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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017
    edited August 29

    They sell about the same number as Subaru sells of the Legend. Neither are their respective brands best sellers. Why doesn't Subaru sell more?? Because they are a small manufacturer with maybe 1/5(or even less) the number of dealerships as the big boys. Same as Mazda. People forget that.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310
    edited August 29

    @ab348 said: So why are they not selling? There must be a reason, but I never hear why. Do they suffer from the NVH issues that plague the 3?

    I have not heard that NVH was at "plague" levels on the 3. :o I read Motortrend and C/D, and not one article has mentioned NVH problems. Can you point out where you heard or read that?

    I drove a black GT when my car was in for service. I walked across the street to the Mazda store, and in less than 10 mins I was on 66 doing 70. It has a really nice growl to the engine, and it sounds refined all the way up to redline. It was easy to place the wheels, the steering was quick and the grip confidence inspiring. Back in the Kia 30 mins later, and it is just numb. Not bad per say, just nothing at all special in the dynamics department.

    I think I am going to have a very hard time affording a BMW or Audi that has anything close to the levels of equipment the 6 has. I am not going to fork over good $ for pretentiousness or a badge either.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 2,119

    @cski said: I have not heard that NVH was at "plague" levels on the 3. :o I read Motortrend and C/D, and not one article has mentioned NVH problems. Can you point out where you heard or read that?

    Pretty much from anyone who owns one, eithe rface to face or online in forums, etc. Some of the boy-racer types like it and find it sporty, but many find it too rough and noisy for a compact sedan and seem to get tired of having to put up with it day in and day out. If you never read that in a review, then maybe my suspicions about most reviews being puff pieces are correct.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310

    I will ask my neighbor whenever I catch him. He has a 2.5 liter 3 that he got about 6 months ago, if that. Curious.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 997

    I think it has more to do with fewer dealerships. I owned a 6 wagon in 2004. That dealership folded so I didn't even drive one this time around.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310
    edited August 30

    @suydam said: I think it has more to do with fewer dealerships. I owned a 6 wagon in 2004. That dealership folded so I didn't even drive one this time around.

    My wife drive a 6 wagon too. Also a 2004. 240 HP V6, very nice looking car inside and out. A/C broke often and usually when we needed it the most. Other than that, Diane drove the crap out of it and it never left her stranded mechanically, but it did go through wheels and tires a little more often than normal.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,989

    Buying by what I want and nit on price, Mazda 6 or accord.

    New Mazda 3 is much improved in terms of nvh

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (mine)

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310

    August sign and drive deals on Optima at local dealer.

    All are zero down...

    1. 2015 Optima LX 39 mo. lease - $249 mo + tax and tags
    2. 2015 Optima EX 39 mo. lease - $299 mo + tax and tags
    3. 2015 Optima SX-T 39 mo. lease - $349 mo + tax and tags

    All are base models, options extra.

    I usually only see LX deals no matter what the car is; and always wonder why more ads don't include teaser rates like this on a car that people can actually live with for 39 months. My car note is $449 on my EX plus $97 for insurance. I am not one to lease cars, but that $349 deal is very attractive on a turbo....even though it is a base turbo.

    Also, on a different topic, my tax bill just arrived with an October 15th due date. It is $369. I know we were talking about tax rates a while back. The DOT value is $16,800.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,906

    @ab348 said: So why are they not selling? There must be a reason, but I never hear why. Do they suffer from the NVH issues that plague the 3?

    I think it has to do more with the fact that it's a Mazda. If the 6 were branded as a Honda or Nissan, it would sell better. Mazda is a fringe brand compared to the others and as such, it considered a risky purchase.

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 997

    I disagree. Mazda has a good reputation. But away from cities there are few dealerships.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,906

    @suydam said: I disagree. Mazda has a good reputation. But away from cities there are few dealerships.

    I'm not saying tha Mazda has a bad reputation. It's just that it's reputation isn't as good as Honda or Toyota. We all have a psychological need to be part of a group and since Mazda is an outlier, it is not as popular.

    Now those that want to be seen as different may gravitate to Mazda. But even there, they are still part of a group - those that want to be seen as different.

