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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • ahightowerahightower TXPosts: 502

    @stickguy said: It's German?

    I count that in the Accord's favor...

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,307

    @akirby said: You don't get desensitized - it's not distracting. Besides all the other points you can't argue with the fact that Lane Watch only works on one side of the vehicle. It doesn't work at all on the left side and I change lanes to my left just as much as to my right.

    Yes, but the car is in the way when looking to the right. Looking left I/you/we have no blind spot.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,307

    @akirby said: So how does the mfr control whether the alcohol evaporates from the end of the nozzles? Or whether you're using washer fluid with antifreeze at all? If the car doesn't have heated washers then it's up to you to make sure they don't freeze, not the mfr.

    It's winter, and the dealer topped off my windshield washer fluid using fluid provided by Kia. I have never used my own fluid, since I take the car in for oil changes and inspection every three months.

    I bet the Mercedes S class has heated washer nozzles, but hey...at least I don't have a clown face dash to look at.

    LOL.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,723

    @cski said: Yes, but the car is in the way when looking to the right. Looking left I/you/we have no blind spot.

    Of course you have a blind spot on the left side. There are blind spots on both sides of the vehicle. If you adjust your mirrors properly you can eliminate the blind spot. And when you turn your head and look you can see if there is a car in the blind spot on either side - which I still do even with BLIS and with having my mirrors adjusted properly. These aids are just extra insurance - not a substitute.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,307
    edited January 10

    **@ahightower said: Well. Fascinating as the blind spot debate has been, let me throw out something new. Just saw the press release for the Passat Sport. http://www.autoblog.com/2014/01/09/2014-vw-passat-sport-26475-pricing

    Let's discuss Accord Sport vs Passat Sport. My observations:

    -Accord is almost $3K cheaper.

    -Passat has leather(ette?) to Accord's cloth (if leatherette, I'd prefer cloth, and the Sport's cloth is an upgrade from the LX/EX cloth (which was also upgraded for MY 2014 although I haven't seen it in person yet)).

    -Passat 170 hp, 184 lb/ft. Accord 189 hp, 182 lb/ft.

    -Accord manual is 6-speeds to Passat's 5-spd, and universally considered among the best MT available.

    -Accord Sport does have a few extra hp vs LX/EX, due to upgraded exhaust. And it has a tightened suspension. While certainly no "sports car", it's more deserving of the Sport appelation than the Passat which appears to be entirely cosmetic touches.

    -Both are sadly lacking in color choices (gray, white, or silver for Passat SPort, whereas Accord Sport can be any color unless you want the MT, in which case it's either gray or black.)

    -IMHO, the Passat needed that 250 hp they teased to be compelling at this price. Or else, the Accord Sport is just a super bargain.

    What other features and specs has the Passat to justify its premium? ** Are you sure you don't want to talk about blind spots more? ;)

    The Accord Sport is the best car value on the market, period. It is not just me that thinks that. Car and Drivers' ten best issue did as well. You may want to contemplate the Mazda 6 Touring. as well, which also made the 10 best list. The 6 is a VERY competitive car, with competitive specs, and (marginally) better handling than either the Accord and the Passat. Really the Accord is the bargain here though. I would love to have a blue one with the M/T if you are listening Honda!!

    The Passat still looks like a bread box, but I have to admit that the sport model looks nice and more like the 3.6 SEL. The 1.8 turbo will leave you wanting in the power department however. Also, it offers only 5 manual cogs vs the 6-speeds in the Asian cars. The Passat is an older (comparatively) design than either of the others. 170 hp is just not enough for a car this size. Driving in this area, I would have to keep the revs up too much, which kills MPG.

    For example, I really like the smooth power delivery in my 2.4 liter (Optima EX) and with the 6 speed auto, and 200 hp is just right for a 3200 lb car.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,673

    @cski said: For example, I really like the smooth power delivery in my 2.4 liter (Optima EX) and with the 6 speed auto, and 200 hp is just right for a 3200 lb car.

    I think the Passat Sport "looks" the best. Those 19" wheels certainly look expensive and probably contribute to the higher price. I think the blacked out roof and mirrors give it a very nice look overall.

    I'm probably the only one, but I don't care for the Accord design. It just looks like an old design to me. The Mazda 6 and Fusion are tops in design.

