interesting to see if this new, larger Legacy with a back seat suitable for adult passengers can grab more than a miniscule portion of the mid-sized market, in which it is an afterthought. I mean, Toyota sells about twice as many Camrys in the US in a month as Subaru sells vehicles

    I don't understand the race to be bland though. Subaru will never be Toyota, nor will Ford. Subaru would do better to be more like BMW, lower volume, higher mix, higher profit margin (because they are actually cars people want and are willing to pay for, instead of being lowest price bidder).

    Our '05 Legacy Wagon base 5 speed has been a lot of fun. The back seat is tight, especially with the baby/child seat back there but it does offer a great deal of utility, reasonable power and mileage, and a fantastic driving experience. Of course, Subaru no longer makes that vehicle, so they are no longer on my shopping list. I hope it lasts as long as its reputation suggests!
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    I don't understand the race to be bland though. Subaru will never be Toyota, nor will Ford. Subaru would do better to be more like BMW, lower volume, higher mix, higher profit margin (because they are actually cars people want and are willing to pay for, instead of being lowest price bidder).

    Quoted for agreement. I personally don't think Subaru (or Mazda or VW for that matter) has to sell 40K sedans per month to be successful. In fact, I see them filling a niche that includes people that actually ENJOY driving and doesn't consider their car as "just another appliance" like a toaster.

    Back to the Legacy: The pics that were released a few months ago weren't impressive, but the Edmunds article showed some decent angles. The rear end still looks a little generic, and the headlights still scream Sebring, but I've got more hope that it does look better in person than in photos, something I couldn't say about the concept shown earlier this year.

    The interior IMO is a HUGE improvement over the current model. I am intrigued by the blue gauges (as well as in the Fusion Sport), and it looks to be more driver-oriented than the current model as well.

    Of course, I'll wait and see it in person (and take a test-drive) until I can make a verdict, but I've got more hope than I did before on Subaru getting it right...
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,621
    Subaru will never be Toyota...

    Actually, that is not too far fetched a scenario...Subaru being more like Toyota. :(

    Uniqueness (ala boxer engine) has its good points, but it cost money--which is in short supply with low sales volumes.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Join Consumer Advice Editor, Phil Reed, and other Edmunds staff for an auto industry chat TONIGHT, Wednesday, 9:00 -10:00 pm/et (6:00 -7:00 pm/pt). To enter the chat, click on the banner at the top of the page.

    See you there!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,621
    I got a "special invitation" in the mail today: $750 off any Ford, Mercury, or Lincoln in addition to all other offers. Good on the 2009 and 2010 Fusion and Milan, et. al. Looks like Ford is pulling out all the stops to grab market share while its major competitors are struggling. Unfortunately, the invitation came about two months too late for me, but had it come earlier I might be in a closeout-priced 2009 Fusion or Milan now--I might have been able to snap one up for around $13k with the $750 off.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Ford has been doing those special offers for at least a couple of years now. They're targeted at specific individuals and since they're not public incentives they don't affect resale value as much.
  • ajbrown1ajbrown1 Posts: 1
    Hey backy any idea why you were sent that "special invitation" or how I might get one? Thanks
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,621
    I have no idea other than I have test-driven the Fusion and Milan, and have test-driven some used cars at other Ford/Mercury dealerships, so at least a few dealers have me in their database. But companies can get mailing lists in all sorts of ways.

    Also my regular razor is the Fusion. That must be it. ;)
  • jeff_hjeff_h Posts: 20
    I got one by going to the fordvehicles.com web site and going to the Fusion area and requesting a brochure be mailed to me. Instead of the big brochure I got a mini-brochure and that $750 coupon.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,444
    that's how it's done.
    my wife originally was looking at a lincoln, so i requested a lincoln brochure.
    then she decided she wanted to look at fords, so i requested a ford brochure.
    we ended up buying a ford.
    we wanted the lincoln, but the dealer played too many games.
    we decided to buy a ford from a place where we had a better experience.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,000
    we wanted the lincoln, but the dealer played too many games.
    we decided to buy a ford from a place where we had a better experience.


