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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 231
    "Foreign manufacturers" in the US include: VW in TN; Nissan in MS and TN; Toyota in KY, IN and TX; Hyundai in AL; Honda/Acura OH; BMW in SC; KIA in GA; Mercedes in AL; Subaru in IN. They all seem to be doing well and none have gone union. I have visited the Hyundai plant in Montgomery and spoken with some of the workers there. They seem delighted not only to have a job, but to be working for Hyundai and not having a union. The plant was spotless and it seemed that Hyundai took very good care of the employees.

    Many of the Big 3 autos are made in Mexico, Canada or elsewhere. I looked at a new Camaro when they first came back out. Advertised as the "American muscle car", it had a drivetrain built in Mexico and was assembled in Canada (same line as the Impala IIRC). I think if the manufacturer was to tell the union they will no longer take $$ from the paychecks and give it to the union, but required the individuals to make individual payments of their own to the union we would see how many people REALLY want to belong to the union.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    I'd rather read posts about mid size sedans that are driven, owned or not.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I don't agree. These minor but informative off topic posts usually don't last but a page, and offers insight into the posters that post their opinion, that you can use and compare when they make comments about mid-sized sedans. A bit of levity within a topic forum is appreciated by me and I suspect others too.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    Point out some levity you've seem posted here lately.
    Maybe I don't know what the word means, but I do.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Yes, you are correct, I meant leeway..pardon my brain detachment...thanking you in advance..
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,678
    Agreed.

    I recall comparing two sets of JD Power reports a few years back. A new Audi had the same reliability as Toyota's did 5 years earlier.

    Still, the newer Toyota was ranked higher, but if 5 years ago it was cream of the crop the new Audi seemed pretty-reliable even if not ranked the highest.
  • gmanusmcgmanusmc SoCalPosts: 436
    I'll second that thought - I'm a lurker in this thread but I sometimes laugh out loud when I hear what you folks say and your stories of previous experiences. Count me as someone who doesn't mind some off topic back and forth once in awhile.

    Bill G
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,341
    Thanks for your input. If you have a mid size sedan, please let us know about your experiences.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,341
    edited August 2013
    I am going on vacation Sunday, about a 450 mile road trip each way. (DC to Myrtle/Southport NC). I bought my car in late December, 2011, and I have 20,000 miles on her. The drivers side is 24" and the passenger side is 18".

    What do you guys think about wiper blade changes? I use Rain-X on all my windows, and the current blades seem to be cleaning OK. There are so many opinions out there that I am not sure what the right move is. They tend to degrade slowly, so I may be really surprised at how much better new ones perform.

    There are daily thunderstorms down there, and I remember many trips where it rained so hard we had to pull off the road as vision dropped to zero.

    I am leaning towards Rain-X blade style units....so if anyone has those installed let me know what you think.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 797
    I have yet to see one of the road, but the closest Mazda dealer is 45 miles away from me....and another one about 50 miles in the other direction. I know all too well because I bought my last Mazda (2012 CX-9) from one but have it serviced at the other because they're faster and more convenient.

    Actually, I was at my servicing dealer yesterday with the CX-9. Quick sidebar- If you ever take your car thru an automatic car wash and you have Rain-sensing wipers, MAKE sure that they are OFF!!! The Service Manager was kind enough to replace both wiper arms under Warranty....

    While they were replacing the wiper arms, I went to the showroom and didn't see a single salesman...but literally 10 seconds later, three were almost running from different directions to pounce! I announced loudly, "I'm just a Service Customer killing time....and two of them vanished, but one came over to chit-chat. We were less than 20 seconds into a conversation when I realized he was actually going to try the "Gee, your car's in for service? Maybe it's tiime to think about a new one?" But I stooped him cold and said, it's a 2012 CX-9 GT wih 12k miles on it getting an oil change" and he went away....I didn't feel the need to share my wiper issue...

    But then I spotted a friendly looking young fellow who hadn't jumped me and he smiled so I walked into his little glass cubicle/office. I asked him when they expected the 2014 Mazda3 to show up and he said they'd probably get a 'show' car late this month that was only for display. Then the inventory cars start arriving in late Sept.

    I also asked why they didn't have a new Mazda6 on the showroom floor (but wasted spacce with a Mazda2) and he said that every single one they've put in the showroom didn't last 48 hours before it was sold and they had to deal with getting it out and replacing the empty spot....then he said all of the Touring and Grand Touring Mazda6 models they get are selling in less than a week. He sold two last week while they were still on the car hauler. The Sport sells at a liittle slower rate, but still don't sit more than two weeks or so at most!

    And Mazda has stated that they're building them and loading them on ships as quickly as they can. The CX-5 SUV has been exceeded all expectations in terms of sales, so they're trying to build and ship them as fast as possible, too...

