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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740
    edited August 5

    The new face of Lexus......

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,412
    edited August 5

    Pretty close on that picture.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769

    And Toyota seems to be mimicking it with the new Corolla and especially the new Camry. There's few current cars I would not buy just because of their styling, but the 2015 Camry is one of them. I can't take that schnoz.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,322

    Rolling trapezoidal grills. Sweet. But still better than Acura can muster backed up by an IS350 win over the 3 series in C/D just 6 months ago. I think it was the 335M...I dunno, BMW unhinged it's M program and now I don't know what is what to some extent.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740

    M3 is the sedan. M4 is the coupe.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,322
    edited August 7

    @akirby said: M3 is the sedan. M4 is the coupe.

    Yeah, I just wasn't sure which one in my head at the time! Also now there is an "M-Sport" package available on the whole lineup.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 7,253

    I've been driving a Nissan Altima rental while my car is in the shop getting some work done. My thoughts and impressions after a few days (copied from the CCBA thread).

    I've done a couple of delivery shifts in it now and have a bit more of an opinion on my likes and dislikes.

    First, I really like the keyless entry and push button start. One less thing I have to fumble with as I'm getting food into the car. Quite convenient.

    It's spacious and quiet riding, for the most part. With 34,000 miles on it, there are a few squeaks and moans when I go over bumps. The brakes squeal a bit from time to time.

    No feel at all through the steering wheel. I'm glad my Hyundai has the button that allows me to (artificially) boost the feel. This thing is dead. I'm noticing the same feeling when I drive the wife's CX-7, too. Geez, I hope that someone, somewhere, has maintained steering feel in their cars.

    Handles like a pig. I know, it's a mid-sized sedan, but I could get the front wheels to screech even at moderate speeds. Low resistance Michelins are to blame?

    Still getting used to the CVT - after my experience in the Sonata Hybrid rental I had in CA, this feels very different.

    Infotainment sucks. No USB, no satellite radio. Choices are AM/FM or an AUX jack for my iPod.

    Good gas mileage, however. If I'm reading the dashboard right, this tank has gone over 500 miles already and there is still over 100 miles left to empty. MPG computer shows 26.3 - don't know if that's a lifetime number or just for this tank. I got the car with just over a 1/2 tank of gas in it and I've done close to 200 miles already. I'll probably have to put gas in it, as I learned that the E-GT will be in the shop until Monday.

    MODERATOR
    2013 Hyundai Elantra GT / 2010 Mazda CX-7 GT / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
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  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,322

    Which is why I was confused. I thought maybe the 335 M-Sport was beaten but it wasn't. It was the M3.

    So, on the 3 series if the "M" is before the name it is a true "M" car. The others have the M after the name and denote an equipment package w/o the Hi-Po motor.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,025
    The people over in "Entry level performance sedans" know everything about BMWs. Try there.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740

    M sport is a package. M3/M5 is a vehicle.

  • ahightowerahightower TXPosts: 508

    The moderator is a pizza dude?

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,889

    In his spare time, yes

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 7,253

    @ahightower said: The moderator is a pizza dude?

    I am. Gets me out of the house and away from the computer. Otherwise, I might grow roots here in the home office.

    BTW, I have a "real" day job as well ... where I work from home.

    MODERATOR
    2013 Hyundai Elantra GT / 2010 Mazda CX-7 GT / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
    Need help navigating? michaell@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,322
    edited August 8

    @akirby said: M sport is a package. M3/M5 is a vehicle.

    Hey Kirby. I already stated that, and after all this time I have been here you know darn well I know what an M3 and M5 is!

    M-Sport is a package. M cars have the M in front, the package cars have M-Sport after the name of the car. 335i M Sport for example.

    I think BMW may be working the hell out of its brand marketing lol.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740

    I was just providing a summary (with fewer words) for the others.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,322
    edited August 9

    @Michaell said:

    I did it too. Network Engineer by day, Domino's by night. With a 1, 3, and 4 year old at home we needed all the cash we could get. It worked out great, allowing us to pay for all the little stuff with pizza cash, and got me out of the house, limiting diaper duty.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • rysterryster Posts: 521

    @akirby said: M3 is the sedan. M4 is the coupe.

