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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • dash5dash5 Posts: 417
    I'm seeing the Buick pop up all over with comparisons to the Sonata 2.0T. They are pretty close in price and offer turbo 4's instead of a V6. I think a lot of people will cross shop them.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    edited October 2010
    I agree with you. There is only about a 2k price difference in the Sonata LTD turbo and the Regal CXL turbo and they are equipped very similar with both having a couple of pluses that the other doesn't. With the Sonata you get better mpg and power and with the Buick you get a tighter, euro type handling drive and a little more upscale interior from a materials aspect. Warranties are even somewhat similar but obviously the Hyundai holds the lead there.

    Just because Buick markets itself as the next premium brand, I think it's still in the inbetween land and will be looked at by both mainstream midsize buyers and premium brand buyers looking to save a few bucks. Don't know if either will buy it though....that the big question.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    My wife is interested in the Regal (to replace the Altima). She is looking for an "upscale" type sedan, and she loved the Aura. Besides the exit of Saturn, the Aura wasn't available with a manual (the Altima is a 2.5S 6-speed manual), and both engines on the Regal will be available with a manual (and a bold move for Buick, of which I commend them).

    Buick is indeed an "in-between" brand, not mainstream (Chevy), but not luxury (Cadillac). Yet, GM has a ton of potential to make Buick a household name again, catching the attention of performance-oriented buyers (Pontiac) as well as trying to keep current Saturn owners within the GM family. Its going to take a LOT of work to convince buyers that Buicks aren't just for the retired set, but the Regal IMO is a step in the right direction.
  • dash5dash5 Posts: 417
    Purely on paper the Sonata/Optima twins look like the better buy. Less expensive, more power, better FE, more room, more tech. Better warranty). More color choices. Styling is subjective but I like the Optima better than the Regal.

    For the Buick, the interior looks really nice in pictures, the test drive reviews I've read have been very favorable in the case of the turbo. It's been around as a Insignia for a while, but then again it's significantly reworked in the US form from what I've read.

    Again though that is on paper. A lot of reviews mention the refinement and feel of the Buick and that counts for a lot in my book.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    Again though that is on paper. A lot of reviews mention the refinement and feel of the Buick and that counts for a lot in my book.

    I agree, it counts a lot in mine too. I really like the looks of the Regal as it kind of reminds me a lot of the Infiniti G. I really can't say I like the Optima better because I've only seen it in pictures. The Regal didn't really wow me in pictures but when I saw it in person I liked it alot. Hopefully, the Optima will wow both in pictures and up close and personal. From everhthing I've read, most reviewers have been wowed when seeing it in person even after liking the pictures.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    Though, don't necessarily confuse praise over Buick's first decent vehicle in a decade or two over anything resembling true class and refinement.
  • ahossa1ahossa1 Posts: 51
    I test drove both the Regal and the Sonata and I prefer the Regal because it has a solid feel, more than the Sonata, it's very quiet car, a lot quieter than the Sonata. Where the sonata excels is the price point, fuel efficency and style. That turbo engine that the Sonata will have and still be fuel efficent (22 MPG) is going to be a huge deal maker for a lot of people. That's will be the sweet spot for a lot of enthusiasts.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    You're very negative. The Enclave has been praised and has/is doing very well. The LaCrosse is also doing well and now the Regal. Buick has been near the top of JD Powers quality surveys for several years. There has been duds too but all in all they are showing a fair amount of promise.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Buick has been near the top of JD Powers quality surveys for several years.

    Because mee-maw couldn't hear the whine in the transmission that was about to blow. ;)

    Kidding aside, doesn't JD take into account things like "I don't like the cupholder design" or "I wish they'd left the bench seat option alone?"
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,952
    I guess they take into account the same things they do when they rate all manufacturers. Not an expert on how they do things or necessarily an advocate of their process but it seems to be a fairly respected firm that all automakers reference in their ads if they are at or near the top of the ratings.

    I just don't like blanket statements that are based on old news. I'm not even a Buick or GM advocate but bashing is just a waste of time IMO.

    But transmissions are probably one of GMs better efforts over the years. I'd take a GM auto tranny over a Honda auto tranny any day.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I've heard so many 3800 and 4300 GM engines whining like a toddler wanting his toy that I just associate them with transmission failure. Maybe they don't fail, but rather make the noise.

    I trust the 4-cyl Honda transmission, but I wouldn't want a V6 Honda, after personal experiences with them and stories I've read. They made strides in "making it right" with the customers but still, a problem's a problem.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,737
    I trust the 4-cyl Honda transmission, but I wouldn't want a V6 Honda, after personal experiences with them and stories I've read. They made strides in "making it right" with the customers but still, a problem's a problem.

    Well, I just turned 100K on my 2005 Acura TL and no tranny problems yet! Also no repairs (other than battery, tires, brakes) at all during the first 100K, other than a door handle cap and the exterior temp sensor recall.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    I test drove both the Regal and the Sonata and I prefer the Regal because it has a solid feel, more than the Sonata, it's very quiet car, a lot quieter than the Sonata.