    Mazda's goal for the 2013 calendar year (for the 2014 model) was 30,000 units. At the end of July, they're at 25,115 so they'll hit their target no problem. I had originally expected them to sell 60k+ next year, which they might, but the 2014 Mazda3 will steal some of would-be 6 buyers when it shows up. It has the looks, moves and features on the Mazda6, like a 7/8 version of the larger car. I'm very anxious to see and drive the 2014 Mazda3 s 5-door which will have the same 2.5L SkyActive 184hp engine as the Mazda6 but weigh in at 500lbs less...with the 6AT, it is still expected to hit 60mph in 7.2 seconds....Zoom, zoom!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,547
    You've had your blades through one full summer. and 1/2 of another. Does your car sit outside at home or at work? That ages the blades the most.

    I used Rain-X and had it start streaking on my windshield. Tried to remove it. But I think it has deteriorated my blades along with sun. I usually replace blades with ANCO blades from Walmart every year on both cars.
  • gmanusmcgmanusmc SoCalPosts: 436
    Currently drive a Civic, but am considering going back to an accord sometime after the 2014s come out - that's why I've been watching this thread - lots of good info. Have owned a number of accords in the past - all great cars that were low maintenance and always provided dependable transportation - nothing controversial to report.

    Bill G
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,786
    On a recent 100 mi hwy trip between Louisville and Cincinnati in our 2013 Accord CVT, we got 36.8 mpg with AC on, 65-75 mph. Even hit some traffic. That's about 7 mpg more than we'd get with our 2008 Accord on a trip like this.
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,454
    You should be looking to replace wiper blades around once a year. I usually wait until they streak badly. If you take a soft rag with rubbing alcohol and slide it up and down the edge you will clean off an amazing amount of dirt. That can make even newer blades work poorly. It can refresh your older ones as well.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,547
    >Louisville and Cincinnati in our 2013 Accord CVT

    Have you experienced any problems with your CVT? That has been one of the cars I'm watching for the replacement, midsized or smaller, for two cars I have.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 797
    "I think Honda makes great engines - although they seem to be having problems with the 6 cyl VCMs burning oil - but they have never really made a great transmission. Historically, this has been the weak point in Hondas - the transmissions."

    That's not exactly true. The 3-speed and 4-speed versions of the Hondamatic served hundreds of thousands very well for many miles! Especially the Accords thru 1997 and Civic at least thru 2000. The '86-'89 Accords (LXi models, in particular) were known for shifting VERY firmly (in cold weather, it might jar your teeth during a full-throttle downshift) but they were still rock solid. The '86-'87 LXi and '85.5-'87 Prelude Si were the ones that would throw you thru the windshield with each shift, but the '88-'89 LXi wasn't nearly as abrupt even though it had an extra 10hp (120hp total). My theory is that they didn't adequately adjust or tweak the transmission as the Accord (and 'Lude) engines gained hefty bumps in power during those years.

    Since 2000-ish, the 5-speed automatic has been a nightmare from hell....and the V6/5AT combo in any Honda/Acura was akin to playing Russin Roulette! I have a cousin who works for North American Honda HQ in Torrance, CA. I know for a fact that the conservative estimate for the total number of A/T failures on 2000-2005 models is AT LEAST 1.1 million!!! And Honda only warrantied 640k of those....

    Meanwhile, my dad's 2004 Accord LX 2.4L/5AT just passed the 240k mark and the original 5AT still shifts like new....

    I was a Honda/Acura devotee for 17 years and never foresee owning another one for several reasons, one being the way they ignored the massive A/T failures! Only the owners who were willing to raise sheer HELL got warranty replacements past the 36k warranty...Soichiro Honda would roll over in his grave or urn or whatever he's in.....
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 1,034
    We've had ours for 6 months now and absolutely love it. Quiet, smooth, and wonderful gas mileage. I haven't owned a 2000s era Honda but I know lots of people who have and have had great experiences with them. They get very high ratings from Consumer Reports too. I wasn't worried at all about reliability; I wanted a car that would also have a lot of nice features, which Honda didn't have much of in the 2000s. They sure do now.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 1,034
    I was curious so I did a little research and found out that there was a recall in 2004 covering mostly vehicles with. v6 engines: the Acura MDX and TL, the v6 Accord, and the Odyssey and Pilot. 4 cyl engines were not affected, which would be all Civics and most Accords. Since your dads Accord was a 4 cyl it behaved the way we expect most Hondas to: dependable and long-lasting.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    I replace mine when they start streaking or in the fall with OEM blades from the Ford dealer. Usually about $20 a pair.
    One interesting feature some of them have is a plastic dot on then that turns yellow when it's time to replace them.
    If they are working ok and I'm at the dealer for service, I just peel off the dot so the service writer doesn't tell me they need replacing.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    I'm sure it was just a typo, but the problem rate is out of 100, not 1000, a discrepancy of a factor of 10! One way to put it is that the most reliable cars still have less than 1/2 as many problems as the poor reliability brands. That's a huge massive difference in my honest opinion.

    The more reliable comes off as an attempt at quality, the less reliable comes off as an attempt to rip off the consumer.

