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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 221
    Maybe those honda people should focus on the years of transmission problems in hondas (handled by class action lawsuits) or the VCM problems of the new hondas or the brake problems of the new hondas before they start trashing hyundai.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,674
    Sure, Honda has had its share of problems too--even Honda fans like me admit that.

    And I don't think they are trashing Hyundai, they are just showing that there are trade-offs with DI engines. When you first look at it on paper DI sounds like a win-win--more power and more mpg. But if you think about possible maintenance issues 6-10 years down the line, and nvh issues now, it clearly is a trade off.

    Some of the vtec people say that Honda may go to DI as well in a couple of years...But then again they might not.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    If it is true that this engine design is prone to sludge, perhaps Hyundai will specify synthetic oil?
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,426
    They said the same thing about fuel injection. VW had it on the rabbit in 1976 and Honda did not start using it until the 80's and even then only on some models.

    I am impressed with the Sonata. I drive an Accord now and like it very much, but it is not perfect. The seats are not very comfortable and to get lumbar support I need leather and to get leather I need a sunroof which means no headroom. If Hyundai actually has availability of the stick (unlike Toyota and their vaporware) I would take a hard look at one in a few years when I am ready to get a new vehicle. I am very impressed with the mpg.

    Now if Honda brought over their 4-cyl diesel that would be the end of the story, but they are reluctant. Seems like they want to concentrate on big heavy inefficient vehicles right now like their guzzling crossover. Nice to see Hyundai thinking outside of the box.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    Ward's best ten engines list just came out. No Honda engine made the list but a Hyundai engine did. Not a DI engine mind you or that Ward's is the end all of "best engine" lists but it is a highly respected source.

    I think Hyundai is going to have a winner in this new Sonata. They have been bashed for copying designs(and boring designs), using old technology, transmissions a notch behind the leaders, not having cutting edge tech inside, interior quality finishes, suspension issues, etc. Don't know about the suspension but they seem to have addressed all the other issues just mentioned in this new version.

    As far as design goes the Lexus ES350 is hardly called a wild design or too far out. If anything it is usually referred to as less than daring but that is probably the car that the new Sonata reminds me of from a lot of different angles. The only thing that I see that is a little overboard is the hood creases. Camry isn't exactly beautiful from the front and Accord is downright ugly from the rear. I think the Mazda6 may be a little gaudy with the bulged out wheel wells for a lot of people's preference. I have an'07 Mazda6(which has been trouble free for 38,000 miles) and like the new version but the interior was just not upgraded enough to get me excited about it.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,613
    considering hyundai has a 10 year warranty, it kind of seems like sour grapes from the other guys.
    plus like many other things there have been advancements since someone first took a chance on the technology.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,674
    yes, explorer--this is the part I can't figure out. Hyundai must figure that this direct engines are reliable over the long haul--because otherwise they're likely to pay dearly not just in reputation but in terms of warranty costs. If a large number of these engines are going to be gunked 5-10 years from now, it would cost them a fortune to fix.

    I assume the Hyundai engineers have sat down with Hyundai accountants and execs and looked at it and decided it was going to work...

    But other car companies (VW, anyone) have also had faith that things would all work out, and sometimes they just did not.

    My sour grapes against VW (had a jetta that was a nightmare) is that I trust Hyundai a lot more than I would trust VW.

    Hyundai probably has a big winner on its hands. I think the 2011 Sonata looks like a great car. But would I buy one? I've had such great experiences with my Hondas that I probably wouldn't....But I still think that Sonata looks great.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,613
    there are LOTS of DI engines that going to be introduced or have been in the last 2 years or so.
  • there are LOTS of DI engines that going to be introduced or have been in the last 2 years or so.

    Including the Ford EcoBoost engine, which is also on the Ward's 10 best list.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,665
    Most modern engines can easily go 150,000 miles with proper care. And don't forget that Hyundai's 10 yr warranty only applies to the original owner so that reduces their liability.
  • I guess VW has built quite a few DI engines, and some of them are having issues. Don't know if Hyundai has some magic fix for things that may be hard engineering challenges to overcome.

    Do we get some of the lowest-quality VW offerings here in the U.S.? How is it that VW is leading the world in automotive sales when all I hear is that they're horrible with electrical gremlins, these DI VW motors are gunking up too early, etc?

    I'll continue to stay far away from their vehicles, for now anyway. You see, I learned to drive stick in my Dad's 4-speed '66 VW Fastback. That was a great car to learn stick in, easy to steer and handle, too. Light in weight, and actually the car accelerated pretty quickly.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,674
    Yeah--I learned to drive stick in a VW too--a VW Bus. If you could drive and shift that, you could drive and shift almost anything.

    I forgot that the Hyundai 10 warranty wasn't transferable. And since many people only keep a car for 3-7 years, and since the DI problems are more likely to crop up in years 7-10, that does limit some of their liability...

