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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    My vote would be for the Legacy even though it is different than all the rest by way of the standard all wheel drive.

    I totally agree about the cars to the right and on their individual pages. They change them way too quick.
    However, do a comparison on the main Edmunds page of two cars, one being the 2009 Jetta TDI. The window stickers with the EPA mpg ratings for the TDI have been out for what, a year now, and Edmunds is still researching it????? I sent them an email about it about 9 months ago and they said they were working on it.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    In case there are any manual-transmission drivers out there that have their eye on the Altima, you'd better get a '09 while you still can!

    I've seen from more than a couple sources that for '10, the Altima sedan is losing the 6-speed manual COMPLETELY! This includes the lower-model 2.5 models, and the 3.5 SE (which is named the 3.5 SR for '10). And I thought Mazda was bad for dropping the manual on their V6 models...

    This leads me to two conclusions:
    1. The 6-speed manual is returning to the Maxima! (I know, wishful thinking... :P )
    2. Nissan has given up on the "4DSC" designation for everything they sell (a shame...)
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Could it be that people just don't want a manual anymore? Considering that automatics now exceed manuals for fuel economy, are smoother shifting and have as many if not more gears than manuals, plus they have become more reliable, that manuals are passe' in anything other than a Miata. I used to drive an 18 wheeler, and trust me, the last thing I want to do now is push a clutch in while sitting in traffic.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,666
    The majority of drivers stopped wanting manuals in sedans years ago (decades?). The fuel economy and cost advantages are gone so it's just personal preference now. Most mfrs offer it here in the U.S. because they sell more of them in other countries, especially in Europe. It would be hard to cost justify doing a manual just for the U.S. because the volume is so low.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    I think that it's kinda fun driving a manual,but I think it depends on what manual it is.I test drove a Fit with a manual, and hated the tranny.It was hard to find the gears.When I drove an older Dodge with a 5 speed,it was a blast.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Posts: 936
    You know what I'm gonna say,don't you Backy.....Optima..
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Wait a minute while I sit down and catch my breath. ;)
  • dan1dan1 Posts: 76
    My 2 cents headlights should accent the front of a car not dominate it, the smaller they are the better. If you have dress up a boring design with goofy headlights like on the Altima (just my opinion) then you have bigger problems. Also never mistake what is in for what looks good, they are often not the same thing.
  • So it looks like the last gen Maxima (which is kind of a miss) and doesn't have a manual trans option...that's not too hard to kick off my shopping list. Next...
  • Thanks to everybody who responded! I've taken a lot of useful info from your comments and I'll be able to base a solid criteria around them. So thanks and I hope the American car market strengthens and grows in the near future.
    :)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I don't know if it the size or just that they stretch back to much into the side or top of the fenders, but I don't like many current headlight designs. I want headlights to confine them mostly to the front of the car, like on the old Mazda6 or the new Fusion...same with the tailights, keep them on the rear and of the sides of the car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    .same with the tailights, keep them on the rear and of the sides of the car.

    Uhm... where else would they be, on a mid-sized sedan? :confuse:

    Or did you mean "off" the sides of the car? I see the logic of having the tail lamps extend to the sides--allows the side markers to be integrated into the tail lamps, and maybe prevent additional holes in the body (for side markers). That's been done on cars for a long, long time.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    yeah "off"...as in not like the Altima and Mazda6 have done. Integrating side marker can be done without going as far as they have.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    I got my first good look at the 2010 Legacy today. My vantage point was from above and looking at the side and rear, and a close-up look at the rear and side also. From that angle, it would be very difficult to tell the car from an Accord except for the tail lamp extensions on the trunk lid (and the Legacy badge on the trunk of course). Without those extensions, the rear would look almost identical to the Accord's. And the side is a near-duplicate also, except the Accord has the character line that runs through the door handles. The greenhouses look identical, with the BMW-esque C-pillars, and both have chrome moldings surrounding the windows. But I thought it was a handsome-looking car, in a classic, conservative way. (The fact it was black added to the conservative appearance.) Someone who doesn't like the more avant-garde styling of cars like the Mazda6 and the 2011 Sonata might prefer the Legacy's looks.