    JD Power only measures reliability of nearly new cars. Add another 3 years to those cars and suddenly the problem rates skyrocket by another factor of 10 in those problem vehicles. Get back to me when JD Powers measures 6 or 9 year old vehicles.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    I was an '03 V6/5AT Accord Coupe owner and had transmission troubles past the 36K mile mark and warranty period. It is simply not true that you had to raise sheer hell. If you had done a service or two at the dealer (showing good maintenance history that they could easily verify), you could bring your car in on a Monday, get a loaner free of charge, and they'd install a new transmission assembly replacement and have you on your way Wednesday afternoon.

    And by the way, they warrantied most of those either another 36K or to 100K miles.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    edited August 2013
    Fusion is going on a road trip.
    Moving our college age kid, senior year, out to school 800 miles one way.
    We are taking 2 vehicles, kid's '04 Escape and the '13 Fusion.
    Good news:
    My sister lives about halfway there on the route we would take anyway and I am stopping to pick up a table and 4 chairs she got cheap at a tag sale.
    Bad news:
    I have to drive the Escape to pick it up. That sucker is noisy on the highway.
    Wife and daughter get to drive the Fusion and it will get much better mileage.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 231
    They had a class action suit on the transmissions and extended the warranty to 100k on all of them - 4 and 6 cyl. My 4 cyl accord had 3 rebuilt transmission put in it and each time they put in a new one they gave a 3/36 warranty on it. As for the civic hybrid with the CVT - it was a disaster. That's my fear of buying an accord - long history of transmission problems and the only cvt I'm aware of was their civic hybrid. IDK if they've gotten it together or not with the transmissions. I forgot that I'd driven one months ago. I forgot that it was an accord as my memory was on the salesman with the dollar store cologne, slicked back oily hair, and his infinite wisdom on all subjects - albeit it was obvious he was poorly educated. I couldn't get away fast enough. But, I do remember experiencing what motortrend mentioned on their first drive and wind noise above my ear:
    The only complaint is that it's a little jerky at parking lot speeds; something we hope is unique to our pre-production test cars.
    www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1209_2013_honda_accord_first_test/viewall.ht- ml#ixzz2bUlmMoex

    I've read quite a few blogs on the VCM and using oil seems to be a frequent complaint. For whatever reason, it seems cylinder #3 gets soaked with oil. I think Honda, like all manufacturers, has its share of problems. What keeps their value up is the incredibly low fleet number sales - about 1 percent - which is very small compared to other companies. Three years down the road if you want to sell your car you have to compete with the fleet sales and that's where Honda really shines - very few fleet sales to compete with.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 1,034
    The pre 2006 civic hybrids had some problems with the CVT, but I don't believe that there have been an unusually large number post 2006. And all CVT technology has greatly improved for all models. But if it makes you nervous buy something else. All auto guides I have seen have no hesitation recommending cars with CVT ( some of them may not like how they drive but that's another and more subjective matter) .
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    First - that index DOES measure 3 yr old cars, not new ones. You're thinking of initial reliability - different measurement than the dependability study.

    And yes that was a math error. Redoing the math says the difference between 3rd place and 27th place on a single vehicle over 3 years is 2 problems instead of one 40% of the time.

    That's pretty close in my book and wouldn't sway me away from something I liked. Or are you just looking for an excuse to bash Detroit?
  • Just got a new Sonata today- I am noticing a really rough ride- feeling every bump on the road- is there a "break-in" period for suspensions, tires and shocks?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Check the tire pressure. They overinflate them for shipment and sometimes the dealer forgets to lower it for delivery.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    3 years is nearly new to me IMHO. I meant what I said and I stand by it.

    JD Powers is pretty much a paid-for advertisement. Doing pseudo studies on 3 year old cars works well for Detroit's short bumper to bumper warranties and "planned obsolescence" methodology and culture.

    CR routinely reports on 7 year old cars; which provides much more useful and relevant data on what dependability really means.

    Frankly, even my Dodge in the mid-nineties might have garnered a blank dot from me on its 3rd birthday, but by the 4th year it would have had a solid black dot from me.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,341
    edited August 2013
    So, I took it in for it's 4th oil change, at 20,700 miles. I gotta tell you, the weak spot in owning a Kia product is their service department. The last time I took my Optima in, it took three visits for them to replace the latch on the center console lid. Not good.

    While I was waiting, my service writer showed me the cabin air filter, (shockingly) full of debris and said it cost $59 for the filter, plus $20 to put it in. I found it for $7.99 at Advance, and put it in myself in less than 5 minutes.

    The blunder is that they left a 10" part of the cabin filter system lying on top of my dashboard, and screws in the cup-holder. I found them after already driving halfway back home. Also, they my car on a busy street with all the windows down - greasy fingerprints everywhere, in the drivers side of the interior, keys in open view and with my Garmin on the windshield, smudges all over the hood, no protectors on the floor or steering wheel, and 5 more miles on the odometer. I only told them about the left out parts and whanot and they were cool about it. I never got angry or combative and was really nice to them, and they made it right......but, I am going to a different Kia dealer next time. No more Fairfax Kia.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 1,034
    That is truly horrible. I'm surprised that they don't wash your car as part of the service. Both the Nissan and Honda service departments do where I live. And they put the car on their lot, not the street. Sheesh!
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