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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    oh wow :surprise: , what a relief! you scared the crap out of me! thanks for the clarification, I thought you were talking about the NY Show at the beginning of April! I didn't get to go last year for the first time in almost 12 years because I had spinal surgery the week before and I was no looking to going this year with my father! If Infiniti and BMW hadn't been there I might have ended up back in the hospital a second year in a row from a panic attack :P ;)
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Posts: 2,240
    The local Hyundai dealer is one of the higher volume dealers in the south. They were selling Sonata's before much of the nation even had one. And that SE is a really nice looking car, inside and out. Wifey wanted something a little taller, so she now has a Tucson Ltd. I needed a new commuter with some interior and got an Elantra Touring SE, 5spd. Very pleased with both.

    Re; the Hyundai warranty. These are my third and fourth Hyundai's, and I have never had even the slightest warranty problem with them. Admittedly, I have had very few problems, but those I had were taken care of quickly and completely. As with all manufacturers, the dealer is who the consumer works with, and the dealer can make or break the buyers satisfaction with the product.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Re warranty. My Toyota was falling apart very late in it's life, so I don't really count it. All other cars, with the exception of two Fords, I have never had any major issues with. The Fords, both had tranny problems. One going into the fourth year and one going into the 6th year. Not really a lot of miles on them. The one going into the fourth year Ford wanted $$$ to diagnose the problem. I got rid of it. The one into the 6th year I fixed and had it for 4 more years with minor stuff, thermostats, water pump, radiator, alternator, p/s pump. Other than that it was fine.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    Yeah, I was talking about the interior because obviously I could see the exterior even though it was on the stand. Don't really know what the trim differences on the interior are though. Maybe some fake brushed chrome or something beside the seat trim.

    BMW. Hmmm....rear wheel drive....March in MN(like Feb in rest of Midwest).....just a thought. ;) Can't figure that either...maybe they just don't have any new product that's exciting. I know somebody will slam me for not knowing but I really don't follow BMW much.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    They have the new 5 Series coming (mid-sized, but too pricey for this discussion). And they have a bunch of AWD sedans and SUVs, so no reason they should be shy about selling in Minnesnowta. They always had a sizable exhibit in prior years. Just strange.

    Oh well, I won't be buying another BMW anytime soon, so just as well they aren't there.
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    From the April 2010 issue of Popular Mechanics, rating midsize sedans with four-cylinder engines and automatic transmissions since they make up the majority of the sales in this class:

    Mazda 6 - The winner
    2nd place - Honda Accord tied with Subaru Legacy tied with Nissan Altima
    3rd place - Ford Fusion
    4th place - Chevy Malibu
    5th place - Suzuki Kizashi tied with Toyota Camry

    Interesting noted; ALL cars but the Suzuki Kizashi and Toyota Camry were noted for excellent interior quality. For the Camry "The interior that was once lauded for its quality feel now seems cheaply made, with poor panel fitment and low-rent materials.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Too bad they couldn't wait another month and include the newest member of the mid-sized sedans class in the comparo. Also, where was the Optima??
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    For the Camry "The interior that was once lauded for its quality feel now seems cheaply made, with poor panel fitment and low-rent materials.

    Oh? Sounds like they made an improvement over the 2009 Model. :shades:

    I don't know if they reuse the displays from one show to the next, but Toyota needs to seriously find a different company to put their display together, or at least get someone to proof read what they plan to display. They have the Sienna display, the one where the man looses his cohonies, "daddy likes", on one pillar they had in rather large letters a line about their back seat entertainment center. They really need to get a better understanding of words, because duel means to fight, but what they really were trying to spell out was the dual-view video system.

    Needless to say I LMFAO. I took a few pictures for posterity too.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    I did some shopping around for my 2011 Sonata SE's insurance and got to $640 every 6 months with Progressive.. which I didn't think was all that bad.

