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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 227
    I drive between Daytona and Orlando on a regular basis and have seen two Mazda 6s this year - one red and one white. (FWIW - I think they are the sharpest looking of the midsize sedans on the outside, but once you open the door the party is over.) I have seen more Ferraris, more Lambos, and more Audi 8s than I have seen Mazda 6s. I'm beginning to wonder if m6user is not only a mazda salesman, but if he's related to akirby the Hyundai salesman.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    edited October 2013
    I have seen more Ferraris, more Lambos, and more Audi 8s than I have seen Mazda 6s. I'm beginning to wonder if m6user is not only a mazda salesman, but if he's related to akirby the Hyundai salesman.

    First, I think it's kinda cool to drive something you don't see all the time on the road, e.g. the Camcordfumaltima. One of the cars in my stable is a 2004 Elantra GT hatchback. I don't see many of those on the road, either, despite their being made (for that generation) for six years. It doesn't bother me at all. I don't see too many Kia Rio5 hatches either... no problem there either.

    Second, I think you meant to say "akirby the Ford salesman." ;)
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 227
    edited October 2013
    We are shopping for a new car. Our thoughts so far - just ours - not looking to trash anyone or be trashed by anyone. Looked at the mazda 6 - beautiful until you open the door. Camry - cheap interior, but ruled it out due to the partial offset crash test failure. Accord - nice, but they have Honda transmissions in them and I know better than to go that route (had 3 replacements in our 2000 accord in less than 90k miles) and know the history of Honda's auto transmissions (also read many complaints about the new cvt and wind noise). Fusion - overpriced for what it is and didn't think much of the design and disliked the interior even more. We have been thinking of expanding our search and were thinking Taurus - until we saw five of the worst ten cars rated by consumer reports were fords. Haven't looked at the Avalon, but believe it's on the same platform as the camry and although not tested in the partial offset crash test, we feel there is no reason to think it any different from the camry. Would not consider a GM or chrylser. Tried the Altima, but it constantly lugged (like the complaints on the accord) and the airbag light came on indicating no airbag for the passenger in each of the three that we drove. Liked the optima and sonata, but the front passenger seat is too low (lower than other cars IIRC). May look at the genesis sedan, but think we'll wait for the new ?2015? before making a decision. No decision yet, but in no hurry.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    You didn't mention some other mid-sized cars, e.g. Passat (especially nice with the TDI), Legacy (CR's most reliable mid-sized car, plus AWD). But based on your remarks above, likely none of those would satisfy you either.

    Maybe your best bet is to learn how to drive a stick and get an Accord LX or Sport with the 6MT. As you may know, Honda makes one of the best manual transmissions in the business.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,621
    How about a review of your impressions of your car?
    I want to take advantage of a rare opportunity of an owner of a new 6 for us. ;)
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,964
    No, not even close. I'm just retired military who happens to stick up for Mazda once in awhile. You know, stick up for the little guy sort of thing. I've defended Camry too on this forum in times past even though I've never owned one. Just had lots of friends and relatives that have and loved them. They are certainly not my cup of tea but for many people they are perfect.

    It seems whenever anybody is actually faced with facts and reality they are quick to accuse someone of having a secret agenda like "oh, he must be a XXX salesman". How childish is that. I like Mazdas but I also own a Honda product and a Toyota product.
  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 227
    Your posts make it seem like you are a salesman or a big fan. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but that was not the intent.

    @backy - I owned two VWs. The only thing worse than the first one was the second one. I think they should come with a compass that points to the nearest repair shop. I don't need a strike three on that. I actually like the subarus, but I live in Florida and the AWD would be useless to me. And on the manual tranny - wife would have no interest in one and from what I've read Honda's manual trannys, although smooth shifting, seem to have their share of problems too - particularly 3rd gear for some reason.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    OK, here's your ideal solution then: get a Sonata or Optima (your choice), and get a custom e.g. Recaro seat to replace the too-low OEM passenger seat, so it can be adjusted higher. Heck, get one for the driver while you're at it, too. Would cost a lot less than going upmarket with something like the Genesis.