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017
    Subaru has a very good reputation but it's sales are also low. Everyone can't be huge. Mazda has way less dealerships and people tend to want their dealership handy during warranty. My wife made the final decision on our Mazda and I can assure you it was not because she wanted to be in any kind of group. She didn't have a clue about Mazda and just liked the way it drove in the test drive.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310
    edited August 30

    I found little info on the Mazda 3 NVH issue. Most reviews stated it was excessive road noise. Mazda really tried to keep the weight down, so it could be just a minimal insulation issue. The motor mounts are fluid filled on all three platform variants so the engine shouldn't be shaking the car apart. NVH is why the inline four was designated a "4 banger" in the first place.

    I also found that the 3 was the 2nd best selling car in Australia 2013, passed only by the Corolla. So, I don't think Mazda is going to fold any time soon. They really did a good job at sharing three models across one platform (Maz3 Maz6 and CX-5), which greatly reduced cost, and they all are top notch cars.

    I also think Subaru did a great job with the new Legacy. It's proportions are right, and it is generally pleasant to look at inside and out. I would save up for the flat 6 if I wanted to do any kind of spirited driving, but speed is not the biggest consideration with loyal Subaru folk. It's the AWD and the promise of returning home safely on icy back roads in the northern States. If I lived in PA,NY,NH,ME or VT I would very much consider one. (and Canada too of course.)

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,906

    @m6user said: My wife made the final decision on our Mazda and I can assure you it was not because she wanted to be in any kind of group. She didn't have a clue about Mazda and just liked the way it drove in the test drive.

    I didn't say everyone bought a Mazda for that reason. But subconsciously, many do buy Mazdas, Subarus or other non-mainstream brands because they consider themselves better than the sheeple that buy Hondas or Toyotas.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,749
    edited August 30

    I don't think that's it at all. I think people buy Subarus and Mazdas because they offer something not offered by Toyota or Honda. Subarus offer AWD of course. Try getting that on a Camry or Accord. And Mazdas offer that fun-to-drive element that's missing from almost every Toyota (including the Camry) and even some Hondas (maybe not so much the Accord, but certainly today's Civic).

    And those differences could also explain why Subarus and Mazdas sell in much smaller numbers than Toyotas and Hondas. How many people really need AWD in a sedan, and are willing to pay a little more for it? How many people (overall, not just people who post here) really look first and foremost for a mid-sized sedan that's fun to drive, vs. having a quiet, smooth ride?

    Now that the Legacy is finally competitive in both price and FE with non-AWD mid-sized cars, it will be interesting to see if sales pick up.

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017
    People that buy less popular cars may like something a little different but I doubt they think they are better than other people. Maybe that's how you think, robr2, but not me.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 997

    Back in the day we bought a Mazda because we couldn't afford a Honda. Now that price advantage isn't there.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310

    He said "sheeple" LOL. It gave me a mental image of lines of people, all wearing gray and purchasing grey Camry LE's by the thousand....

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,836

    Didn't get all the details, but I saw a billboard advertising a Camry lease for $57 a month! I'm sure the 'sheeple' are lining up for that one! :)

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,749

    I hate those kind of lease ads. I saw one like that in today's paper, for a Mitsubishi. Of course, there's a humongous down payment + TTL. I stick to the zero-out-of-pocket leases myself. One big reason I lease cars sometimes is to minimize my up-front costs.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310
    edited August 31

    @explorerx4 said: Didn't get all the details, but I saw a billboard advertising a Camry lease for $57 a month! I'm sure the 'sheeple' are lining up for that one! :)

    Like flies to a light bulb....

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310
    edited September 1

    These days it is impossible to watch TV without seeing at least one car insurance commercial during EVERY break. Sometimes there are three adverts per break.

    With that said; how much are you guys paying for car insurance on your mid-size, and have any of you shopped around recently and found an extra-awesome low rate?

    I will start out. I was a loyal Progressive customer and was paying $124 until I switched to Liberty Mutual 6 months ago. Now I am at $97 with one ticket 2 years ago.

    In related advert news, I now hate the Acura TLX commercial more than any other. I believe it includes a bad punk rock band doing a cover...a really bad cover, of Frank Sinatra's "I did it my way".

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,017

    Rates vary so much city to city, state to state. Then you have to consider the car itself....age, original sticker etc. Other variables are coverages, deductible, age of drivers(s), gender, marital status, driving record, teenage drivers, miles driven, etc. etc. Comparisons are almost useless.. Maybe there is forum within Edmunds that actually discusses this topic.

