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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • vservser Posts: 48
    Bingo! There in lies the quandary. Sporty or Classier. I'm also tempted by the sx turbo in the optima.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,260
    it's a turbo 4, not a 6.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,186
    My wife had a 96 Taurus too. A 24v but not the SHO. Did your V8 SHO have the cam sprocket issue? This was back when a Taurus was a mid size. Ford just one day stopped making Taurus's of any kind. I never understood that. They should have kept perfecting it IMO. Instead it became the darling of the rental industry.

    I am not sure what exactly happened to my engine, just that it was not worth fixing after it seized completely. It was 10 years old when that happened. After that, wife drove the gold colored '96 with the tan leather...and you guessed it...dual exhaust. We were Ford people for a bit.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,186
    Pretty much my feelings exactly. With the big three brands it seems to be always something. I was so sick of being disappointed.

    So I was only considering Accord or Sonata, until I got stuck on the Optima. It is just so well put together. It doesn't creak or rattle. It makes nice engine noises and there is no NVH to speak of.

    For me, even though I like the new Impala and think that the Fusion is pretty....I would not buy big three again. I want my car at home, not at the dealer.
  • vservser Posts: 48
    I guess I meant lx not sxl
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,186
    Dude. It is a large family sedan. It is the top of the line Toyota, and and the Camry is a step down.

    With that said, I have been pining for a board called "Modern Mainstream Sedans" that would cover vehicles between 18k and 40k, while leaving this board intact. I have sent Kristie a few e-mails about it.

    If anyone else would like that to happen, please by all means contact her as well.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,830
    No, no... please don't contact me about creating new discussions. That's something any member can do, and it's not a very good use of my time.

    You're welcome to create any discussion you think might be of interest, as long as it doesn't duplicate existing discussion(s). You can do that on the main Sedans board: http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ee9e22f/

    There's already a Mainstream Large Sedans discussion, a Compact Sedans discussion, and a Low-End Sedans discussion (though we may need to adjust the low-end price due to inflation).

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,186
    Oh, I am so sorry! I wasn't aware of that!

    My bad!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,830
    No biggie :) I didn't jump in to chastise you, but to fend off excess emails, 'specially on a Monday!

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    Dude, the Taurus is a large car too, Guess what? It has less passenger space than the Fusion. The larger trunk puts it in the large category.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,186
    Yes, the current model is. C/D said to "avoid the Taurus, the Fusion has more interior space, gets better F/E, rides better, and costs less."
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    If by H spoke wheels, you mean the 19 inch dark stainless, I have them and the tires are pretty pricey, if you are going to replace them with the same ones.
  • vservser Posts: 48
    I didn't like the Taurus any way. I'm setting up an overnight on an Optima. Going to concentrate on the ride. The look and interior are good. Except the back seat is small. And I'd have to get over the Kia badge. My gut tells me I could get an SX Turbo w tech for 28. The Fusion would be 33. The optima is very nice looking.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    The first time I saw a current Optima, I thought it was a Jaguar.
  • vservser Posts: 48
    The market is crazy. I guess that's why u can get a better price on it...bc of the lack of a track record.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    With any car, it's pretty important to find a good dealership service department for after the sale.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,186
    Hyundai/Kia has been selling the 2011 - 2014 Sonata/Optima since 2010. Like you I was wary of a lack of track record on the Optima, which is why I made sure I bought the 2012 model instead of say an early 2011 example.

    The only problem the 2011 models had was a strut issue that caused the car to pull to the left. Kia recalled 38,000 Optima's and replaced the front strut's under warranty.

    My car has had no issues whatsoever. If you don't like the Kia badge...then you are in luck. You can buy "K" badges for $54.00 that cover every Kia badge on the car, including the ones on the wheels and the one on the steering wheel.
    You can buy these OEM style badges on eBay here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-pcs-3D-K-Speed-Badge-Emblem-Set-Grille-Trunk-Steering-- Wheel-Rims-Kia-K5-/131016126460?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%- 3A2012%7CMake%3AKia%7CModel%3AOptima&hash=item1e812b6ffc&vxp=mtr
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,186
    explorerx4: "The first time I saw a current Optima, I thought it was a Jaguar"

    You are not the first one to say that. C/D May 2012 mid size comparo said that the Optima's styling/lines were "subtle, like a Jag".

    Then, in the March 2013 issue, While testing the Jag XF 2.0T, they said "the Optima's 2.0T performed better than the Jag's. (It also has 34 more horsepower, and costs 30 grand less).
  • jplatt2jplatt2 Posts: 24
    “The EPA determines what size vehicles are, regardless of what we think.”

    Totally disagree, what we think counts just the same
    .
    If a car wash wants to charge extra for “large” cars, and sets the definition as any car at least as large as an Avalon, that is their right. If you sued them because you believe you should be charged the “mid-size” price and used the argument that the EPA considers it a mid-size car, I assure you that you would lose your case.

    The EPA established their own arbitrary definition (which they could change any time they want) for their own purposes.

    How about if you try looking for fruit related recipes at a cooking website. If you selected “Fruit Recipes”, you would expect to see recipes for blueberry pie, applesauce, etc. Would you want to see recipes for pea soup and green bean casserole? Well, according to botanists, peas and beans are fruit. And unlike the EPA’s arbitrary definition, no one can argue that a pea or bean is not actually a fruit.