    You're welcome. :)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,671
    Not a salesman, just a loyal and knowledgable Ford owner trying to dispel myths and lies.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    I think you meant to direct this to wayne21, he's the one who called you a "salesman".
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,964
    Believe me, you did not hurt my feelings but you should be sorry for accusing people when you have no clue. There are a lot of people that post here that are big fans of certain brands. Next time just ask...don't accuse.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,665
    The avalon is on a different platform than the Camry...doesn't look like it's been tested against the "small overlap front" yet.

    Why not the Impala...never driven or even sat it but from appearances it looks impressive.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,468
    Me too. One of the reasons I love my 2001 Honda Prelude Type SH is that thy are extremely rare cars. My wife's Pilot & my 328xi are all over the place.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,435
    Teach your wife to drive a stick. ;)

    Honda MT's don't have 3rd gear problems - where did that come from. Anecdotal, but I have an Integra with 232,000 miles and an Accord with 168,000 miles. Both transmissions are fine. Of course the 2013 is also fine, but it only has 10,000 miles.

    Also the EX has a stick as well, not just the sport and LX.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Tried the Altima, but it constantly lugged (like the complaints on the accord) and the airbag light came on indicating no airbag for the passenger in each of the three that we drove.

    While this might be true, ya gotta admit it sounds like an exaggeration for potential effect.

    Or maybe ya better get the better half back on a little more groceries for awhile.. ;)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,851
    A reporter would like to speak to a new Ford Fusion buyer. If you have purchased a Fusion in October, please send your daytime contact information to pr@edmunds.com no later than 8 a.m. PT/11 a.m. ET Friday, 11/1/13. Bonus points if you traded out of a Toyota Camry or a Honda Accord!

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 227
    edited October 2013
    When I experience a problem and read on the internet that others are having the same problem I don't think of it as an exaggeration for potential effect. I see it as being prudent to avoid a known. As to the wife, the most she ever weighed was 127 lbs and that was the at the peak of her pregnancy 30 years ago.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,665
    127 and pregnant...wow...that's what my 10 year old weighs...and that's average for his football team :)
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,206
    I agree that the Mazda 3 will be the volume seller, and I know the CX-5 is doing quite well. I don't think that Mazda engineered the new 6 from the ground up to not make a profit though. It is crucial that all three vehicles sell well for Mazda to be stable. I want to see Mazda to continue to build great cars and to resist being bought out by competitors.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,206
    A full six of the top ten cars sold in America are mid-size sedans. Another 2 are in the top 20. That is a whopping 40%! My Optima is in 13th, and even the Chrysler 200 made the list. It is unfortunate that the Mazda 6, Passat, and Avenger did not make the list. (well not so much the Avenger). I hope Chrysler has a more competitive mid-size in the pipeline.

    http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/10/usa-20-best-selling-cars-september-2013.htm- l
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    How do you know Mazda isn't making a profit on the Mazda6?

    From what I see in my area, Mazda dealers aren't offering big incentives on the new Mazda6 yet. But you can get HUGE incentives to buy an Optima or Sonata or Accord or Camry or Fusion or Malibu or 200 or... just about everything else in this class.

    If Mazda can keep the profit margin per car up there, they can make a profit on the car even with a low sales volume. To make $1 million, you can for example sell 10,000 cars for a $100 profit each, or 1000 cars for $1000 profit each. It's $1 million either way.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,206
    edited November 2013
    I never said it wasn't profitable. I said I have not seen many, and posted Septembers sales figures which explains why.

