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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    (((This is why I am not a proponent of talking numbers at the dealership - it is mostly a waste of time. You did well on the test drive and sounds like you accomplished what you set out to do - get a feel for the car.

    Serious negotiation can be done via email working exclusively with the Internet Sales Dept folks. A good dealer will have a good Internet Dept and those folks will be motivated to offer the best pricing. That way once you've settled on what you want, the numbers are finalized before going to the dealer. )))

    I agree; however I've noticed dealers in my area don't respond well via internet. They just want to call you. And call...and call...and call. I don't respond to those dealers normally, but writing them off has quickly shut down most dealers I'd prefer to use based on reputation. The easiest to work with dealer has been Hendrick in Hoover, AL. They sell Chrysler products (including a Ram I'm very interested in). Their sales people approach you without the pressure or cheesy schtick of most car salespeople. As a result, they may end up with my business.

    In the past, I have bought cars via e-mail. My parents' Taurus was negotiated via E-Mail, my Sonata was as well.

    A note: the dealer whom I visited Saturday have of-course called me and asked me to return their call in a voicemail.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Well, the salesman was very quick to blow off TrueCar. When I told him that there were dealers that would match the TrueCar price that day, he said "well they will have add-ons and doc fees also."

    Wrong answer. Don't talk down to me when trying to earn my business, and don't tell me what another dealer will do.

    I responded back, letting him know that even if the other dealers still had 2300 in add-ons and wanted 27,432 for the car, they'd be beating the Serra Honda offer by over 1,000, and with that, I wouldn't buy either car.

    He lost sight of the fact that I have two vehicles that are serviceable, one that I'd be comfortable driving across the country (the Sonata) even though I'd disclosed that to him earlier.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    "flimsy" sunroof cover or lightweight? Lightweight is what Honda was thinking there. I am sure that it cost less too.

    Seat belt adjuster issue: I am 6'3" so I feel your pain there, but my Optima's seat-belt is a little low too, but still completely comfortable. I have driven small cars to large pickups, and have never had a seat-belt irritate me for being a little low.

    It sounds like you still like your Sonata. Why don't you check out the Mazda 6 next, and if you feel like that car isn't quite right for you, then keep your Hyundai. The V6 3.3 Sonata is a good car.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    edited August 2013
    (("flimsy" sunroof cover or lightweight? Lightweight is what Honda was thinking there. I am sure that it cost less too.))

    Flimsy. The edge at the front was rough, and the motion it slid with was loose, not damped like my previous Accord or my current Sonata. It felt like something you'd expect to find in a Cobalt or something. It felt almost like posterboard/cardboard covered in felt. For what it's worth it didn't look bad at all, but it wasn't confidence inspiring as being "rattle-proof" down the road. (How many times can I say "felt? :))

    ((Seat belt adjuster issue: I am 6'3" so I feel your pain there, but my Optima's seat-belt is a little low too, but still completely comfortable. I have driven small cars to large pickups, and have never had a seat-belt irritate me for being a little low. ))

    My Sonata's seatbelt hits me just fine. Again, prior Accords have been ok here as well. This irritated me because at the highest position it hit right at the crest of my shoulder - the corner of my arm/shoulder, if you will - and I kept wanting to move it up or down. It's the first time I've ever had the issue in a car.

    ((It sounds like you still like your Sonata. Why don't you check out the Mazda 6 next, and if you feel like that car isn't quite right for you, then keep your Hyundai. The V6 3.3 Sonata is a good car. ))

    Both are good suggestions, but I'll share my reasoning behind the shopping, just for the sake of conversation. Trade-in on my car is about 6k, outright private-party pricing is around $7,500. I have someone interested in my car at the asking price of $8,500. If I get that, or at least $8,000, I'd sell. The car has over 110k miles on it now, and while it has been solid and reliable, it's approaching the end of it's cost-free life according to history. I have family that I drive 300 miles to see on a monthly basis, and want a car I can drive through the boondocks without wondering if I'll have a problem.

    The Mazda 6 is a beautiful car, and if they offered it with a V6 engine or a more modern infotainment system, I'd be more inclined to test-drive one. As it stands now, it doesn't meet my wants/needs for 25k-30k bucks.
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,449
    You can get into a 2013 LaCrosse for around 25k and it has leather and a V6. Probably not on your radar but what the heck. I like mine -- smooth and quiet. 25 mpg as well.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,456
    Grad -

    Try and find some of the no haggle dealers in your area. Really makes things enjoyable. In and out in under an hour buying my '13 Accord EX 6MT. No haggle price was $2,000 plus off of sticker and there were absolutely no add ons or additional fees. This was back in Jan when the the 6MT had just started showing up - could probably do much better now as the '14's are around the corner.