    However, be forewarned that the trunk opening is very shallow front to back--as on most sedans these days.
  • I saw the Outback Wagon on the road last night. I thought it was a Tribecca at first when I saw the front. Its huge. I would like to see if they made any improvements to the back seat and its child carrying capability, but so far it looks pretty blandatastc in a sea of blantastic offerings. It makes our Legacy wagon look like a 90s Civic wagon in size comparison.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Yes, the Outback looks more like a crossover SUV now than a station wagon. Much more muscular. No longer like a wagon variant of the Legacy. The Outback looks to me like a 5/4s scale Forester--not a bad thing IMO.
  • The Outback looks to me like a 5/4s scale Forester--not a bad thing IMO.

    And definitely not a bad thing for VW and Audi, that actually offer wagons, or Ford and Honda, which offer 5 seat SUVs that can more effectively compete against the new Outback.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    The Passat is and was not a direct competitor of the Outback, as the Passat doesn't offer AWD. As for Ford's SUVs, yes, the Outback is now more directly against the Edge than it was before. Honda has nothing directly comparable to the Outback. The CR-V competes with the Forester, and the Pilot is an 8-passenger SUV. As for the Audi A6 wagon.... it starts at $53k. Which puts it in a totally different market than the Outback.

    Anyway... how many Passat wagons does VW sell in a year? Maybe one reason Subaru went to a SUV design for the new Outback is that they found that not many folks wanted an AWD station wagon. If they are going to buy a vehicle of that size, why not get something taller, with more cargo capacity?
  • As for Ford's SUVs, yes, the Outback is now more directly against the Edge than it was before. Honda has nothing directly comparable to the Outback. The CR-V competes with the Forester, and the Pilot is an 8-passenger SUV.

    How different are these in real life? You don't think people who look at an Outback would cross shop the CRV, or the Pilot or Odyssey for that matter?

    Anyway... how many Passat wagons does VW sell in a year? Maybe one reason Subaru went to a SUV design for the new Outback is that they found that not many folks wanted an AWD station wagon.

    How many do they have to sell? How big is the market?

    If they are going to buy a vehicle of that size, why not get something taller, with more cargo capacity?

    Of what size? If its bigger, its not the same size. And from the specs, the vehicle is taller for ground clearance, not that much taller inside. If I wanted something "taller" I would go for the Mazda5 or upcoming Grand C-max thing. Its too bad Honda did the "hatchback" with the Accord and not the wagon.

    I don't know, as an owner of an '05 Legacy wagon that we love, I think the new Outback is a miss for me.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    How different are these in real life? You don't think people who look at an Outback would cross shop the CRV, or the Pilot or Odyssey for that matter?

    Someone looking at the Outback would most likely NOT cross-shop the CR-V, which is much smaller. (If there were looking at the Forester, then yes the CR-V would be a natural comparo.) It's possible folks looking for an Outback might cross-shop the Pilot, but more likely would cross-shop other five-seat crossover SUVs like the Edge and Equinox. Someone looking for more seating would logically cross-shop the Pilot, Traverse/Acadia/Enclave, and other 7+ seat crossover SUVs. I really don't think someone shopping for an Outback would cross-shop a FWD minivan like the Odyssey. Could it happen? Sure, there's always an exception. But the Outback and minivans like the Ody are much different kinds of vehicles.

    How many do they have to sell? How big is the market?

    Exactly. Apparently not as big as the market for SUV-type crossovers. I expect Subaru and other automakers have studied the market pretty closely. How many AWD station wagons starting in the $20s are there?

    Of what size? If its bigger, its not the same size.


    I meant longer, of course.

    The Mazda5 is not available in AWD, is it? If someone wants something in AWD that's REALLY tall, they could go for a big SUV like the Travcadiclave or an AWD minivan like the Sienna (actually I think that's the only AWD minivan left).

    Better save your money for an A6, I guess. ;)
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