    Still the new Sonata does look good in pix and on paper...
  • It's hard to understand how Hyundai after spending hundreds of millions
    of dollars to develop "what I think" is 2 of the best and most efficient
    car engines in years, will stop putting them in the car they were
    actually built for, such as soupping up the 3.3l V6 to make the new
    SE "more sporty". Personally that is the main reason I bought the 2009
    SE w/ the V6, it has more than I expected and then some. The only thing
    I might add would be a trunk key hole, so I am happy I did opt for this
    car. After buying 23 vehicles including this 1 in the past 45 years so far
    it has been the best. The technology in this thing is amazing to say the
    least. The old saying goes "if it ain't broke don't fix it"!!!! IMHO
    Good luck to the people that are waiting for the 2011.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,613
    it's getting to be about how high is your mileage rating?
    the 4 cyl should be plenty powerful enough for most buyers.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    How did they soup up the 3.3L just for the SE to make if more sporty? What is the other engine you are talking about? I also wonder what specific amazing technology the Sonata has that other carmakers don't have? I agree that the Sonata SE w/ the V6 is a very nice car with guts but I think the only real mechanical differences between the SE and the Limited, or for that matter the GLS, is the suspension/tires along with a couple of cosmetics. The V6 is the same for all three cars I believe.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    Exactly. 9 out ten Sonatas are I4 now and will be 100%. Hyundai has went on record that they intend to be the mpg champ. By only selling I4s in their bread and butter car it will raise their corporate average nicely.
  • I'm glad you asked those questions, I will try to use some of the same wording
    that I read while doing research on the Sonata. For the 2009 Sonata SE it was
    in the plans by Hyundai to develop a high performance engine in attempts to
    make the SE a little more sporty to compete with cars like the new Mazda6
    and Fusion and Malibu etc. (if that was accomplished or not is an opinion thing).
    It is not and I don't think it has ever been advertised as a sports car. And how
    they "souped it up" was increasing the horsepower and torque and opening up
    the power curve. This was done by adding C.V.V.T to both camshafts and add
    VIS to the induction system, the engine is built out of aluminium which also helps
    performance. This upped the HP from 234 to 249 and increased the torque also.
    All this was done and the MPG rating actually went up. Hyundai USA's engineers
    and builds their own engines in the plant in Alabama. The other engine is the
    I4 2.4L that is used in the Sonata, its HP also went up.

    The Se has a different suspension as you said, it also comes with a larger
    breaking system than the others. The engine is mounted on hydrolic motor
    mounts. All this was done by Hyundai alone, this V6 drive trane is getting
    a lot of attention by other car makers, very good MPG's and dependable also.
    To me that is pretty amazing technology.
  • I would like to add, I don't see that I wrote that the (new f/ 2009) V6 was only
    to be used in the SE, sorry if you misunderstood it. I did not post the comment
    to knock the Limited or the GLS, I would be shooting myself in the foot sort of
    speak. They are basically the same car but the trim levels are not the same, the
    GLS has a few options that can be added, same goes f/ the SE and the Limited,
    but some options are not available on all trims. There are items for the SE that
    are for the SE only can't even be ordered for the Limited or the GLS. (maybe
    some after market), such as the fore mentioned suspension and breaks. Will
    that make it special? it is called a SE I think means (special edition) but again
    that could be subjective. How will this fare with the rest of the US cars, who cares
    other than the buyer, like me. Do I think it,s special? absolutely IMO, I have owned
    many fine autos including other brand HIGH performance models and this holds
    it's own, actually I consider better! It has the smallest liter engine (3.3) than the
    others I've had such as (GM's) 3.8l turbo charged Bonneville's SSEI that was on
    the market about 15 years that was a nice car but had issues.

    How well will the 2011 go over here in the US market remains to be seen. We will
    see soon enough.

    Happy holidays to all !!!!!
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,950
    Thanks for the detail. I think SE stands for "Sport Edition" rather than "special". You said that Hyundai developed the engine to make the SE more sporty but isn't it the same engine(hp/torque) that is used in the GLS and Limited? I think they did other things like you mentioned suspension and tires, cosmetics(I don't believe the brakes are different) to make the SE sporty but not necessarily the engine because, correct me if I'm wrong, don't they also sell the SE in I4 version?

    such as soupping up the 3.3l V6 to make the new
    SE "more sporty".

    The above is where I got the idea that you meant they souped it up specifically for the SE. Maybe that's not what you meant.
  • Appreciate the reply, "Sports Edition" sounds even better! thanks. The V6 and
    the I4 come in all three trims, thats very good Hyundai USA can concentrate their
    efforts on only these 2 engines for the Sonata. Go to google and type in (2009
    Sonata SE v6 specs and reviews) it will provide all the info about what was done
    to the "new version 2009 SE) well over 1000 parts were changed from the
    previous 2008 model including the bigger break system and suspension. (I
    found it very interesting). That made me go for the SE over the other 2 trims
    and buy a Sonata in general. Whatever the reason the new engines were built
    it added a good dimension to an already good drive trane.

    Some times my thoughts are not conveyed perfectly. It's a pleasure exchanging
    info with people that share the same interests. Have a good one!!
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