    I do however have issues with a "Sport" badge that does not include any sport upgrades. Lower springs...stiffer, a slight boost in the turbo would go a long way in legitimizing the badging. An APR chip would probably fix the engine side of the "sport"...if one were so inclined...

  • "Mazda6: Despite getting redesigned for the 2014 model year, a re-engineered Mazda6 is scheduled to arrive in late 2014 or early 2015 with a new interior and updated front fascia.

    Since the debut this year, the redesigned Mazda6's interior has been criticized by some as bland. Sources say the new interior will include new gauges, instrument clusters, materials, center stack design and seating surfaces, as well as a version of the connectivity and infotainment system in the upcoming Mazda3. The new interior's overall aesthetic will be similar to that of the 2014 Mazda3, but more refined to help the mid-sized sedan keep its place atop the hierarchy of Mazda's cars."

    Let's hope they dump that stupid leatherette (vinyl) seating material on the Touring model.

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017
    edited January 10

    @garythesnail Usually when adding quotes one references the source. Where did you read read this? I was at my Mazda dealer yesterday and they said pretty much nothing was changing on the 6 for the 2015 model year. I was just in for service and shooting the bull with the service manager so it wasn't some salesman trying to sell the 2014 model. But it wouldn't be the first time a dealer was just not up to speed on the latest and greatest. But if you're source is right and it doesn't arrive until early 2015, it would probably be a 2016 model. Tks.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,936
    edited January 10

    just read the autoblog preview on the passat sport, and it repeatedly said it came with a 6 speed manual.

    also, anyone know if that roof opens, or is it just some sort of fixed smoked glass?

    and maybe it is just me, but I can't stand those 19" wheels. Look very mis-proportioned to me. Like bad aftermarket "dubs".

    17" wheels would be more than big enough to me.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (mine)

  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230

    I find the BLIS / Lanewatch topics quite interesting. It makes me wonder how people managed to get from point A to point B all these years without them. I seem to have done so for 40 years of accident-free driving. It makes me wonder if the idea behind driverless cars is because the technology will be there to do it or if it is because people are too lazy to drive their own cars or if it will be because people are too dumb to drive.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,307

    @stickguy said: just read the autoblog preview on the passat sport, and it repeatedly said it came with a 6 speed manual.

    also, anyone know if that roof opens, or is it just some sort of fixed smoked glass?

    and maybe it is just me, but I can't stand those 19" wheels. Look very mis-proportioned to me. Like bad aftermarket "dubs".

    17" wheels would be more than big enough to me.

    I think the rims look good...they match the car pretty well. I don't like the 170 hp in such a big car. If I am going German, I want the 2.0T in the Golf GTI. $25 or $27,500 with the sport seats and in dash GPS.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,307

    @explorerx4 said: My wife's Escape has BLIS, which is useful....

    It sounds like some sort of automotive Xanax. We should ALL have blis...blis is your friend. Escape with blis! :o

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,689

    Have the same 2.4 engine in my Hyundai Tuscon and agree with the statement about it's smoothness and refinement...it is that and more, a real pleasure to drive. Sure it's thirstier then what I have been used to but I understood this going in and the trade-off is worth it to me. An hopefully the mileage numbers will go up some once it gets past 5k on the clock. With just over 2k on it now, I still have a ways to go. But I am enjoying the ride!

    The Sandman :) B)

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,307
    edited January 11

    @sandman_6472 said: Have the same 2.4 engine in my Hyundai Tuscon and agree with the statement about it's smoothness and refinement...it is that and more, a real pleasure to drive. Sure it's thirstier then what I have been used to but I understood this going in and the trade-off is worth it to me. An hopefully the mileage numbers will go up some once it gets past 5k on the clock. With just over 2k on it now, I still have a ways to go. But I am enjoying the ride!

    The Sandman :) B)

    I find that at 3/4 throttle gives me the most satisfying acceleration. The torque just kind of slings it through the gears smoothly and it feels like it has a ton more power in reserve.... they really nailed it on the smooth powertrain. I think they did a on the Optima, and it sure has nice duds to wrap it all up in. The chassis is certainly adequate, but it lacks a true sporty feeling. With a little more suspension experience, Honda and Toyota should be very worried.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,673

    @stickguy said: just read the autoblog preview on the passat sport, and it repeatedly said it came with a 6 speed manual.

    also, anyone know if that roof opens, or is it just some sort of fixed smoked glass?

    and maybe it is just me, but I can't stand those 19" wheels. Look very mis-proportioned to me. Like bad aftermarket "dubs".

