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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Well, that sure doesn't look like a wagon. Won't haul like a wagon, either. Actually it looks quite a bit like my Elantra GT--bigger and a bit sleeker though.

    Someone out there thinks Americans won't buy a car like this unless it doesn't look like a wagon. I don't think the Mazda6 wagon sold very well, did it? Really practical, though.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    That's the one!. The slope in the back is the thing I don't like. It cuts down on the ability to carry large or longer square boxes and it just looks like a Pinto to me. Maybe the slope, ala Prius style, makes for a lot better aerodynamics for better mpg. I don't know but for usefulness I would also prefer the European Accord station wagon.

    I agree that the Mazda6 station wagon didn't seem to sell that well but maybe it was a bit before it's time.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Thanks for the correction. That thing is awful, but then those that have tried to sell wagons and hatchbacks that look okay or even good have pretty much failed in the US. Mazda6 wagon and hatchback were basically replaced by one or the other of those less attractive CX vehicles.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    i did my homework, it just didn't work out for some reason. when i put a set of the original style tires back on after a month the mileage went up to 28, but not back to 30. i hope it works out for you.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Here is an example of an attractive hatch version of a midsize sedan, unlike that Accord:

  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Isn't that the same basic shape as the Cross tour? It slopes down in the rear, just like the CT. I will agree that this car looks more up-scale, but it probably cost twice as much as the CT? It also looks better than any other car in this class, and it should for the price.
  • image

    Yup, Crosstour, the stuff dreams are made of alright. How did we go this far backwards? The previous generation Mazda6 hatch was pretty good looking IMHO.

    Sloping the back like that hurts cargo capacity. That was the limitation of this styled wagon:
  • Attractive?


    Maybe I'm the minority here, but this isn't attractive to me. Below are three vehicles which are more simple, less overstlyed, and to me, a much cleaner, more inherently attractive design.


    Call me crazy, the more basic lines, the less funky rear-ends, and the sharper edges look better to me than the new Bimmer front end swoops and rear-end droops.

    And the Crosstour? Well, I'll withold judgment until I see it, but I don't have high hopes.
  • That color choice is especially poor but yeah I am with you there.

    Honda has had a rough time lately when the new model is uglier than the outgoing model. This seems to be more affecting the Acura division. but the current Civic brought the return of the dustbuster front we haven't seen since the Lumina APV. The best thing the FIt has going for it is once inside, you can't see the outside. Even the '92 Civic was much more Shamoo-like than the outgoing version (the Chevy Caprice did the same thing at that point).

    I am trying to think of another brand with that affliction right now; maybe BMW? I am much less a fan of the current Focus compared the the previous generation, but new Taurus kicks butt of old Taurus, Fusion doesn't seem to be any worse...the new Buick Lexus looks better than the outgoing one...
  • To get us back on topic, I'll simply say that I like the current Civic better than the previous one, but I had to warm up to it.

    We should give awards, like a Who's Who of midsize cars.

    Most Likely To Succeed in Sales
    Best Looking
    Smartest Value Buy
    Most Athletic
    Most Brand Spirit

    Things of that nature.

    Your pics and new categories? :shades:
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    "Isn't that the same basic shape as the Cross tour?"

    Yeah, that was really the point...that the same basic shape in terms of the sloping rear, without looking awful. While a BMW is much pricier, a car does not have to cost a lot to look good (as evidenced by the prior generation of the Mazda3 and Mazda6, for example)..
  • stephen987stephen987 Posts: 1,994
    Most Likely To Succeed in Sales: Toyota Camry. Old habits are hard to break, despite considerable evidence that Hyundai actually builds better Toyotas than Toyota does.

    Best Looking: Entirely subjective, but I'll nominate the Chevy Malibu. It offers conservative good looks in the lower line models, and really attractive interior styling in the upper levels. Most midsize customers aren't looking for drama--just good taste, and here the Malibu is a very good choice.

    Smartest Value Buy: There are a lot of choices here. As tempted as I am by the big warranty and fat discounts offered by Hyundai and Kia, I'd say the Ford Fusion is my top pic in this category. Good mpg and reliability don't hurt either.

    Most Athletic: Tough call. I haven't seen any final reviews of the 2010 Legacy, whose previous editions have been strong contenders in this category. For now, it's probably the Nissan Altima, but there's a lot of action in this category.

    Most Brand Spirit: Zoom zoom. They haven't marketed it very effectively, but the Mazda 6 fits nicely in a brand image that emphasizes affordable entertainment. The Nissan Altima would be a good fit here, if Nissan's lower-level offerings had the same spirit, but they don't come close.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Most Likely To Succeed in Sales: Kind of depends what is meant by "succeed". If it's sheer volume, I don't see the Camry being unseated anytime soon, especially since a new Camry will be coming before a new Accord. If it's increase in sales, I'd go for the Fusion, or maybe the new Legacy.

    Best Looking: Mazda6, of the currently available cars.

