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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,678
    I see a Hummer every morning in our parking lot. The vehicle hasn't won any 'hearts' in our office as the woman have labeled the man driving it "slimy"...
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    But for apprx how many miles/(minutes?) would it show that, if traffic conditions allowed? And of course at some point in that gradually dropping scale ratio, it will accelerate the drop to 0 mpg as the engine then becomes not only the car motivator but battery charger both at the same time. I think this period must be when some owners (or rather some shoppers who opted not to purchase...or other road users following ones at times) complain that the car doesn't have enough umph at times. Because when you have a good battery charge, the torque specs suggest that the Prius should have plenty of get-up-n-go most times for its size and weight.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    LMAOOOOOOOOOO

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    edited October 2013
    Will the battery last for 2 hours of very, very slow traffic and run the A/C as well? How long will a Prius will run on battery only, in those conditions?

    (Yes I know it is a Prius question....but they do steal business from the mid-size market as they are priced fairly competitively).

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,450
    I get the top mpg in stop and go traffic. Worst one I was in was for 20 minutes. I should also add that I have no idea how this works as far as battery power vs gas. I'm not at all disappointed in the cars acceleration. Entering the interstate or passing has been fine. Overall I get in the high forties without hyper miling.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    I don't think that is a bad combo!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,916
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  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    edited October 2013
    So, I tried it out after a long hiatus. I used it all day, but on my way home from a particularly tiring evening fixing a difficult clients computer, I had no patience for it. It wont downshift when I want it to. Deep stabs of the throttle must be applied, and it bogs down for too long even when I floor it. It just isn't for me, and I don't think the car likes it much either...lurching and struggling is just not classy behavior for such a smooth shifting 6 speed.

    When I switched it off it was like a breath of fresh air. I like the fact that it can achieve 30 plus mph on long trips, and it can offer good city mpg if you are patient enough with traffic, and the ECO programming. I would use it if I lived in the country, or the mid west where there is more space than people and traffic is very light, but here in the bustling east coast megalopolis, I would rather get home with as much alacrity as possible, with the least amount of frustration, and the most driving pleasure possible. I still get 22 mpg average, and that is fine with me.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,678
    What vehicle is this?

    I had a similar experience with an IS350...I had to leave it in sport mode. The default felt like a corolla driving through sand. Actually felt my blood pressure rise; very annoying.
  • vservser Posts: 48
    IMHO, I've narrowed down my search two or three cars. I will still attempt to take an extended drive in each as a last qualifier.

    I can get a Titanium Fusion with Nav, Sunroof, Driver Assist, and H spoke wheels, FWD for 33,600 OTD. Or, I can get a Toyota Avalon Limited loaded except for wireless charging tech package for 35,500 plus taxes and destination. That'll probably equal 39,000 OTD. I've looked t the Kia, and could get a 2.0 Turbo loaded for 30,000. In my mind the Avalon will be worth 10k after 7 years whereas the Kia will not. That's the difference between those two.

    But is the Avalon worth 5 or 6 k more than the fusion. Help me spend my money!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    edited October 2013
    Buy the one you like. You want to feel good about looking at and driving that car every day.
    If money is the overriding factor, buy the Avalon. They are a nice car and sell in small numbers. Not so much competition when you go to sell it.
    I'm assuming you aren't going to take the difference in price, invest it, and make a fortune.
  • ahightowerahightower TXPosts: 512
    edited October 2013
    I do not use Eco mode in my accord any more. Manual transmission allows more control over shifts, but the throttle response is dull and irritating, the weakened AC was unpleasant (when I say full blast cold, I mean full blast cold dammit), and I have not noticed any significant improvement in mpg with Eco anyway. Maybe a longer and more scientific test is in order but to heck with that. I bought the accord because of the sweet engine and transmission. Might as well enjoy the car's "natural" character.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 1,033
    I use Eco mode exclusively on my Accord. I don't really notice a difference big enough to overcome the fuel economy I get. The car is powerful and smooth. I even drove it over the mountains to DC last week and it was great. I prefer lower AC anyway so not a factor. Everyone has different preferences.
  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,450
    You can cross shop the Avalon with the Buick Lacrosse.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    From IVAN 99: "What vehicle is this?"