    I know these are not near you, but here are a couple in my area.

    http://www.walser.com/index.htm

    You may need to use the chat window for honda prices at walser, but most of the others are listed.

    http://www.bismarckmotorcompany.com/index.htm
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I appreciate the input. The LaCrosse is a nice vehicle, and a good option. However, of everything I've driven, my favorite is still the Ram SLT with the Pentastar and UConnect. It's off-topic, so I hate to expound on it more.

    I'm about to take a new job within the same company that will change my commute from 95 miles daily to about 30. With that reasoning, I can make the case for having a truck with lower mpgs if it's what my heart really wants. I've driven all these midsizers hoping to "talk myself out" of the truck, but nothing has.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Thank you for the links... however I think the seatbelt adjustment and lack of a couple of key features for the money will keep me out of an Accord this go-around.

    And yes, the Ram I'm listing doesn't have cooled seats, but I can get cloth. The Accord with the upgrades I'd want forces you into leather. As a result, I'd want ventilated leather.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,456
    edited August 2013
    Think about a diesel in that Ram? would sure help mpg.

    http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/ecodiesel/
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Probably not. Diesel here is about $0.40/gal higher than regular unleaded. I don't intend to do much/any towing with it; it'll be a highway queen.

    Anyhow; I didn't intend to hijack this thread. Dudley, if you or anyone else would like to chat about the trucks, maybe meet me in the "Help me Choose" forum. I know this isn't the place for "Ram Talk." ;)
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    I knew Buick was stealing mid size sedan sales. Every one I have seen (Buick) in person recently has been sporty, attractive, and has appropriate materials in the interior.

    Many engine choices mirror mid sizer's, such as the 2.5 liter 4 and the 2.0 Turbo available across the line.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • Well, they do (in a way) offer the 2.0T in the Passat, except it is called the CC.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    +++Many engine choices mirror mid sizer's, such as the 2.5 liter 4 and the 2.0 Turbo available across the line. +++

    I've not seen a LaCrosse with a turbo. I thought they only had the 2.4Eco and the 3.6?
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,678
    The CC isn't the same Passat as the regular Passat we have built in TN.

    The CC is very nice, but priced a bit higher. I think of it as the poor-man's Audi A5...if poor people could afford $30+K that is.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    edited August 2013
    Likewise, think of the Sonata as a REALLY poor man's CC. :) And, the Sonata can be had with a 2.0T.
  • A slightly used CC (1 or 2 years old) seems like a good deal at around the $22-25k I see them sold for. A used VW would make me nervous, though.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,678
    " A used VW would make me nervous, though."

    Agreed. I love the CC...and the 2013 has 3 seats in the back, but for some reason when I see a recent model VW being sold I think...it must have some sort of problem.

    When I read the VW problems they always seem severe. Although all the people I know who've owned VW's have never had major problems...reputations are hard to rebuild...

    They have attractive leases...might be a good way to try-it-out.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 2,354
    In 2011 I was car-shopping and looked at a CC. Loved the styling, but was not impressed with the pricing or the VW reputation. Then last year a friend of mine was car shopping and also considered a CC. He took one for a test drive and was fairly underwhelmed, I think it's safe to say. We both ended up in Buick Regals, mine a Turbo, his a GS.

    2014 Cadillac ATS4 2.0T, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    I recently read two articles about the Ram 1500. With the Pentastar V6, a grown man can stand INSIDE the engine bay. That is one big vehicle. I know it claims to have 25 mpg highway, which is great for a 5800 lb truck. There is a new three truck comparo in the September C&D featuring the usual three players. It is on page 59.

    Though the RAM 1500 is off topic, the Pentastar 3.6 liter V6 isn't, as it is offered in the Chrysler 200, which is a mid size sedan. Chrysler has really stepped up to the plate with this powertrain. It is deployed all throughout their model lineup, from the Jeep Wrangler and the Grand Cherokee to the to the Charger, Challenger, Ram, Town and Country, Avenger, etc.

    **Now, speaking of great mileage on an unlikely car, I just read the first track test of the new Corvette Stingray (which replaces the Grand Sport as the "base model" Corvette). GM added a 7th gear to the Tremec three pedal manual, achieving a phenomenal EPA rating of 30 MPG. That's right folks, 30 mpg from a 6.2 liter, 460 HP V8.