    Smartest Value Buy: Optima

    Most Athletic: Passat

    Most Brand Spirit: For now, the Accord. But I think the 2011 Sonata may be a defining moment for Hyundai as a brand.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    Succeed in Sales: Camry. Just too far ahead in sales now and I think they're learning some lessons and will correct a lot of the quality and interior problems.
    Best Looking: Fusion Sport
    Smartest Value Buy: Fusion. The Optima/Sonata would be first only if one holds onto for many many years and that is too big of caveat. The Fusion would be a good buy both on the shorter and long term.
    Most Athletic: Mazda6
    Most Brand Spirit: Not really sure what this means. I would lean towards the Mazda6 for this one as well.
  • Most Likely to succeed in sales: This is a very tough call. For now, I'd say Camry, but I think this previous generation may have scared away some of the Camryites that have followed it for previous years. Currently, I think the Malibu, Mazda6, and Fusion may be making some headway, but they're all far from being class leaders.

    Best Looking: Mazda6. Large but stylish, both inside and out. That being said, the latest generation of Accord has steadily grown on me as well... especially the Coupe.

    Smartest Value: Sonata. Price, price, price, and a very nice list of features for not a lot of money.

    Most Athletic: Altima. Gas 'er up and let 'er rip! Not the fastest 0-60, not the largest (probably the smallest in this class), and not the most ornate interior, but as soon as you flip it into drive, forget about everything else... just drive. This car is a ball on the twisties (for a FWD car.)

    Most Brand Spirit: Wow... that's a tough one. Either Mazda or VW. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to go with VW since Mazda still has the dreaded Tribute and B-class trucks in their recent history. That killed it for them. VW embodies class and driving dynamics rolled into a very nice package. However, you're going to pay for the "spirit."

    Hmmmmmm... I'm going to add a few categories:

    Most Disappointing: The only car that has no character at all is the Dodge twins: Avenger and Sebring. Lackluster engines, no driving dynamics (not very comfortable either), lacking interior, poor reliability record... I'm not sure these cars have anything going for them... other than price.

    Best for Long Trips: Either Sonata or Camry. If you're being totted to the beach 300 miles away, and you have to be in the back seat of one midsize sedan, I would really LOVE to have the reclining back seats and plush ride of the Camry.

    Most Upscale Interior: Accord. The interior looks like it belongs in a car that costs about $5-10k more, and the interior size is nothing short of huge. Feel like you're driving a luxury car for a midsize price.

    Most Upscale Exterior: Tough one here: Either the Accord of the Mazda 6. Both look like they should cost more than they do.

    Most Improved: Malibu. Much larger, better driving dynamics, more competent engines, etc. Nearly everything on the Malibu now competes with the best in the class. The few short comings that this car has are just enough to keep it out of the big Japanese 3, but it's a very welcome improvement from GM.

    Best All Around: This is another very tough one. I have to say its either the Accord or the Altima. Here's what I think.

    Accord: Spacious, lively, high feature content, comfortable, and easy to live with. Unfortunately, a few shortcomings (below average gas mileage on 4-cyl, solid folding back seat, no automatic w/ manual mode, small trunk) keep it from being perfect in this class.

    Altima: Smaller in dimensions but very usable space inside. Large trunk for its size, well tuned CVT transmission w/ manual mode, Powerful 4-cyl, etc. This car has a lot to offer. Still, it's on the smaller size in this class, and the interior is a little austere (but well layed out.) This is a fun little car that has lots of practical value as well.

  • is this new 2010 Saab 9-5 Aero considered a midsize rig? This will come with a couple of different V6 diesel variants (a V6 turbo diesel 300 hp) and a 4-cyl. offering, but last time I looked we were not a very diesel friendly environment, even allowing their import here in the States.


    2010 Saab 9-5 Aero

    Saab is teetering on bankruptcy, too, and now one of the Chinese companies has taken them on, BAIC. For another shot or two at solvency.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Maybe mid-sized, but not mid-priced which is the focus of this discussion. The 9-5 is more in the luxury sedan class.
  • is mid-priced the reason for the 2.0 label on this discussion? Or does that stand for "this is the 2nd go-around for this discussion, if you guys screw up this time and tank this thing, we're not gonna re-visit it!"

    This new Saab 9-5 Aero is an attractive design, if you look at some of the other angles it almost has an Audi look it, not surprisingly with the European connection being there.

    It's at Frankfurt, I'll be watching for any updates on it. It very well may cost in the upper midsize echelons of pricing, though, if Saab history plays on through normally.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    The latter. :)

    But it's understood from the other cars in the discussion that this is about the "family sedans", not luxury sedans.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    It's funny. I consider Infiniti G37 and Acura TL to be mid-size luxury cars but most "auto writers" usually refer to them as "near luxury"(don't really know what they consider luxury). I personally would consider the Saab 9-3 to be at the upper end of the mid-sized family sedans, kind of like the Passat. It's street price is around the mid to upper twenties which is what a decked out Camry V6 XLE or similar Accord or Mazda6 would be at street prices. It is almost impossible to get an Acura, BMW or Infiniti for below $33-35k street price which is definitely luxury prices compared to what we talk about here.
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