    We pay about $1500 a year for 3 cars worth about $45k at this time with full collision, $500 deductible and two adult drivers with no tickets or accidents in last 10 years. I don't think that would help you much though. See what I mean.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310

    @m6user said: Rates vary so much city to city, state to state. Then you have to consider the car itself....age, original sticker etc. Other variables are coverages, deductible, age of drivers(s), gender, marital status, driving record, teenage drivers, miles driven, etc. etc. Comparisons are almost useless.. Maybe there is forum within Edmunds that actually discusses this topic.

    We pay about $1500 a year for 3 cars worth about $45k at this time with full collision, $500 deductible and two adult drivers with no tickets or accidents in last 10 years. I don't think that would help you much though. See what I mean.

    Yes, I get it. I was kind of hoping for a range. I take it most of us are over 30 but under 60, have one ticket or less, and own one car in this class that is being financed.

    I was a Progressive guy for 5 years, and was always able to get them to match other quotes...but in the end they were $30 higher than Liberty Mutual so I switched.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,749

    You switched for $30? Wow. I've had Progressive for a couple years now, switched from Farmers after many years because I got a much better deal with Progressive. I've been pleasantly surprised by the service I've received from Progressive. One thing I like about them is they don't ding me for every accident, e.g. my 18-year-old daughter bumped a car in a parking lot a few months ago (it just happened to be an E Class), and I asked Progressive if that would increase my rates. They told me "accidents happen" and since I was a loyal customer it wouldn't impact my rates. I recently got a quote from another insurance company that touted a "special deal" they have for people from my company. It was double what Progressive charges me. I've also compared Geico and they couldn't get close to the Progressive rates. FWIW I also got Progressive (i.e. Ameriprise) for my homeowner's insurance because they saved me a ton of money over what Farmers was going to charge me, and got better coverage to boot. Had one claim on that, last year, for water damage, and not only did the settlement more than cover my costs, but Progressive refunded my deductible because they went after the manufacturer of the dishwasher that broke (out of warranty) and got a settlement from them.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310
    edited September 1

    I still shouldn't be dinged "because of my history". With three kids to put through college $30 a month saved is $30 a month earned. BTW, when I switched they offered me $124 to come back....but wouldn't budge on the $141 I was really paying until they got a cancellation notice. Like I said, I was loyal for 5 years, knowing I was paying too much. That is long enough considering the accident wasn't in any way my fault. BTW backy, they do a lot of marketing to make you feel special, with their "silver, gold, and platinum" customer status. That is all horse*&^%. If you want to really feel special you should get a smaller bill, and know they will replace my car with one 1 model year newer and with 15k fewer miles.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,726

    You didn't say $30/month. We thought it was $30/year.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,749

    Yes, $30 a month is real money... $1 a day. I have 3 kids to put through college also (2 down, 1 to go) so I understand that. If "Platinum" were just marketing, I'd agree with you, but forgiving an at-fault accident that must have cost them at least $5000 total for both cars backs up their marketing. And I've found their claim service to be fast, and convenient. Had hail damage on my wife's Sonata last year, and I simply drove about a mile to a temporary claims center they'd set up, got the estimate, and they asked me, "Do you want us to repair it for you (PDR) right now?" They had brought in a PDR unit. I said, sure. They drove me home, and took care of the car that day. And their PDR provider gave me a nice deal that cut my deductible in half. The other two claims I've had, both on my daughter's car (one her fault) were also handled with no muss, no fuss.

    All I'm saying is, it would take me more than $1 a day to switch if I were happy with how I'd been treated overall. Which is why I stayed with Farmers for so long. But when I found out Progressive would save me $2000 a year on car insurance and about $800 a year on homeowner's insurance, it was easy to say farewell to my long-time Farmers agent.

  • suydamsuydam Posts: 997

    That's good. You're happy with the coverage. If you get consistent premium raises AND so-so service, you would be more motivated to look elsewhere.

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,310

    Right now my situation is different. Just me driving for another year and a half. That switch to Lib-Mu allowed me to pay my property tax on the car...a pretty good deal right there.

    Would you pay Capital One or whoever an extra $30 a month in fee's? Heck no. Paying for an accident you may never have is to me gambling. I like money in the bank.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

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