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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Right. And those changes included: entirely different exterior; entirely different interior; much different size, inside and out; different powertrain choices; different wheels; different electronics (audio/entertainment, security etc.); different suspension tuning (and parts?). What was the same? Looks like (part of) the floorpan, some sharing of engines... what else? Oh yes... some paint colors.

    "Distant cousins" is a much more accurate description. But not just now... also as of the debut of the Fusion in 2005.

    If you want to talk about "virtually identical" in an accurate fashion, here's one that I can agree with: Fusion and Milan. Pretty much identical except minor styling and trim choices.
  • mtnman1mtnman1 Westerville, OhioPosts: 382
    edited October 2010
    Backy, wasn't the Fusion the larger of the two? I own a 2009 Fusion SEL V6 and it seems to me that compared to my Boss' Mazda 6 which was a 2008 that my fusion had more interior room especially rear legroom.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    edited October 2010
    entirely different interior

    Different in appearance. Location of HVAC vents, location of power control switches are in the exact same place.

    different powertrain choices

    Same engines / different tranny's.

    different electronics

    The basic electrical system was the same. They even shared the same ECU

    different suspension tuning (and parts?).

    Same rear end suspension (E-Type Multilink), Similar front suspension

    What we saw with the 1st Fusion and 1st Mazda6 is similar to what you see with the new Sonata and Kia Optima. The look different and feel different, but, from an engineering stand point, they are almost identical. I'm sorry, but, deciding what sheet metal is on the car, or how stiff a suspension is does not make cars "distant cousins".

    If you don't want to believe what I am saying, I really don't care. With working for Mazda for many years and having talked to engineers, corporate executives and countless other Mazda insiders as well as being associated with a Ford, I do know a little more then the average person.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    You can see the bones of the Mazda 6, but the Fusion is a lot bigger all the way around.
    If the Fusion was a jacket, you have to take it off to see the shirt (Mazda 6) underneath.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Location of vents in the same place? You mean, one in each corner and some in the center? With the audio system below, and the HVAC controls below that? Like on almost every sedan on the road today? Note the original Mazda6's center vents are actually lower than the original Fusion's to allow for the LED display... which the Fusion doesn't have, at least not centered on the upper dash. No, the Fusion's display is in the instrument cluster. And the Fusion's HVAC controls are maddeningly blocked by the shifter, whereas the Mazda6's are a bit higher, and bigger, and easier to grab.

    Location of power control switches? Where would you expect them to be, on the roof? Or trunklid, perhaps? Note the huge difference in controls--audio system, HVAC, of course the steering wheel and its controls, and the instrument cluster.

    Re powertrain, as you noted, the cars have different trannies, plus the Fusion has an AWD powertrain option and the Mazda6 doesn't. And the fours aren't really "identical", although the Fusion's 2.3L Duratec is based on the MZR. (In the latest Fusion and Mazda6, the 2.5L fours are identical, from what I've heard. But this is about the original Mazda6 and Fusion.)

    Perhaps the different front suspension is responsible for the different ride/handling of the two cars.

    To me, having almost everything on a car be different except a partial floorpan, engines (and even those aren't exactly the same), some suspension parts, and some electrical components doesn't make them "virtually identical" as you asserted. "Distant cousins", yes. Some shared DNA, but they look/act much different.

    The Mazda6 and Focus are no more "virtually identical" than the 2011 Sonata and 2011 Optima are virtually identical. They are much different cars, with some shared parts. Actually, the Sonata and Optima have more in common than the original Mazda6 and Fusion. At least the Sonata and Optima share their entire powertrains.

    Your working for Mazda for many years doesn't make you any less susceptible to hyperbole than the next person, it appears. ;-)
  • This matches exactly what I understand/see from looking at the cars with my own eyes and with what I've read when researching the Mazda6.

    I know for sure that the original Fusion was a Mazda6 with pretty much only cosmetic differences other than a stretched frame...otherwise, the differences were less than you could have within trim levels of the same car (different transmission...)

    I was under the impression that the increased size of the current Mazda6 made it even closer to the current Fusion, but I could be wrong about that.

    But I absolutely, 100% see the current Mazda6 in these pictures originally linked in this post.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Well, I hate to break it to ya, but that's a Ford Mondeo body over the new Fusion's chassis. The exterior isn't really what you should expect for the final product; it's a current Mondeo.

    image
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,666
    Ford started with a Mazda6 and both widened and lengthened it for the CD3 Fusion then added unique sheetmetal and interior. They shared basic engine components, electrical architecture, hvac, etc. So maybe first cousins would be more appropriate than "distant" cousins or clones.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Posts: 804
    edited October 2010
    1. How long do you think Toyota will continue this plan?

    2. How soon until other manufacturers offer similar plans? Or will they not follow suit?

    3. Gimmick or smart marketing? How would you compare this program to what Hyundai did with offering their 10yr/100K warranty? Same goal or different?

    Toyota Free Maintenance Plan

    Let's hear your thoughts.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    1. This is probably worth about $300 or so. If they find it increases sales they will probably keep it for some time. If not, it will go away quickly(see answer to #3)

    2. Don't think others will follow suit.

    3. Gimmick. Not even close to the Hyundai warranty. Toyota is just trying to create some positive buzz....Hyundai did it for survival.
  • I know that.

    But the similarities are remarkable.
  • rdm925rdm925 Posts: 46
    Hello kcokie,
    After all the discussion back and forth, did you make a decision on which car to buy? :shades:
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,626
    Backy, need your help over in the Chevy Cruze discussion...turning into a "pissing match" over there. Sorry to come in here to find ya, but need your expertise!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    edited October 2010
    When I bought my Fusion, I got free oil changes for life.
    7 oil change/tire rotations, plus 2 air filters and 2 set of wipers: $200.
    I guess the maintenance plan evens up the Toyota dealers.
    Good opportunity to sneak in some secret fixes too. 'plbt'
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    cept your plan was from the dealer....this is a nationwide program from Toyota. Still a gimmick though.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    My point is, the dealer does not have to offer it. It does cost the dealer real money for 5 quarts of oil, a filter, and the labor.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    Didn't I state that what Toyota is doing is probably worth about $300? That's real money too and they don't have to do it but it's still a gimmick. In the whole scheme of things I firmly believe they'll be recouping that money one way or the other.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    I'm honored you would ask me to "come over" to the Cruze discussion, but my time is kinda limited now. I will say, since the Cruze is technically mid-sized by interior space, it looks like GM's best U.S.-offered compact yet. But at a big bump in price over the Cobalt. Can't wait to drive one when I begin my next car search... but that won't be for awhile. Hopefully some will turn up in rental fleets--instead of those Cobalts.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    Gimmick. Check the "official" Toyota maintenance schedule. What is required over the first 25k miles? A few oil changes, maybe a filter or two. Not a whole lot. Compare that to, say, my local Hyundai/Kia dealer that offers free oil changes for life on all new cars--and that's based on the severe service schedule, e.g. every 3750 miles. There's many dealerships in my town that offer this perk.

    No, I don't see the Toyota free maintenance plan as being any big deal. But certainly better than nothing. I'd much rather they bump up the warranty to match the likes of Hyundai, Kia, and Mitsubishi. Toyota supposedly makes very reliable cars, so a longer warranty should cost them almost nothing, right?

    P.S. Note VW's plan includes 3 years/36k miles of maintenance. Much better deal than Toyota's plan. But I'd rather have the longer warranty with VW also.
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