    "I had a similar experience with an IS350...I had to leave it in sport mode. The default felt like a corolla driving through sand. Actually felt my blood pressure rise; very annoying"

    2012 Optima EX. Driving a Corolla through sand is a very apt metaphor. I missed a merge into traffic because it wouldn't downshift, and right when I let off the gas having missed it, the car suddenly lurched forward and I almost hit someone. Not good.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,251
    In my mind the Avalon will be worth 10k after 7 years whereas the Kia will not. That's the difference between those two.

    You're stating the Avalon will basically cost $9K more than the Kia to buy. The question is then not what the Kia & Avalon will be worth after 7 years but will the Avalon still be worth $9K more (or greater) after 7 years. If the Avalon is worth $10K and the Kia only worth $4K, the Avalon will have cost $3K more to own (only considering purchase & selling prices; operating costs are another factor).
    Avalon: $39K-10K=$29K net cost
    Kia: $30K-4K=$26K net cost

    Really, though, it shouldn't matter as long as you can afford it. As another poster said, buy the car you like. Or, as I say it, buy the car you want to drive, not the car you want to sell.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    edited October 2013
    You could cross shop the Cadenza and the Azera, but honestly push comes to shove the Avalon is getting better reviews, good resale value, a very pretty exterior, and a really swanky interior.

    The Fusion 2.0 E/B Titanium is really nice if you can haggle down to 29,990. I would not pay $33 k for it, especially when I just saw a 199/mo lease deal on the Fusion yesterday. Of course it would not be on a fully loaded Fusion for 199 but it does show that Ford is now willing to deal.

    There is another choice. The VW CC is also 30 to 37 k. It is absolutely gorgeous, it is comparable size between mid-size and large sedans on the outside, (but does have less headroom in the back) and is a step up from the Passat IMHO. I think you should go drive one before you commit.

    Here is an excerpt from the Edmund's review of the 2013:

    "The CC is a step above most other midsize sedans. You can see it in profile, as it combines the lower body of a sedan with the tight roof line of a coupe. It's fractionally smaller inside and more expensive overall than the conventional Passat sedan, but it also boasts higher-quality construction, a more advanced base engine, sharper driving dynamics, better overall refinement and sleeker style. It also costs considerably more, as this is an entry-level luxury car with a commensurate level of comfort and convenience features."

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 2,355
    That Edmunds CC review seems a bit of an outlier compared to others I have read and more importantly, the reactions of those I know who have either driven or bought one. I looked at one a couple of years ago when I was in the market and while I liked the styling, it was very tight and did not have much usable space for the size of the vehicle. A friend seriously considered one and dismissed it after a test drive, finding it underwhelming. A coworker owned one and hated it due to poor gas mileage and the confined feeling she had when driving it.

    I would avoid the Fusion as they are everywhere and you don't want to spend $30K on what is perceived as a rental car. I do like the Optima but only if you get it for the right price as it is still a Kiyundai and their long-term value is still an open question. If you are shopping Avalon, then I would also suggest a drive in the Lacrosse or new Impala.

    2014 Cadillac ATS4 2.0T, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Since when is the Fusion considered a "rental car"? I think only the old Impala would fit that category.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Since there's tons of them in rental fleets, e.g. Hertz. Hence, a rental car. Maybe not as many of the new Fusions in rental fleets yet, but certainly the first-gen Fusion was common as a rental.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    edited October 2013
    I have noticed a lot of Fusions used as cabs here. There are two huge cab companies out of Arlington/ Falls Church, and their fleet of Crown Vic's were getting very long in the tooth. The Police Department in Fairfax County are now using Ford Taurussusses, and I think they look cool. I also know they have the SHO motor in them with 365 HP.