    17" wheels would be more than big enough to me.

    Yeah...autoblog said 6 spd manual. I think the other mags say 5spd, and the current Passat manual is 5spd so it's probably a 5spd.

    I love the 19"s :) that alone would sway me...heh, go figure.

    I think it's just a regular roof...just black.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,936

    On topic for this thread, had a text from my SIL earlier (I am her "go to guy" for all things automotive. Go figure...) Anyway, she had some relative that needed a car and she wanted options. The to topic part, they wanted a mid sized sedan!

    criteria seemed to be 1) cheap, and 2) anything else. In terms of a good lease price, nothing down. Foreign or domestic. Currently driving a well-worn Corolla (so yeah, bar set real low).

    Gave them Camry and Sonata as probably the 2 best basic options with a low lease price now. With the Fusion a contender. And the mazda 6 as the one I liked, but likely to cost more!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (mine)

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,830
    edited January 11

    You probably aren't going to get a Fusion lease as cheap and a Camry, without putting down a pretty good down payment, which you want to avoid, if possible. I'm letting mother nature wash the Fusion today. First time it's been above freezing in a while.

  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447

    @wayne21 said: I find the BLIS / Lanewatch topics quite interesting. It makes me wonder how people managed to get from point A to point B all these years without them. I seem to have done so for 40 years of accident-free driving. It makes me wonder if the idea behind driverless cars is because the technology will be there to do it or if it is because people are too lazy to drive their own cars or if it will be because people are too dumb to drive.

    I suppose you don't need seatbelts either by that logic..

  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230

    I suppose you don't need seatbelts either by that logic..

    Not remotely the same logic.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,259

    Actually it's surprising how many people still don't use their seatbelts....about 15%. Given that perhaps 5% of any given population is clinically insane, that still doesn't explain the 10% who make that choice rationally.

    I try to break down optional accessories into 3 categories when I'm shopping for a car:

    1. Essential
    2. Useful
    3. One More Expensive Thing to Break Just Out of Warranty

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230

    _Actually it's surprising how many people still don't use their seatbelts....about 15%. Given that perhaps 5% of any given population is clinically insane, that still doesn't explain the 10% who make that choice rationally.

    I try to break down optional accessories into 3 categories when I'm shopping for a car: 1.Essential 2.Useful 3.One More Expensive Thing to Break Just Out of Warranty

    I pretty much do the same. And although my original question was a rhetorical one I did get an answer. _

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,307
    edited January 13

    @dudleyr said: I suppose you don't need seatbelts either by that logic..

    Over on the Optima site there are some modification enthusiasts that have done a "wiper delete" because "it looks cool" and "saves weight". While being questioned about the sanity of doing such a thing, they said "well, it doesn't rain much here" (LA). Well, of course everyone suggested other items that could go based on that logic. Like "our roads are long here... and I just realized that brakes are pretty heavy, so..."

    ON SELF DRIVING CARS....

    Really though, auto-drive is coming whether we like it or not. Just to play devils advocate, I bet a great number of people would rather drink their coffee and read the paper instead of slogging through an hour and a half of bumper-to-bumper on the way into work. I am one of those people. A computer is perfect for stressful, tedious, repetitious tasks like that. I want to drive when I can enjoy it. Also, computers would be better at managing the speeds and spacing between vehicles and get us there more quickly. So, there are some positives.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,307

    I have noticed that the standard Fusion 17" wheels look a whole lot like the Optima LX 16" alloys. So, I was curious and went to the Fusion site and built my own Fusion SE, just to familiarize myself a little better with the options, like which model gets which rims, etc.

    I added the 2.0 ecoboost to the base SE...and then automatically you get a nice set of 5 star 18" rims, and a decent price of $26,500. Not bad for the 240 hp model, 6 speed auto, nice black cloth seats, and the regular stereo system with all the bluetooth, USB, and aux input features included. I think that is a very competitive setup.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,259

    "Over on the Optima site there are some modification enthusiasts that have done a "wiper delete" "

    Airliners of course don't use wipers--they use some kind of ultrasound system, and there is talk of putting these on cars in the future. So you may indeed see the end of windshield wipers soon enough. I think McLaren is already working on this.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,307

    @MrShift@Edmunds said: "Over on the Optima site there are some modification enthusiasts that have done a "wiper delete" "

    Airliners of course don't use wipers--they use some kind of ultrasound system, and there is talk of putting these on cars in the future. So you may indeed see the end of windshield wipers soon enough. I think McLaren is already working on this.