    One last side-note. 7th gear is so tall on the new Corvette that theoretically; it could achieve 300 MPH before redline. Wow.

    **C&D September, page 48

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    edited August 2013
    I was speaking in terms of most of the line. The Regal and the Verano offer 2.4 liter and two variants of GM's 2.0 liter turbo. The Regal GS has 270 hp, the Turbo has 220 hp, and the base has the 2.4 with (yawn) 182 hp.

    The new Lacrosse shares the Epsilon 2 platform with the Cadillac XTS and the new Impala. At $33,000 for a base 2.4 liter liter (mild) Hybrid, it is a real stretch to step up to this car from a fully loaded mid size, especially to get into the 3.6 liter which boasts 303 HP. That will run you $40,000. If I think about it, I would rather have a loaded Accord V6 or an Optima SX (both blue color) than a base Lacrosse any day of the week. Frankly, the Lacrosse is an "old people's car" in my mind. No offense, but every time I see one a little old lady is driving it.

    In keeping with that thought, I think the Regal and the Verano are the most likely sedans to take a few sales from the mid size segment. I would be pleased to own a Regal GS.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,449
    You can buy a new lacrosse with leather and V6 for 25K.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    edited August 2013
    No you cannot. Even with discounts and haggling to consider, you are not going to get a new, 2013 Lacrosse V6 and leather for $25,000. A truly great, "unusually low" negotiated price is $30,829.

    No way. Show me a buyers order and a contract. Really. No way. That would mean getting a Regal GS for $22,500 and a Verano for $21,000.

    I don't think so. Not even on December 30th in sub zero Buffalo are you gonna get that deal.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,449
    Check out autotrader. there are a bunch at 25k with leather. They say they are the 4 cylinder but if you click for more details, it's the 6. One is 8 miles from me. Buick is offering huge discounts in the St. Louis area. But the key here is that you don't like the LaCrosse and I respect that. Everyone is entitled to their own preferences but it appears Buick is dumping the LaCrosse to increase sales. A friend of mine is in sales and he said the dealers get big incentives for each car if they sell a certain number per month. They make very little on the sale but make up for it with a big check from GM at the end of the month. Of course, depreciation on these cars will be hideous so overall, you might be better off with an Accord EX-L in the long run.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    edited August 2013
    I actually like the car a great deal. It is Buick's top of the line sedan. I will put it this way. If you find a $25,000 Lacrosse 3.6 w/ leather (Conveinience Group 1) I will take one for myself and another for my wife.

    what you saw was the Lacrosse leather 2.4 hybrid 4 cyl.

    Auto trader list=32,390. Actual price = $28,783, and that is the leather 4 cyl.

    Furthermore, the only 3.6 liter GM car you can get new for $25,000 is a Camaro base.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,449
    How about one for me as long as you're buying. I did see a V6 leather for 27366 --laurabuick stock #131398. The 25k ones were either 4cyl or hail damaged.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,678
    Yeah, the VW was more expensive than the Mazda 6 I was comparing at the time, but somehow it 'spoke' to me and seemed worth the premium (I didn't end up buying it). The Buick wasn't out when I initially drove the CC. I love the Buick styling but haven't had the opportunity to drive one.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    The CC is a great looking car. Honestly I don't know much about it, as I share in the sentiment about not buying a used VW...ever.

    I have a dear friend who recently re-married, and they were looking for a new car for her. At least new to them. I took the time to write up a few recommendations for them.

    They showed up this morning all proud of their used 2004 Jetta 1.8T with 85,000 mile. Already the sunroof doesn't work and a headlight is out.

    I could barely hide my disappointment. "salesman said this is a great car".

    Uggggh.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,449
    I really like the looks of the CC but once I sat in one I found that getting in and out was a big problem for me.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    LOL. My mom (75) just falls into my car. All of us, every single person in my family, young or old, tall or short, hates the passenger seating position in my car.

    Several owners on the Optima Forums web site have installed shims and longer bolts (high strength, heat treated stainless steel) and have raised the height by about an inch. Total cost= $20. I think it is a good idea.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    You can get a screaming deal on any Sonata right now.
    Almost $3K off msrp AND 0% for 60 months on the best lineup - 4 cyl. - turbo - Hybrid - of mid sized sedans available.
    Awesome lineup from the Koreans!!
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