    I don't know if Mazda is making a profit on the 6 or not. Mazda had to completely develop the car from the ground up, which costs a fortune. So, they may be making a profit per car, but not as a whole. It is fortunate that the CX-5 and the 3 share the platform

    I am pulling for Mazda. It has a sedan rated number 1 by Car & Driver and Automobile Magazine, beating all comers, it delivers the Zoom-Zoom drivers have been promised, yet sales seem to not reflect the goodness of this car.

    The one area where the mags agree is that the well-put-together interior doesn't deliver the technological bang that some of the others do. However, my Optima has a similar driver - friendly dash layout that is built around the driver, just like the 6. I dunno; I mean wouldn't you think that the 6 would be outselling my car by now guys?
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,206
    edited November 2013
    Only the LX and EX Optima have a fixed height passenger seat. You will have no problem with the SX and SX-L. They do cost more though, but this is a great time of year to negotiate a great deal. Even better on the day after X-Mas.

    It depends on what interior colors you get on the Mazda. Personally, I really like the Mazda's interior as a drivers car. It is all business and not much flash...but it is very well put together. I drove the Touring about 7 months ago, and after that what I wished for was that my car steered like the 6. Also, the 6 chassis was less "rubbery" feeling than the Optima. On the other hand, my 2.4 liter felt stronger than the Mazda's in the mid range. Both my car and the Mazda have 6 speed autos. Here is Mazda's GT interior: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1303_midsize_madness_day_four/photo_- - 09.html

    I like the Accord too, and even though it has a few strips of plasti-luminum trim the rest of the interior is otherwise very nicely done. Here is the Sport interior:
    http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1303_midsize_madness_day_four/photo_- - 01.html
    Also loving the Sport's dual pipes, 18" rims, and the wing, but not the CVT. I like the blue color on the Accord hands down.

    Tough choices.
  • gee22gee22 Posts: 82
    It's not $1 million either way. Not even close. You are forgetting the hundreds of millions of dollars of capital you would need to build 10,000 cars, just to make a measley $1 milliion profit. You wouldn't even get a Mazda3 as your severance package if you were the CFO :)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    It was an over-simplified example of how you don't need to sell 400,000 cars of one model per year to make a profit on them. I'm a summa [non-permissible content removed] laude MBA grad and know how companies make money. I just didn't think I needed to go into the excruciating details in this case, since this a discussion about cars and not corporate finances.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,206
    edited November 2013
    Frankly we need to stop the personal attacks. I am all for a healthy discussion, and at times tempers will flare. There are about 6 or 8 of us that represent the board, and no one will post if they see us attacking each other. We could use a few newbies.

    Also...

    We are all salesmen! How many cars do you think we have sold just by posting facts figures and experiences? At least you guys would get a real dealership. With Kia, I would get stuck in an old Suzuki/Geo trailer behind backy's Hyundai dealership....My business cards would have "KIA" taped over "GEO" with my name scrawled in pencil. Claaaaasssssyyyy!

    So...

    With that said, have a good weekend!! :shades:
  • gee22gee22 Posts: 82
    Need not get so defensive. I would have framed it more like say, comparing GM with Subaru. GM sure didn't make it up in volume :)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    Hey, don't forget my Kia and Mazda dealerships! I don't want those guys to feel left out! :)

    And btw, it's a really nice Kia dealership, no Suzuki/Geo trailer here. It's a former Saturn place, pretty hi-tech in appearance. Seems to fit well with the European styling theme Kias have at present.

    But I don't have my Mazda6 right now. Some unmentionable walloped it while it was sitting in a parking lot. Hit and run of course. So I'm in a Cruze rental for awhile. Pretty decent little car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,694
    You're right. No need to get defensive when someone pretty much calls you an idiot. Shame on me.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,621
    From Ford press release:

    Fusion sales of 21,740 vehicles jumped 71 percent year-over-year, making it the car’s best-ever sales performance for October.
    The strongest growth for Fusion is in the west region of the U.S., with retail sales up 77 percent. In the eastern region of the country, Fusion retail sales are up 65 percent.
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