    ...and you essentially got the same thing at a much lower price and less depreciation! Also, I've always found that if a dealer plays games in the sales dept. they likely do the same thing in service. You were wise to run.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,444
    lincoln doesn't have a comparable model to what we bought, but i think it's ok.
    we both agreed, our next vehicle will probably be a lincoln.
    tuition is working out to be higher than we planned.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I normally prefer Lincolns even if they're just clones (like the Aviator over the Explorer). You do get better sound deadening and usually better quality interiors plus more amenities like cooled seats. But when I looked at the Zephyr back in 2005 I did not like the dash layout and the other differences weren't enough to justify the price difference. Same when we looked at the MKX last year - I actually liked the Edge styling better and the only real difference that was meaningful to us was the cooled seats which my wife got used to in the Aviator. But it wasn't worth the $6K difference.

    Now that Ford has the core brand almost back on its feet (with the Fiesta, new Focus and new Explorer due out in the next 12-18 months) I expect Lincoln to get all new sheetmetal (the MKS doesn't share any sheetmetal with the Taurus - not even the doors or roofline), unique and more upscale interiors and features and eventually a new RWD flagship platform. Mulally has the right plan - it will just take a few years to get there.
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    In a Motor Trend article there was an article about Subaru and Toyota. What Toyota will probably do with Subaru over the next 5 - 10 years. Probably going to see more Toyota parts/engines/transmissions/mechanicals in Subaru. Subaru will retain its AWD namesake. Toyota may share more of the AWD systems from Subaru in more of its models. Basically Subaru will become Toyota. Because of less $$ for R&D and new vehicle introductions, Subaru will become Toyota. :sick:
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    We have some friends who's son (26 years of age) chose a 2010 Ford Fusion, 4cyl manual gear box SE version over a Volkswagon Jetta. He knew I had a 2006 and wanted to compare and talk about them. I asked him why he chose a Ford over a Volkswagon product? His first comments were road feel and the way the Fusion drove. Second was styling. My personal thoughts were, could Ford be turning the corner with the younger crowd with the Fusion/Milan?

    Any younger on here want to comment? Say the 30 and under crowd?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    In a Motor Trend article there was an article about Subaru and Toyota. What Toyota will probably do with Subaru over the next 5 - 10 years. Probably going to see more Toyota parts/engines/transmissions/mechanicals in Subaru. Subaru will retain its AWD namesake. Toyota may share more of the AWD systems from Subaru in more of its models. Basically Subaru will become Toyota. Because of less $$ for R&D and new vehicle introductions, Subaru will become Toyota

    So we have a profitable niche manufacturer that is gaining market share as the number of vehicles sold is plummeting, and Toyota decides its a good time to implement their "one size fits most" policy...very interesting.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    We have some friends who's son (26 years of age) chose a 2010 Ford Fusion, 4cyl manual gear box SE version over a Volkswagon Jetta. He knew I had a 2006 and wanted to compare and talk about them. I asked him why he chose a Ford over a Volkswagon product? His first comments were road feel and the way the Fusion drove. Second was styling. My personal thoughts were, could Ford be turning the corner with the younger crowd with the Fusion/Milan?

    Any younger on here want to comment? Say the 30 and under crowd?


    So two college classmates of my sister went from a Probe and a Mazda3 to a Fusion. Interestingly enough, my sister and another classmate still have Mazda3s (and her classmate is thinking of a Fusion Hybrid) and a friend of mine traded an '05 for an '08. These were all people in CA and unrelated to a mfgr.

    In Michigan, everyone is somehow related to the auto industry - your brother or sister or grandma or aunt works for an OEM or a supplier and an get some type of discount program, which colors the gene pool a bit.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,896
    Don't forget just how much SYNC has impacted Ford small car sales. Focus sales went crazy because of SYNC and now that the Fusion is more competitive from a quality/value/mpg standpoint the lure of SYNC in that vehicle is drawing the younger crowd as well IMO.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    A 17% share of FHI is not total ownership or even controling interest. I don't really see Toyota "butchering" Subaru as I guess you put it.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    A 17% share of FHI is not total ownership or even controling interest. I don't really see Toyota "butchering" Subaru as I guess you put it.

    Things that happened since Toyota got 17% share:
    1. Legacy wagon gone
    2. Auto-trans only WRX
    3. Auto-trans only Outback turbo

    Definitely heading for one size fits most.
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