    Red Top already has 58 older Fusions, so they must be continuing their relationship with Ford and buying new ones. I found the article in the Washington Business Journal. See it here:
    http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/morning_call/2013/04/new-taxicab-comes-to-- arlington.html
    I think it says something good about the durability of the car if cab companies are buying them. I wonder what engine they prefer? I would guess 2.5.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    edited October 2013
    I want to go drive the new Impala. I just like the way it looks. That blue color with the alloys just does it for me. I know it doesn't break new ground, but it has that "crouching and ready to pounce" look to it. My car has the same kind of thing going on in the hind section. Here is a good picture of the one I would drive: http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Chevrolet/northamerica/usa/nscwebsite/en/Ho- me/Chevy%20Culture/All%20Stories/All%20New%202014%20Impala%20Revealed/01-images/- 2012-culture-news-2014-impala-mh-1-3-1280x600.jpg

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Pretty sure there are more Hyundais, Kias and Camrys in rental fleets than Fusions. A lot of Fusion fleet sales are taxi and government use, not rental cars.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I don't see too many Sonatas and Optimas in rental car lots these days, I saw a lot more with the previous-generation cars. I see a lot of Camrys and Malibus. But the question wasn't about number of rental cars, it was about whether the Fusion is a "rental car". And it is. Which doesn't make it a bad car, does it?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    By that logic a Jaguar and almost every other vehicle ever made is a "rental car" because somewhere you can rent one. I traveled a lot earlier this year and with Hertz I never saw a single Fusion, old or new. And I wanted one.

    Calling something a "rental car" implies that its primary purpose is to be a rental and that can only be attributed to the old Impala at this point.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    edited October 2013
    Oh Jeez, so what! It's like you guys are offended. I could care less if my car is sold in rental fleets. I would be equally pleased to have a Fusion, Sonata, or a Optima after a long cramped flight. I actually like all three just fine. They are all wayyyyy better than getting an old Impala, Avenger, and ESPECIALLY the awful-in-every-way Caliber. The Caliber is the WORST rental car I have ever driven. 2.0 liter/ CVT with the alluring sound of farm machinery in the engine bay. Loud, painful motor-boarding dreadful vile piece of crap.

    I posted over a month ago about chatting up a guy with a Fusion at the gas station and he said it was a rental. It had small alloys and cloth seats, but was very nice inside. Great materials and still very stylish. Put a tint on it and some 18' wheels an no one would know it was ever a rental.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 2,355
    My comment was based on my experience this week renting in Norfolk. The Dollar line was adjacent to the Hertz line, and all Hertz seemed to have there were Fusions, both the old and new styles.

    Nothing wrong with rental cars - heck, my 2002 Intrigue was a Certified used car I bought in '03 that was ex-Avis. I liked it. But I didn't pay $30K for it either.

    I agree that the purchase should be based on the car you like best for the money you're willing to spend.

    2014 Cadillac ATS4 2.0T, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,338
    It was good of you to clarify. Rental or not these cars are expensive. A nice in between model is perfect for most drivers. I just can't make myself like a car enough to pay over $25,000. It is just out of my comfort zone.

    I read an article in C/D (sorry to keep using references from them, but I have been a subscriber since 1987), that said anyone buying a car more expensive than $25,000 is making a very emotional decision. There is something about the car that they LOVE, almost like a human.

    I enjoy that feeling about my car. I still look back as I am walking away in parking lots, I still use the shirt I am wearing to wipe smudges off the window, and I hope I never stop doing either.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • vservser Posts: 48
    Smthg to be said abt buying from an emotional standpoint. Very interesting.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    C/D's overall Verdict on the Fusion, from their recent comparo of mid-sized sedans, was: "Mr. Bond, your rental car is ready."

    See, even James Bond doesn't have a problem being seen in a Fusion rental! :)
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