    Guess things would be clearer if the forums were “Fruit Recipes Excluding Plants that are Fruits but which 95% of People Consider Vegetables” and “Cars that 95% of People Consider as Cars Marketed as “Mid-Size” so until those exist, you can place your Avalon posts in the Mid-Size Sedan forum and your pea soup recipe in the Fruit Recipe forum :)
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,186
    edited October 2013
    How do we decide if fruit is mid size, or large? Does the EPA decide that too, or Department of Agriculture? Wait, weren't we talking about cars? "KERPOW!" (my head exploded)
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 221
    LOL! cski - ur going to have to clean up that mess yourself - no help from the EPA.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,186
    Don't even get me started about tomatoes.......
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    edited October 2013
    Well, the Avalon is like a Tomato. In reality a mid size(fruit) but officially classified by the government as large (vegetable).
    I really enjoyed your post, although I had to read it a few times to figure it out.
    It leads me to post something I've been thinking about.
    If you drove an Avalon and a Fusion into a pool, which one would displace more water? :)
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,186
    edited October 2013
    V8 Fruit Fusion will float. Ford Fusion will not.

    Tomato will float. Avalon will not.

    Tomatoes are considered fruit

    V8 Fusion is both fruit, vegetable, and a car I would like Ford to make.

    Wait- What was the question?
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,186
    edited October 2013
    I kept forgetting to bring this up, due to fruit on the brain.

    I live in a very diverse, densely populated urban area, where there is always a good chance to see just about any vehicle made. I very much notice cars that are direct competitors to mine.

    I have not seen a Mazda 6 in weeks. I drove in to DC this morning for a meeting, and was stuck in traffic on 395. I saw almost every sedan there is today ( including a Maserati Quattroporte') with a large amount of Honda Accord's, Fusion's, Camry's, Passat's, a Chrysler 200, and even one Avenger. No Mazda 6.

    So, I would love to know where Mazda 6's are selling, because they are not selling around DC. I see advertising for the 6 almost every day.

    I found a chart with Septembers mid-size sales figures showing that Mazda sold 3168. That isn't enough to keep the company going. Here it is:
    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/10/usa-midsize-car-sales-figures-september-201- 3-ytd.html
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,954
    Yes, but the Mazda6 is not Mazda's moneymaker....the 3 is. YTD sales thru Sept for the 3 is over 108,000 and the new, improved 3 is just hitting the dealerships as we speak. Part of the reason for the Mazda6 not selling more is availablity. They are selling them about as fast as Japan can ship them over. One could argue it was a mistake to shut down the Michigan line for the Mazda6 but there were other forces other than just market forces at play in that decision. Plus, Mazda probably didn't anticipate the demand or just didn't want to gamble on having too much inventory. It's a balancing act to some degree.

    It's funny but I always seem to hear that Mazda has to sell more Mazda6s or the sky will fall but Subaru only sells about the same number of Legacys as Mazda sells 6s and the death knell for Subaru seems pretty silent. And the Subaru Impreza has only sold about 60k YTD in the U.S. compared to the Mazda3 of 108k YTD. And Subaru just axed their one poorly selling SUV while Mazda's CX-5 is a hit. So, I think Mazda has a pretty good outlook unless they really screw up somehow.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 221
    edited October 2013
    I may be off a bit here, but I believe most of the midsize sedans with the exception of the Chrysler 200 have outsold the mazda 6. I go by a few mazda dealers and they have plenty of them on the lots, but I have seen only two on the road this year. I googled it and found that 3,168 mazda 6s had been sold through the end of September of this year. If they are selling them as fast as the factory can make them, I think they need to hire a second guy at the factory.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,954
    "I found a chart with Septembers mid-size sales figures showing that Mazda sold 3168. That isn't enough to keep the company going. Here it is:
    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/10/usa-midsize-car-sales-figures-september-201- - 3-ytd.html"

    Don't know why you had to Google it as cski already posted the same number with a reference as quoted above. But you're right that most midsize cars outsell the Mazda6. However, I was specifically mentioning the Legacy from Subaru because they sell at about the same pace as the Mazda6 so I guess Subaru better "hire a second guy at the factory" as well. Kidding aside, I think people forget sometimes that Mazda is just a smaller niche car company that doesn't need to sell as many cars to cover their overhead. Same thing with Subaru. Could they be doing better? Sure, but they are hardly going broke. They have huge winners in their CX-5 and the new Mazda3 and the 6 is selling well above expectations. Even though the overall number may be small, the % increase over last year is good.

    I have 3 Mazda dealers within 10 miles of my house and their combined inventory per cars.com is 17 Mazda6. I would dare to say if you actually went to each dealership today they would not have all those available. So inventory is fairly slim around here.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,954
    "I found a chart with Septembers mid-size sales figures showing that Mazda sold 3168. That isn't enough to keep the company going. Here it is:
    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/10/usa-midsize-car-sales-figures-september-201- - 3-ytd.html"

    Don't know why you had to Google it as cski already posted the same number with a reference as quoted above. But you're right that most midsize cars outsell the Mazda6. However, I was specifically mentioning the Legacy from Subaru because they sell at about the same pace as the Mazda6 so I guess Subaru better "hire a second guy at the factory" as well. Kidding aside, I think people forget sometimes that Mazda is just a smaller niche car company that doesn't need to sell as many cars to cover their overhead. Same thing with Subaru. Could they be doing better? Sure, but they are hardly going broke. They have huge winners in their CX-5 and the new Mazda3 and the 6 is selling well above expectations. Even though the overall number may be small, the % increase over last year is good.

    I have 3 Mazda dealers within 10 miles of my house and their combined inventory per cars.com is 17 Mazda6. I would dare to say if you actually went to each dealership today they would not have all those available. So inventory is fairly slim around here.
  • gee22gee22 Posts: 82
    I have over 6K miles on my Mazda6 and only have noticed two others.
    Mine is blue and during the summer, I noticed a blue one in front of the drug store near me. My first thought was that someone stole mine and stopped at the store but then I noticed it wasn't a GT. Turns out that someone a few blocks away has one. I must live in the only town in the world with two Mazda6's, both of them blue.
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