    Unless you are looking at the 4-series Gran Coupe...which has 4 doors. I don't care if they call it a "Coupe"...it is a 4 door sedan with a stubby trunk ;)

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740

    Don't get me started on "4 door coupes".....

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,322
    edited August 10

    4 series "Gran Coupe?" Oh my god, I wasn't even aware that existed. BMW seems to have every niche product with no end in sight... this is what I meant in an earlier post. Even I would be intimidated if I walked on to their lot. I thought the 4 series was invented denoting a 2 door car! Someone oven there is behind this BMW branding blitz, and I am starting to wonder if he is insane.

    I actually hate to keep the entry level luxury sedan posts going, but I have been on the Fairfax BMW e-mailing list forever from when I had my old 320 serviced there, and I just got a mailer featuring over 50 328i cars, all slashed to $33,575. That is a seriously good price on a $50,000 car! I have no idea if any of them come with "available" features like seats and steering wheels, but $33k for a car that does 60 in 5.8 seconds and the quarter in 13.9 at 101. Very quick for a 4 cylinder in such a big car.

    If I was in the market for a loaded mid size sedan, I think I would add this long established BMW dealer on my short list for a test drive. It would probably come down to me buying the Mazda 6 or moving up to a low end BMW, with insurance and taxes being the deal breaker on the B-Mer.

    As long as it isn't a 320. Been there done that.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769

    Another way to move up a bit is with the Regal. I saw a great deal on the Regal Turbo in my local paper yesterday: $219/month for 36 months, no money down + TTL and first payment. That's a better deal than something like an Accord LX. Although the lease rates on those have dropped recently due to a $500 incentive. Weird thing about Honda ads in my area--they NEVER advertise sale prices, just lease rates.

    A few other mid-sizers advertised great deals yesterday, e.g. a new Fusion S for $16,500. It seems to me these super-low prices are coming a little earlier in the year than in the past. It used to be you'd only see the low-low prices in the fall, with the best deals around Thanksgiving to year-end.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,322

    In the back of the new (9/14) issue of Car and Driver, there is a graph of RETAIL sales numbers through April this year. The source of these numbers is IHS Automotive with POLK new-vehicle registration data. It is located on page 128, in the middle of a Honda Accord Sport (manual) long term test. It returned 29 mpg, did 0-60 in 6.6 seconds when new AND after 40,000 miles, No problems except 3 unscheduled brake rotor resurfacing trips to the dealer, and we all know it was driven hard by C/D staff.

    They loved it, but missed the lack of heated seats, SAT radio and navigation, and leather. Stated it is an extremely good value at $24k.

    Here are their numbers:

    Honda Accord - 112,100

    Toyota Camry - 110,379

    Nissan Altima - 84,111

    Ford Fusion - 72,746

    Hyundai Sonata - 54,014

    Kia Optima - 44,000

    Chevrolet Malibu - 43,101

    Subaru Outback - 37,534

    Volkswagen Passat - 26,824

    Dodge Avenger - 25,068

    Chrysler 200 - 21,648

    Mazda 6 - 15,306

    Buick Lacrosse - 12,080

    Subaru Legacy - 9596

    Buick Regal - 6452

    Volkswagen CC - 3563

    Anyway, I don't know if these numbers are truly all retail but that's what the graph says.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • Alright folks, come Labor Day weekend I'm going to be ready to pull the trigger on a Fusion. I've been in talks with a few dealerships around the country (Some in Chicago-land and Illinois, two in NJ and one in CT)

    Before this morning I was pretty set on driving to Columbia Ford out in Columbia, Connecticut to pick up a Fusion model they have available.

    It's a loaded Darkside model with Charcoal Interior with the following options:

    -6spd manual transmission -202A/Luxury pkg -Driver Assist pkg -Heated Steering Wheel -Power Moonroof -MFT/Navigation -Reverse Sensing System -18 inch black gloss alloy wheels

    Got a dealer quote late last night for $29200 prior to any rebates which comes out to about $340 above invoice. Currently I qualify for rebates up to $4750 if I take the Ford financing ($3750 if I don't) so the total cost as of last night was about $25,500-$24500 depending on rebates. I was about to plan the trip out there today when I got a call from the dealership (which is open on Sunday surprisingly) and now I'm putting the brakes on the purchase.