    Several other companies wanted to charge as much as $440 a month (are they kidding me? Thats more than the car payments!!) I think mostly because it wasn't in their system yet and they knew almost nothing about it. So it definitely depends on the company. I previously got almost the same quote on a 2010 Sonata SE V6 as well. I just ran the 2010 Ford Fusion Sport through the online quote system and you are right, $621 for 6 months. Not a huge difference but I'm still surprised.
  • caseybrucaseybru Posts: 47
    We have our car with Farmer's [ Mid Century ]. The car is full coverage. We pick up our 2011 Sonata next Tuesday. Our insurance right now is $288 for 6 months. It will go to $365 for 6 months for the 2011. We live in Ca. We have our vehicles [ car, truck, and motor cycle ] and home through Farmers. We have clean driving records. I am 72 and wife is 68. Hope this helps.
  • midas69midas69 Posts: 118
    edited March 2010
    I live in the city of Chicago, so insurance rates are high. But when I switched from my 2007 Camry to the 2011 Sonata my insurance went up about $5 a month. Pretty comparable to the original price I was paying when the Camry was new. BTW, that's through State Farm.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    edited March 2010
    Several other companies wanted to charge as much as $440 a month (are they kidding me? Thats more than the car payments!!)
    ****

    Yet another reason to find a 2-4 year old version of most anything and not but new. Insurance and the first 2-3 years registration is a hidden "tax" that most car buyers don't begin to factor into the price.
    ****

    True Cost to Own®
    ___________Year 1 Year 2 Year 3 Year 4 Year 5 5-yr Total
    Depreciation $7,257 $2,096 $1,845 $1,635 $1,467 $14,300
    Taxes & Fees $2,467 $147 $133 $121 $111 $2,979
    Financing...... $1,452 $1,170 $868 $544 $197 $4,231
    Insurance...... $1,976 $2,045 $2,117 $2,191 $2,223 $10,552

    Ouch? That first year is brutal and essentially a luxury tax in disguise. Even by year two, it's reasonable. (this is on the above mentioned Sonata SE)
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    Don't forget that you still have to pay a significant amount of sales tax in year two or three or whenever you buy unless you live in New Hampshire(no sales tax) or live in a state that doesn't tax used vehicles(I don't know of any). Also, you have to add back in some of that depreciation unless you are lucky enough to be able to buy wholesale. Still a better deal from a strict financial viewpoint I won't argue.

    However, I think most people realize there is a big dollar penalty in buying new. A lot of people save and skrimp for years just to be able to buy that brand spanking new car every 7-10 years. It is just as important to them to have that new car smell as it is to you to save money. Other want to know that the car they're buying has not been abused and they're willing to pay a price for that. To each their own.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    It's always better financially to buy a 2 to 3 year old car. Better than that financially is a 5 year old or 10 year clunker for $1000. But where is the line in the sand for who decides how much a car should be used before it really becomes a good value? Where is the line in the sand that dictates how much a car is before it becomes overpriced and out of range.

    One mans overpriced vehicle is anothers chump change (King Of Dubai silver Audi) and anothers persons very affordable Rolls is a stupid purchase to some.

    Everybody has to decide for themselves. Plekto is at the 2 or 3 year mark, I'm at the new mark.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    It's always better financially to buy a 2 to 3 year old car. Better than that financially is a 5 year old or 10 year clunker for $1000. But where is the line in the sand for who decides how much a car should be used before it really becomes a good value? Where is the line in the sand that dictates how much a car is before it becomes overpriced and out of range.

    One mans overpriced vehicle is anothers chump change (King Of Dubai silver Audi) and anothers persons very affordable Rolls is a stupid purchase to some


    Eh, I think this is pretty easy to document...a new car cost (payment, insurance, registration, depreciation maybe) vs a used car (same, but with increased maintenance/repair, not as advanced, which could be good or bad, etc)

    When I got rid of the '93 Accord for the '07, its maintenance costs had peaked and I was spending more on repairs than a car payment would be. So I bought a then new car that was already outdated (no MP3/iPod stereo in '07, puleeze :sick: ). But alas, a smarter purchase would've been a used domestic, but there was nothing in '04-06 that I really liked from the moderately sized 3.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    I am 23, no accidents, good credit.. but the age is what kills me on this one :(
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I think the bigger financial issue is how long you keep the car that you buy. I doubt it is cheaper to buy a 2-3 year old car every 2-3 years than it is to buy a new car every 10 years. Buying used can also mean far more time spent running around to test drive cars, because each one is in different condition.

    When I bought my last new car in 2007, IMO the best value probably would have been a year or two old used Taurus for maybe $12K. I considered that, but decided to spend $4K more to get the new Mazda6 that I wanted. It depends on your financial situation how significant that kind of difference is.

    If the entire cost of the car is a month or two's income and the value of your investments fluctuates by as much as the price of the car on many days, then the difference is much less than it is if you are making $10 per hour and have no savings.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    However, I think most people realize there is a big dollar penalty in buying new. A lot of people save and skrimp for years just to be able to buy that brand spanking new car every 7-10 years. It is just as important to them to have that new car smell as it is to you to save money.