    Well, it IS a better vehicle. You would expect a Mercedes to be engineered a little better than a Mazda. Of course, that doesn't keep either from making turds from time to time.

    You're very negative. The Enclave has been praised and has/is doing very well. The LaCrosse is also doing well and now the Regal. Buick has been near the top of JD Powers quality surveys for several years. There has been duds too but all in all they are showing a fair amount of promise.

    True, GM is doing better all the time. But go drive a BMW 3 series or the G25. There's a world of difference between proven long-term success that nobody is talking about in the press as it's just old news versus GM making an above average car and not falling on its face again. Well, the lack of a turbo right off is a major "oops" - by the time it gets here, 90% of the novelty will have worn off.

    The G25 is a radial game-changer, though. It crushes the entire marketplace. A Regal or a G25. Go drive both and honestly tell me if you don't feel like something is wrong that you can't quite put your finger on with the Buick.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    That turbo engine that the Sonata will have and still be fuel efficent (22 MPG) is going to be a huge deal maker for a lot of people. That's will be the sweet spot for a lot of enthusiasts.

    Not if the enthusiast like to turn a corner, apparently.

    IL just road-tested a Sonata SE 2.0T (the SE having a sportier suspension than the GLS), and despite being impressed with the turbo 4 and braking, body roll was "noticeable", and the steering felt "artificial" and provided minimal feedback. The author suggested offering a "sport package" to better match the suspension to the engine.

    Considering that most enthusiasts I know (if not all of them) like to cut a few tight apexes when driving on a windy stretch of two-lane highway, they'd probably want a little more than the 2.0T can offer.

    I wonder if the new Optima will do better in the handling department, since it already spanks the Sonata in looks alone...
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    A Regal or a G25. Go drive both and honestly tell me if you don't feel like something is wrong that you can't quite put your finger on with the Buick.

    Not a fair comparison, since the G25 is in an entirely different class as well as RWD (not to mention the not-so-small price difference a semi-loaded G25 will cost compared to the Regal). I've heard the Regal matches well to the Acura TSX, although I haven't driven a Regal yet to find out for myself...

    As stated before, it seems to be a good "in-between" sedan, comparing well to the more-expensive midsize offerings, while saving a few $$$ compared to Acura and Audi. Does it compare to a G25? No way. But then again, I'm not expecting it to.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    People wanting luxury aren't wed to FWD or RWD, so that's not a huge factor. (if anything, RWD is preferred these days). They are roughly the same size and cost.

    The thing is, they ARE in the same segment because there is considerable price overlap.(as with the TSX) Even without the turbo added, which will cost considerably more, your options are stripped out rental or properly optioned at 30-32K. It's just GM missing the mark again.

    The TSX and G25 come standard with the equivalent of GM's 2nd to top trim level, with nearly every option added as their *base* models, which forces the issue, since GM's cars optioned out to match them are the same price. Nobody who buys a Regal wants a stripped-down rental, either. So the dealers are all only ordering ones that are in the 28-30K range as a minimum. Then charging full MSRP.

    Shoot, a properly optioned-out Chevy Cruze is 27K. Something is just simply wrong with GM's pricing.
  • daneeldaneel Posts: 19
    Agree with you, tlong. My 2004 Accord EX V6 with automatic transmission has been superb over the past 58,000 miles, no problems, never "gear hunting", and as smooth as the day I bought the car. I will buy another V6 Accord without hesitation.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,682
    And then there are those millions of drivers who spend their driving lives motoring across the flat prairies of the middle US, or schlepping through rush-hour traffic on urban highways, and will never get close to using the full handling capability of even the most mundane mid-sized sedans.

    You might try actually driving the 2.0T before saying that the car will leave all enthusiasts wanting. Of course, it's possible all enthusiasts would rather be driving a Porsche than a mid-sized family sedan...
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    edited October 2010
    And then there are those millions of drivers who spend their driving lives motoring across the flat prairies of the middle US, or schlepping through rush-hour traffic on urban highways, and will never get close to using the full handling capability of even the most mundane mid-sized sedans.

    You're right, but the vast majority of those millions don't consider themselves "enthusiasts".

    You might try actually driving the 2.0T before saying that the car will leave all enthusiasts wanting.

    I don't remember saying anything of the sort, I do recall stating that apparently, the 2.0T isn't geared toward enthusiasts that may also put a premium on handling. I will most likely take a 2.0T out for a test-drive soon, but it doesn't mean I can't read what other people have said about it.

    Of course, it's possible all enthusiasts would rather be driving a Porsche than a mid-sized family sedan...

    True, but it's also possible most enthusiasts can't afford a Porsche as a second (or third) car, and they also don't want to be stuck driving an "appliance" just because they need a reasonably-priced 4-door.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    So the dealers are all only ordering ones that are in the 28-30K range as a minimum. Then charging full MSRP.

    Well there's your problem. :P Anyone that pays full MSRP on a GM vehicle isn't really dealing with a full deck anyway. :)

    I'll bet that you'll be able to bargain a better price on a Regal easier than an Infiniti or Acura...
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