    On a Mclaren it is cool. On an Optima converted into a Pep-Boys quasi-race car it isn't. Especially to save weight.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,307
    edited January 13

    Volkswagen sales down 22.7% in December. Audi, Mercedes, and BMW report strong sales increases. Almost half of Euro-branded luxury car sales have been leases in December.

    Just an FYI on the VW December sales figures, which of course include the mid-size Passat.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/01/03/european-automaker-december-2013-sales-vw-audi-bmw-mercedes/4297089/

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,259

    @cski said: Volkswagen sales down 22.7% in December. Audi, Mercedes, and BMW report strong sales increases. Over half of Luxury car sales have been leases in 2013. Just an FYI on the VW December sales figures, which of course include the mid-size Passat.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/01/03/european-automaker-december-2013-sales-vw-audi-bmw-mercedes/4297089/

    VW still doesn't "get" the American buyer, at least not completely. And they really need to step up in reliability, whether real or perceived, if they don't want to end up as the "Renault of America" in ten years---and what I mean by that is something like "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory".

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • b25nutb25nut Templeton, CAPosts: 199

    @wayne21 said: I find the BLIS / Lanewatch topics quite interesting. It makes me wonder how people managed to get from point A to point B all these years without them. I seem to have done so for 40 years of accident-free driving. It makes me wonder if the idea behind driverless cars is because the technology will be there to do it or if it is because people are too lazy to drive their own cars or if it will be because people are too dumb to drive.

    This will probably get me in trouble, but LaneWatch-type systems will be popular/needed since about 50% of the drivers out there are women, a fact that seems to be ignored in many discussion here. The vast majority of women are different drivers than men. This is really highlighted and confirmed in Hybrid forums.

  • wayne21wayne21 Posts: 230

    @b25nut said:This will probably get me in trouble, but LaneWatch-type systems will be popular/needed since about 50% of the drivers out there are women, a fact that seems to be ignored in many discussion here. The vast majority of women are different drivers than men. This is really highlighted and confirmed in Hybrid forums.

    HEY! I'm from the old school and I married a woman :) But in reality this came at just about the right time for me. My wife recently went to a funeral home for visitation. When leaving the funeral home she backed into a tree and scraped about 1" of pain off the back bumper. It's barely noticeable. We went to the funeral together 2 days later. We parked in the exact same parking spot (I was driving) and I couldn't even see a tree. In fact, I'd bet there wasn't a tree within 100 feet of the parking place. I didn't even bother asking where this tree may be located as striking up this conversation would do nothing to put the paint back on the bumper.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,307
    edited January 13

    @MrShift@Edmunds said: VW still doesn't "get" the American buyer, at least not completely. And they really need to step up in reliability, whether real or perceived, if they don't want to end up as the "Renault of America" in ten years---and what I mean by that is something like "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory".

    VW launched both the Jetta and Passat during a soft market on both continents, offering good, basic cars, while others designed sexy-looking sedans with that looked more like coupes, and were packed with features and smartly designed interiors with near luxury materials. I commend VW for sticking with what they do best and offering great driving, high quality, affordable sedans...but the sales figures show which formula Americans preferred, by and large, and with the longer warranties offered by the competition, VW just couldn't keep many folks in the showroom.

    Remember the Renault Alliance America? I Still do. In fact, I will never forget it. I think it had 80 hp.

    Buffalo NY, 1983.

    On a way to a very big wedding, 5 of us thick framed polish Americans were packed in an airport-rented Renault Alliance. We were going up a very steep hill on Military road, about 1/4 mile south of the Armory. What happened next was so surreal we almost couldn't believe it ourselves. A very very large tank broke loose from its tie-downs while being loaded on a trailer, and began rolling down the hill towards us. My father was not good with a stick, and by the time he got it together we were out of time. Panicked, he threw it in reverse, and backed us into a side road about 10 seconds before we were flattened, with about 20 reservists tearing after it as it continued rolling down the aptly named road.

    My father never drove a stick shift again.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

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