    Yet the reality is that even a 1-2 year old car with 20-30K on it will be so close to new for most people that they can't tell the difference. On average it amounts to a 10K+ savings over the life of the car in lower payments(less interest), lower insurance, lower tax and registration, saved depreciation, and so on.

    That's a lifetime of repairs and then some and in many cases it STILL has some of that new car smell(though being that that is actually outgassing plastics and fabrics and paint, it's even not remotely healthy...)

    Plus, there isn't hardly any car out there that will be used up or even really broken in at 20-30K miles. It's a really safe move. And if you really do have the extra cash, you can go up a level or two. V6 for a 4 cylinder price. Win-Win. :)
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    I go through cars like others go through tooth paste. I put 34k miles on in 16 months on just one car, we have 3. If I added all the miles put on in a years time between the 3, it is over 50K miles. I went the used route, but wore the cars out before they were paid for, so for me going the new route works best, plus I got lucky with the cars I bought that they had a high trade in value, and none of them had residuals that were carried over into the next car payment. For example, a 2007 Prius, 10 months old, 24,000 miles, trade in on that covered the residual I had left over on a 2001 Crown Vic, that I also traded in, purchased a 2008 Hyundai Veracruz, when all was said and done I paid sticker OTD, which I financed for 60 months, I mean I financed the sticker price, that included the tax, title, license, and fees. after a few months we found we couldnt get by with just one car, and I got a superb deal on a 2009 Camry Hybrid, 28,500 OTD, with no trade, dropped $500 on it, financed 28K. Drove the Camry for the majority, put 34,000 miles on it in 16 months, and after several incidents with it deciding it wanted to go when we were stopping, traded it in for a 2010 Fusion Sport. I got what I owed for the Camry, so basically it was no different than had I leased it. I had to do some hard bargaining for the Sport to get the price down, but at 0% financing, I got a more expensive car, and pay over $40 a month less than for the Camry. Then after the last snow storm, I discovered, rather to my disappointment, than our loved Hyundai was terrible in the snow, we purchased a FWD version instead of AWD, thinking it should be fine in snow. Well it was, in dry cold snow, and it plows through drifts beautifully, but the wet slushy stuff, it was wanting to pass itself, back to front, would have issues getting going, and would be scary trying to stop. New tires would have helped, but would have cost over $1600 to get new rims and snow tires for it, but it would still have that nagging problem of the back end wanting to pass the front, even with good tires, so we decided to look for an AWD vehicle to replace it with. We checked Hyundai, but the lots were sparse, the local dealer is still trying to get its inventory back after the C4C, they sold just about all they had. There weren't any incentives, and what they had, they weren't willing to deal, so I went to Ford, and got an amazing deal on a Flex. What was even more amazing was they gave me more for my trade of the VC than I owed on it. What is even better, I knocked my payment down on it $114 a month over what I was paying on the Veracruz.

    So buying used isn't for everyone, there are some of us where buying new does work out. Insurance for me is very low, I have full coverage on a 1999 F350 Crew cab Dually diesel truck, the 2010 Fusion Sport and the 2010 Flex Ecoboost, in IL, and it costs me a little over $1600 a year for all three. The Sport is over $300 for 6 months, the other 2 are under $300 for 6 months.

    Now here is something funny, I had just opened some mail that I got Saturday, and found the bank I got the loan from on the Veracruz sent me a $550 check for over payment. In addition, there was an disability insurance policy on the loan that I may be able to get some money back on. This must be trickle down from owning the Prius. When I traded it, I had a warranty that I paid $1900 for, found I could get it for $895, dealer sent me a $1200 check for the difference, then when I canceled the warranty, got back an additional $1400. OK this makes up for all the cars I lost money on! :) :shades:
  • Did a second round of test drives on my preferred cars.

    Chevy Malibu - excellent build quality, very attractive inside and out, smooth engine, very quiet ride, but uncomfortable (for me) driver's seat, mainly because the seat is too sculpted for my large rear end.

    Honda Accord - Good build quality, fairly comfortable front seat, excellent handling, powerful engine, but noisy ride (road noise and wind noise).

    2010 Hyundai Sonata - decent build quality, very comfortable front seat, fairly quiet ride, but whiny, wimpy engine.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata - Very stylish exterior, very nice interior, extremely comfortable driver's seat (best I've ever encountered - I don't know why I didn't see it that way my first test drive), very good power, very good handling. Definitely the car for me.

    Problem - the color/model combination I want isn't available in the Washington DC area right now, so I'll have to wait awhile.
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