    Part of the deal I acquired last night was to include splash guards and some all-weather mats in the price of the car, and today the salesperson agreed to do that since the car is still over invoice a bit. Then before we ended the conversation he told me that the dealership charges a $498 "Conveyance" fee for all purchases which he says is required by law (I just researched it and the only thing the dealership is required to do is post a sign saying they charge these fees and what they charge. Its a charge the dealerships themselves comes up with but he made it seem like it was a one-time fee all dealerships charge that Connecticut themselves requires them to charge)

    Seems kinda shady to me. He's supposed to email me again tomorrow about the car, I'm going to stick to my guns...either give me the price you quoted me and include this "bogus" fee in the price of $29,200 or just keep the car.

    He also mentioned that the "Competitive Rebate" that is available in my region only applies to GM vehicles, NOT to other makes/models. I researched Ford's website and they mention nothing about the car only needing to be a GM product. I'm not trusting these people right now...

    I live in Wisconsin, only drive stick shift cars and I'm willing to drive out there to get the car BUT if the pricing isn't good (and right now the dealership looks mighty shady) I'm gonna pass on it. A dealership in my area has the exact car with the exact same options as the model out in Connecticut, but its an AUTOMATIC

    Anybody have any dealings with Columbia Ford or any dealings buying a car in Connecticut before? The car is exactly what I want down to the options...but Im not just going to give away $500 just for the hell of it.

    Considering the manual transmission is dead for 2015, I'm not paying anymore than the $24500-25500 total for the car. I'm not going to budge a bit!

    Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,645
    edited August 10

    I'd pay up to $200 conveyance fee, and that's it. This is just another dealer "pack"--it's for doing the DMV paperwork.

    The "law" the dealer is referring to is this law, which applies to the dealer (see below). Obviously, this law was written to curtail abuses by the dealer.

    "The State of Connecticut has also mandated that a sign be posted where sales transactions are processed containing the following information: The amount of the conveyance or processing fee The services performed for such fee That the fee is not payable to the State of Connecticut That the buyer, where appropriate, may elect to submit the documentation for registration and transfer of ownership to the DMV and that the amount of the fee will be proportionately reduced by that election. (NOTE: If the vehicle purchase requires the listing of a lienholder, the customer may not elect to submit the documentation.) Sign specifications per Connecticut State Regulation: The sign’s overall size is 36” x 26” The top line of print is 125-point bold and underlined The next five lines are 48-point bold The last line is 60-point bold"

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  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,322
    edited August 10

    I read where one guy saw "ADP - $500" on his contract after negotiating a low price, and when pressed about it the the sales person sheepishly admitted it stood for "Additional Dealer Profit".

    Keep sharp out there America!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,412

    Max, depends what is important. Getting the car you want, or that last few hundred $$. If you are willing to go all the way to Ct. for one, you obviously are very picky.

    so, unless you are willing to compromise a bit to take a unit elsewhere, not sure how much real leverage you have.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 3,059

    maxamillion85

    Just read your post . Under no circumstance do you drive out of state to buy a vehicle without a signed buyers order. This can be done by fax. You need something in writing from the Int. sales mgr. If a dealer wont due this for you tell them you will take your business elsewhere.

    Tell this dealer you will leave a credit card deposit to show you are a serious buyer till you could get to there dealership to pick up vehicle.

    2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2013 Accord EXL V-6, 2012 BMW x-5, 2012 ML350

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    edited August 11

    A guy over at driveaccord.net says he picked up a 2014 Accord Sport 6MT for 20k flat + taxes and fees! Wow that's a bargain for that car. What a steal. Wonder what I could get for my 2008 in trade....?

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740

    I just bought a brand new 2014 Porsche 911 Turbo for $22.

    See how that works? :)

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,889

    @maxamillion85

    I live in CT, but have never had any dealings with this dealer, nor do I even know where Columbia, CT is. What I can tell you about conveyance fees is that they are real. The dealer has to charge it to everyone. Which just means they have to "show" it on the bill of sale. So like so many on edmunds have said before, go in with an "out the door offer." They have to sell YOU a car. It does them no good sitting on their lot. Just tell them to take an extra $498 off the price of the car.

    Now on the flip side. If you have your heart set on this "rare bird," and you have to have a stick shift, what is an extra $500 in the long run? Or if its the best deal you can get on the car you want, in a year you won't miss it. Either way, keep us in the loop & good luck!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Premium

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